I've been playing Talisman Digital with City and Nether Realm expansions, using The Gauntlet ending (which seems a good way to make the end game tougher and prolong the game a little requiring tougher characters).

I have been able to use Hopper to "hop" each Nether card in the Inner Region to bypass all encounters in a single turn until the Crown of Command space (where I was able to use the Merchant power to bribe a big Monster to go away); and I've used Stompy to "stomp" each card in the Inner Region to avoid each Nether Realm encounter, including one of the two cards at the Crown of Command.

Are these legal moves? The pets in question are quite strong all over the board but the ability to bypass so much in the Inner Region seems utterly broken.

Good question. I would say yes, it's by the rules. But as you point out - it's not much fun and I would house rule against it.

Yep, and not really a major problem. Players have to draw a pet, pay more if they have more pets and also get there in the city going one way. Also other players can kill or take their pet (and lets face it if someone does draw hopper when you have The Gauntlet ending its soon becomes all on to one).

Stompy says once you have finished moving you may discard a card on your space. I would not consider each "hop" to be a move, as hoppy says you may CONTINUE moving in the same direction, not take another turn.

More importantly the gauntlet says:

If he fails to successfully encounter a card, his turn ends immediately and he must encounter the card again on his next turn unless he decides to turn back.

Easy enough to argue that attempting to use hoppy is failing to encounter the card on the space and ends that characters turn immediately. In my house it wouldnt fly that you can skip the whole inner region, and if you are playing with people that would try for such thing that's just sorry sportsmanship, what fun is that ?

Stompy says once you have finished moving you may discard a card on your space. I would not consider each "hop" to be a move, as hoppy says you may CONTINUE moving in the same direction, not take another turn.

More importantly the gauntlet says:

If he fails to successfully encounter a card, his turn ends immediately and he must encounter the card again on his next turn unless he decides to turn back.

Easy enough to argue that attempting to use hoppy is failing to encounter the card on the space and ends that characters turn immediately. In my house it wouldnt fly that you can skip the whole inner region, and if you are playing with people that would try for such thing that's just sorry sportsmanship, what fun is that ?

Yeah Stompy says " After you have finished moving, you may discard 1 Adventure Card on your space ". So that's once you finish your move but Hopper is " Whenever you land on a space " so its right that this allows a player to hop all the way to the COC given that landing on a space and encountering a space are two different things and allow effects to be triggered and played in between.

Sure its " Easy enough to argue that attempting to use hoppy is failing to encounter the card " but its also easy enough to argue that bananas are apples, this does not of course mean its right it just means you can argue it. Also I do not think its a case of bad sportsmanship there are tons of cards and effects that are just as good with the right ending or game effect.

If you think that when forced to answer this question anyone at ffg that worked on this game would say "yes, we absolutely intended and think it's in the spirit / flow of the game to use a stupid pet card to bypass the entire alternative ending" then I cannot help you. It says plain as day if you fail to encounter the card you don't move on... What else can they do to make sure someone doesn't think something like this is within the rules? Way too often some of you guys don't use your brains it's ridiculous.

If you think that when forced to answer this question anyone at ffg that worked on this game would say "yes, we absolutely intended and think it's in the spirit / flow of the game to use a stupid pet card to bypass the entire alternative ending" then I cannot help you. It says plain as day if you fail to encounter the card you don't move on... What else can they do to make sure someone doesn't think something like this is within the rules? Way too often some of you guys don't use your brains it's ridiculous.

But when is a character considered to have the chance or choice to encounter a card. You say "as soon as the character lands on the space in which the card is" this can't be so. There has to be a gap in between landing on a space and encountering cards on a space or the space itself in which a character is not considered to be encountering anything.

This is because of the many effects a character can do , is forced to do or choose to do before encountering anything, just because you land somewhere does not mean you had the opportunity to encounter the space or cards there. This comes up time and time again in the rules.

Why do you have to say " Way too often some of you guys don't use your brains it's ridiculous " that's just plain insulting. If you have a point then back it up with proof in the rules or reason your point within the confines of the rules - do not insult others, that's just childish.

I've backed it up plenty, and I'm sorry if it offends you but it is utterly Stupid with a capital S to think that a pet gets you through the gauntlet, no way no how, if you disagree more power to you.

I agree with Uvatha. You can do it but I also think it's stupid and a flaw in the design. If you treat the cards as they're drawn and not already on the space you get around the problem, I think.

