I see the logic of both sides. I anticipate running OCR4 as I expect to have to fend off at least some TIE/D Defenders. I just hate to leave PainBot out. Feels like I need to play the list more, and use experience to help me better gauge if Glitterstim and Countermeasures are enough for when you need more then two focus.

Are Double Tie/D Ion Cannons going to ruin Dengar?

If you are running OCR4 is Recon Soec still necessary on Manaroo? Probably for if she has to go solo?

A word about protecting Manaroo. Is there a prevailing opinion on whether to focus in on Dengar or Manaroo first? What has experience taught you?

So many impostaroos...

You are going to have to elaborate on that comment. Are you disagreeing with someone's build? Who's? Why?

EDIT: Respond to AtomicFryingPan who posted while I was writing.

As I'm thinking of ways to neutralize Dengaroo when it becomes the hot new thing in the local meta (Wes being top of the list), I'm thinking that evolving Manaroo back to RecSpec, while keeping OCR4 on Dengar, would counter most direct counters to the shenanigans. 1 less point of initiative though, and the painbot on Manaroo did win me a match, but it's food for thought as the meta evolves to face Dengaroo.

Having flown both versions now, the OCR4 fits my style better, but I can see how some may prefer a painbot Dengar. Saying (or typing) Zuckuss never gets old, however scummy it feels!

So many impostaroos...

You are going to have to elaborate on that comment. Are you disagreeing with someone's build? Who's? Why?

EDIT: Respond to AtomicFryingPan who posted while I was writing.

I'd guess it's a Rook squadron reply to non-Rooks talking up Dengaroo. The second it was used, it became public knowledge and people like trying stuff that works. I know who I first saw flying that list, and it looked like fun! I won myself a second Jumpmaster just to get on the bandwagon

Why Dengar carries the Plasma Torps in most lists? Anyone know why/link to explanation?

Seems like a place to cut some points to possibly assist Manaroo.

Also, reasons for who should carry PainBot?

Right now Dengar seems to be the prevailing opinion, but seems like it could be used to help Manaroo if they target her?

you don't painbot Dengar in Dengaroo

Overclocked R4 is how you get infinite focus

you can painbot manaroo if you want

You absolutely can. It makes him even better endgame, and allows a bit more independence from Manaroo.

Yes, it does, but then you give up your endlessly modified offense and defense. That means you also limit the usefulness of Zuckuss, because you need Dengar to get actions. If he doesn't, he's a sitting duck.

Pain Bot is great on Manaroo. Hard choice between that and Unhinged, though. Is rather be absurdly fast and get shot less often than try to damage my attackers.

I've not see it limit Zuckuss's use yet, and Dengar's source of action is solely Manaroo anyway. Sure overclocked gives him "infinite" mods, but he's reliant on Manaroo for actions either way. Two focus is enough typically and the turn you need more there is glitterstim. The overclocked is much able to be countered, imo.

I don't really care either way, I really don't like what the ship does to the meta and both builds are very effective.

Anyone thoughts on Painbot on Manaroo? How much have you needed the 3 greens from Unhinged?

Anyone thoughts on Painbot on Manaroo? How much have you needed the 3 greens from Unhinged?

Honestly I haven't been impressed by either. In those same games PainBot on Manaroo has dealt out maybe three damage.

Two focus is enough typically and the turn you need more there is glitterstim. The overclocked is much able to be countered, imo.

Two focus enough? If you're flying dengaroo you're banking on being able to make two shots with Dengar per turn ( or use the threat of two shots to discourage your opponent from taking a shot they have) and absorb much of or all incoming damage. Lone Wolf is great, but without infinite focus it's not enough. If you need three focus and only have two because you didn't bring overclocked you're going to have a Bad Time.

How does Dengaroo handle triple scouts? Can it?

How does Dengaroo handle triple scouts? Can it?

it handles them by praying for good green dice on Dengar

Why Dengar carries the Plasma Torps in most lists? Anyone know why/link to explanation?

Seems like a place to cut some points to possibly assist Manaroo.

Also, reasons for who should carry PainBot?

Right now Dengar seems to be the prevailing opinion, but seems like it could be used to help Manaroo if they target her?

you don't painbot Dengar in Dengaroo

Overclocked R4 is how you get infinite focus

you can painbot manaroo if you want

You absolutely can. It makes him even better endgame, and allows a bit more independence from Manaroo.

Yes, it does, but then you give up your endlessly modified offense and defense. That means you also limit the usefulness of Zuckuss, because you need Dengar to get actions. If he doesn't, he's a sitting duck.

Pain Bot is great on Manaroo. Hard choice between that and Unhinged, though. Is rather be absurdly fast and get shot less often than try to damage my attackers.

I've not see it limit Zuckuss's use yet, and Dengar's source of action is solely Manaroo anyway. Sure overclocked gives him "infinite" mods, but he's reliant on Manaroo for actions either way. Two focus is enough typically and the turn you need more there is glitterstim. The overclocked is much able to be countered, imo.

I don't really care either way, I really don't like what the ship does to the meta and both builds are very effective.

Don't worry about hard counters. You can't build entirely around facing Wes or Palob. No one runs them now, and no one will run them even if Dengaroo becomes as prevalent as the pre-nerf Phantom. No one ran Roark or Torkil Mux then.

Palob's ability triggers in the same window as Manaroo's, so depending on who gets initiative you can just keep that ship away.

Wes's ability can be gamed by just focusing with Dengar and Manaroo so that Dengar has 2 focus tokens. If you're facing a squad with a T-65 in it, you can probably keep Zuckuss and overclocked use to a minimum. K4 Security Droid on Manaroo also drops extra modifier tokens for Dengar, he can't take them all.

I faced a party bus with 4-LOM crew and I just got Dengar 2 focus tokens. Then I was behind the Hound's Tooth.

Anyone thoughts on Painbot on Manaroo? How much have you needed the 3 greens from Unhinged?

I have been running the PainBot. The only thing that has come up is to have a right turn, albeit at speed 3. Maybe once out of 10/12 games against the computer have I wanted/needed the three left/straight.

Honestly I haven't been impressed by either. In those same games PainBot on Manaroo has dealt out maybe three damage.

After playing some more games against the computer I think I am going with Unhinged over PainBot. Having a right turn and three straight is worth the loss of some damage.

I am have been playing around with this:

Alpha-Strike Dengaroo (99)

Dengar (59) - JumpMaster 5000

Lone Wolf (2