I've backed it up plenty, and I'm sorry if it offends you but it is utterly Stupid with a capital S to think that a pet gets you through the gauntlet, no way no how, if you disagree more power to you.

Other than saying what The Gauntlet text says you have not backed up nothing. Got a example or statement in the rules that will back your point up?

This a very obvious design flaw (as has already been pointed out), and every time that I try to rationalize one side or the other in my head (or in a post), I wind up convincing myself that the other side is right. These cards are in obvious conflict with each other. Hopper allows you to avoid encountering cards. The Gauntlet is designed to force you to encounter cards.

Seeing as Hopper was released before The Gauntlet, I would like to think that the developers considered Hopper's existence when they were putting this together. Then again, Hopper is a single card, and it would be very difficult to analyze every single card combination with this particular ending. Then again, there are other cards that allow you to avoid encountering cards in play, so hopefully the concept of not encountering cards was considered in the development of The Gauntlet.

In this particular discussion, the benefit of the doubt must be given to the intent of The Gauntlet coupled with the explicit wording on the card. The intent of The Gauntlet is to have you encounter Nether Realm cards on each space as well as each space of the inner region. Bypassing all of this is not within the spirit of the ending. And seeing as the ending explicitly states, "A character [. . .] must encounter the cards on each space before encountering the space" then I would argue that any method of bypassing the spaces of the inner region is out of order.

That means that there is no teleporting from the Plain of Peril to the Crown of Command.

That means that Hopper cannot be used.

That means that defeating the Lord of Darkness in the Dungeon at best can only teleport you to the Plain of Peril.

To win a game where The Gauntlet is in play, a player MUST go through the inner region one space at a time.

This is one of those issues that should be clarified in a FAQ update. It could also easily be mitigated if Hopper was limited to one hop per turn.

The must encounter a card on each space before encountering the space refreace is what it is, not that characters have to encounter cards as soon as they land on the space they are in. Otherwise The Gaunlet would of said "characters cannot choose to move passed spaces they land on without encountering Neither Cards placed like this" or along thoughs lines.

The must encounter a card on each space before encountering the space refreace is what it is, not that characters have to encounter cards as soon as they land on the space they are in. Otherwise The Gaunlet would of said "characters cannot choose to move passed spaces they land on without encountering Neither Cards placed like this" or along thoughs lines.

Seeing as evading a creature is a successful encounter, the wording permits evasions. If worded the way that you proposed, evasions would not be possible.

But Hopper is not evading. Neither is Arknell or the Lord of Darkness. Those are simply bypassing the encounters altogether.

The apparent intent of The Gauntlet is that encounters take place, not that encounters be avoided.

I think the best way would be change Hopper from:

Whenever you land on a space with a card or character, you may move to the next space continuing in the same direction you were moving (clockwise or counterclockwise).

to:

Whenever you land on a space with a FACE UP ADVENTURE CARD or character, you may move to the next space continuing in the same direction you were moving (clockwise or counterclockwise).

and change Stompy from:

After you have finished moving, you may discard 1 Adventure Card on your space.

to:

After you have finished moving, you may discard 1 FACE UP ADVENTURE CARD on your space.

If Hopper can move over all cards and characters does this also count for Terrain, Denizen and (face down) Remnant cards?

Seeing as evading a creature is a successful encounter, the wording permits evasions. If worded the way that you proposed, evasions would not be possible.

But Hopper is not evading. Neither is Arknell or the Lord of Darkness. Those are simply bypassing the encounters altogether.

The apparent intent of The Gauntlet is that encounters take place, not that encounters be avoided.

I'm not understanding you here because evading creatures is not allowed anyway in the inner region. Hopper is not bypassing the encounter its moving before you have a encounter. The "intent" of The Gaunlet does not match up to its rules, if players think its intent is wrong they should house rule it.

Seeing as evading a creature is a successful encounter, the wording permits evasions. If worded the way that you proposed, evasions would not be possible.

But Hopper is not evading. Neither is Arknell or the Lord of Darkness. Those are simply bypassing the encounters altogether.

The apparent intent of The Gauntlet is that encounters take place, not that encounters be avoided.

I'm not understanding you here because evading creatures is not allowed anyway in the inner region. Hopper is not bypassing the encounter its moving before you have a encounter. The "intent" of The Gaunlet does not match up to its rules, if players think its intent is wrong they should house rule it.

You are correct. I had never read the Nether Realm rules (and had forgotten the "no evasion" in the inner region from the base rules, seeing as evasion is never something I need to do at that point anyway).

But still, Hopper IS bypassing the encounter. That's the whole point of Hopper. It's so that you don't have to encounter the card that you land on. Sure, it's moving again. But the premise of The Gauntlet is such that moving again so that you don't encounter the card runs contrary to the intent of the ending. The Gauntlet is intended to make the inner region more difficult. With Hopper, the Inner Region becomes non-existent.

The wording of the card is such that you cannot simply hop your way past the cards in the inner region. You must successfully encounter them all. To do otherwise is a bush-league maneuver that runs contrary to the intent and the wording of The Gauntlet.

For the record, all of the other methods of bypassing the inner region are bush league, too. None of them are allowable in my games. The closest you can get via the Lord of Darkness is the Plain of Peril. No items that permit teleportation are usable in the inner region. Each space is encountered one at a time, and that's it.

And then you have to climb the Dragon Tower.

Seeing as evading a creature is a successful encounter, the wording permits evasions. If worded the way that you proposed, evasions would not be possible.

But Hopper is not evading. Neither is Arknell or the Lord of Darkness. Those are simply bypassing the encounters altogether.

The apparent intent of The Gauntlet is that encounters take place, not that encounters be avoided.

I'm not understanding you here because evading creatures is not allowed anyway in the inner region. Hopper is not bypassing the encounter its moving before you have a encounter. The "intent" of The Gaunlet does not match up to its rules, if players think its intent is wrong they should house rule it.

You are correct. I had never read the Nether Realm rules (and had forgotten the "no evasion" in the inner region from the base rules, seeing as evasion is never something I need to do at that point anyway).

But still, Hopper IS bypassing the encounter. That's the whole point of Hopper. It's so that you don't have to encounter the card that you land on. Sure, it's moving again. But the premise of The Gauntlet is such that moving again so that you don't encounter the card runs contrary to the intent of the ending. The Gauntlet is intended to make the inner region more difficult. With Hopper, the Inner Region becomes non-existent.

The wording of the card is such that you cannot simply hop your way past the cards in the inner region. You must successfully encounter them all. To do otherwise is a bush-league maneuver that runs contrary to the intent and the wording of The Gauntlet.

For the record, all of the other methods of bypassing the inner region are bush league, too. None of them are allowable in my games. The closest you can get via the Lord of Darkness is the Plain of Peril. No items that permit teleportation are usable in the inner region. Each space is encountered one at a time, and that's it.

And then you have to climb the Dragon Tower.

No, the whole point of Hopper is it allows the player to move one space (in the same direction they are moving) when they land on a space with a card. If the player decides to move do they encounter the said card.. No. do they have the chance to encounter the said card.. No.

The wording on The Gauntlet that's key to the Hopper is -

If he fails to successfully encounter a card, his turn ends immediately and he must encounter the card again on his next turn unless he decides to turn back.

So if the player has the chance to encounter the card if they do not encounter it they must encounter the card again on his next turn, unless he decides to turn back. And just landing on a space does not mean you will (or even have the choice to) encounter the space or the cards there in.

So the wording of The Gauntlet and Hopper are both their intent to be played as, because otherwise no-one other than the designers will ever know their intent anything else is someones view, opinion or feeling. Going by both cards wording Hopper does allow a player to hop all the way to the crown when you play with The Gauntlet.

So there is no evade, bypassing, waving goodbye to or just plan cheating.

And I say again "All players are free to change the rules if they are unhappy with the way the game works" so its totally fine that this is not allowed "in your games"

Don't encounter the card, you don't move on. Period. An attempt to justify using hoppy to not encounter the cards is idiot jack assery. The end. Grow up uvatha you're dead wrong.

Don't encounter the card, you don't move on. Period. An attempt to justify using hoppy to not encounter the cards is idiot jack assery. The end. Grow up uvatha you're dead wrong.

Again your being Offensive, there is no need for this behavior. If i'm so "Dead Wrong" please post examples in the rules stating such instead of resorting to name calling and childish remarks.

Here's a clear example what I mean:

This is what it says in the main rule book about a players turn.

The Game Turn

On their game turns, characters move around the board,

usually by the roll of the die but sometimes by the use of

Spells or due to strange beings or places that they have

discovered.

Having moved, characters can then encounter another character

in the space they land on or follow the instructions on the

space. The instructions are often to draw Adventure Cards.

These cards depict the Objects, Enemies, and other things that

the character meets in the space.

Gradually characters will become more powerful, until they

feel that they are strong enough to head for the centre of the

board and attempt to reach the Crown of Command.

More specifically, each player’s turn consists of two parts, in

this order:

1. Movement – The player rolls a die and moves his character

that number of spaces around the board.

2. Encounters – Once a character has finished his move, he

must encounter either the space or a character in the space

where he lands.

At the end of a character’s turn, play passes clockwise to the

player to the left.

So here it stats that Movement and Encounters are two separate parts or phases if you like. With Hopper the question is has the player finished his move? Well, no because the Hopper allows him to move again if there is a card on the space he moved to. Thus he continues his move once he finishes then he encounters. This is a clear example from the rules that justifies why Hopper does indeed work with The Gauntlet.

Don't encounter the card, you don't move on. Period. An attempt to justify using hoppy to not encounter the cards is idiot jack assery. The end. Grow up uvatha you're dead wrong.

Again your being Offensive, there is no need for this behavior. If i'm so "Dead Wrong" please post examples in the rules stating such instead of resorting to name calling and childish remarks.

Here's a clear example what I mean:

This is what it says in the main rule book about a players turn.

The Game Turn

On their game turns, characters move around the board,

usually by the roll of the die but sometimes by the use of

Spells or due to strange beings or places that they have

discovered.

Having moved, characters can then encounter another character

in the space they land on or follow the instructions on the

space. The instructions are often to draw Adventure Cards.

These cards depict the Objects, Enemies, and other things that

the character meets in the space.

Gradually characters will become more powerful, until they

feel that they are strong enough to head for the centre of the

board and attempt to reach the Crown of Command.

More specifically, each player’s turn consists of two parts, in

this order:

1. Movement – The player rolls a die and moves his character

that number of spaces around the board.

2. Encounters – Once a character has finished his move, he

must encounter either the space or a character in the space

where he lands.

At the end of a character’s turn, play passes clockwise to the

player to the left.

So here it stats that Movement and Encounters are two separate parts or phases if you like. With Hopper the question is has the player finished his move? Well, no because the Hopper allows him to move again if there is a card on the space he moved to. Thus he continues his move once he finishes then he encounters. This is a clear example from the rules that justifies why Hopper does indeed work with The Gauntlet.

We're not denying that Hopper has that ability. We're saying that the conditions of The Gauntlet overrule Hopper's ability. Hopper permits you to hop an extra space if there's a card on a space. The Gauntlet forbids you from moving until you successfully encounter the card. The Gauntlet trumps Hopper.

We're not denying that Hopper has that ability. We're saying that the conditions of The Gauntlet overrule Hopper's ability. Hopper permits you to hop an extra space if there's a card on a space. The Gauntlet forbids you from moving until you successfully encounter the card. The Gauntlet trumps Hopper.

So show me where it says on The Gauntlet " you cannot move until you successfully encounter the card ".

It says

• If he fails to successfully encounter a card, his turn ends immediately and he must encounter the card again on his next turn unless he decides to turn back.

So explain why these "trump" Hopper. Because it say nothing about you cannot move passed the card (if you are allowed to) it just says "fails to successfully encounter the card" this is because on the Plain of Peril, the Valley of Fire, and the Crown of Command spaces characters can encounter each other thus they are failing to encounter the card there and thus their turn immediately ends and thus they must encounter the card again next turn or turn back.

Basically its forcing characters to encounter the cards there, when they can encounter them (eg after their move).

We're not denying that Hopper has that ability. We're saying that the conditions of The Gauntlet overrule Hopper's ability. Hopper permits you to hop an extra space if there's a card on a space. The Gauntlet forbids you from moving until you successfully encounter the card. The Gauntlet trumps Hopper.

So show me where it says on The Gauntlet " you cannot move until you successfully encounter the card ".

It says

• If he fails to successfully encounter a card, his turn ends immediately and he must encounter the card again on his next turn unless he decides to turn back.

So explain why these "trump" Hopper. Because it say nothing about you cannot move passed the card (if you are allowed to) it just says "fails to successfully encounter the card" this is because on the Plain of Peril, the Valley of Fire, and the Crown of Command spaces characters can encounter each other thus they are failing to encounter the card there and thus their turn immediately ends and thus they must encounter the card again next turn or turn back.

Basically its forcing characters to encounter the cards there, when they can encounter them (eg after their move).

It's right there in the first condition of the card:

"A character [. . .] must encounter the cards on each space before encountering the space."

The conditions of The Gauntlet are "must" conditions while the ability of Hopper is a "may" ability. This is addressed is the "Can vs. Cannot" section on page 15 of the core rule book.

We're not denying that Hopper has that ability. We're saying that the conditions of The Gauntlet overrule Hopper's ability. Hopper permits you to hop an extra space if there's a card on a space. The Gauntlet forbids you from moving until you successfully encounter the card. The Gauntlet trumps Hopper.

So show me where it says on The Gauntlet " you cannot move until you successfully encounter the card ".

It says

• If he fails to successfully encounter a card, his turn ends immediately and he must encounter the card again on his next turn unless he decides to turn back.

So explain why these "trump" Hopper. Because it say nothing about you cannot move passed the card (if you are allowed to) it just says "fails to successfully encounter the card" this is because on the Plain of Peril, the Valley of Fire, and the Crown of Command spaces characters can encounter each other thus they are failing to encounter the card there and thus their turn immediately ends and thus they must encounter the card again next turn or turn back.

Basically its forcing characters to encounter the cards there, when they can encounter them (eg after their move).

It's right there in the first condition of the card:

"A character [. . .] must encounter the cards on each space before encountering the space."

The conditions of The Gauntlet are "must" conditions while the ability of Hopper is a "may" ability. This is addressed is the "Can vs. Cannot" section on page 15 of the core rule book.

Ok but the character with Hopper is not encountering the space he (or she) is moving. If the character needed or wanted to encounter the space then they must encounter all cards there before the space. Nothing to do with Hopper at all.

The "Can vs. Cannot" Golden Rule is only when one card says must and the another says may and they both trigger at the same time. In this instance they do not trigger at the same time, Hopper is when a character moves after they finish all their moves then the character has the opportunity to encounter.

We're not denying that Hopper has that ability. We're saying that the conditions of The Gauntlet overrule Hopper's ability. Hopper permits you to hop an extra space if there's a card on a space. The Gauntlet forbids you from moving until you successfully encounter the card. The Gauntlet trumps Hopper.

So show me where it says on The Gauntlet " you cannot move until you successfully encounter the card ".

It says

• If he fails to successfully encounter a card, his turn ends immediately and he must encounter the card again on his next turn unless he decides to turn back.

So explain why these "trump" Hopper. Because it say nothing about you cannot move passed the card (if you are allowed to) it just says "fails to successfully encounter the card" this is because on the Plain of Peril, the Valley of Fire, and the Crown of Command spaces characters can encounter each other thus they are failing to encounter the card there and thus their turn immediately ends and thus they must encounter the card again next turn or turn back.

Basically its forcing characters to encounter the cards there, when they can encounter them (eg after their move).

It's right there in the first condition of the card:

"A character [. . .] must encounter the cards on each space before encountering the space."

The conditions of The Gauntlet are "must" conditions while the ability of Hopper is a "may" ability. This is addressed is the "Can vs. Cannot" section on page 15 of the core rule book.

Ok but the character with Hopper is not encountering the space he (or she) is moving. If the character needed or wanted to encounter the space then they must encounter all cards there before the space. Nothing to do with Hopper at all. Next.

This has been your issue this entire discussion. You are completely disregarding the words of the card.

When The Gauntlet says (and I'll emphasize it here for you): "A character [. . .] must encounter the cards on each space before encountering the space" it actually means that a character must encounter both the cards and the space.

I'm done debating this issue with you. You are ignoring the plain text of the card in favor of your own twisted opinion of how the game is played. You are wrong. Period. End of discussion.

This has been your issue this entire discussion. You are completely disregarding the words of the card.

When The Gauntlet says (and I'll emphasize it here for you): "A character [. . .] must encounter the cards on each space before encountering the space" it actually means that a character must encounter both the cards and the space.

I'm done debating this issue with you. You are ignoring the plain text of the card in favor of your own twisted opinion of how the game is played. You are wrong. Period. End of discussion.

And I will "emphasize the whole sentence so you can understand it better."A character [. . .] must encounter the cards on each space before encountering the space " this does not actually mean that a character must encounter both the cards and the space but instead means what it says "A character must encounter the cards on each space before encountering the space.

Funny how you say that "I am ignoring the plain text of the card in favor of your own twisted opinion of how the game is played" because you are taking words out of context without reading the full sentence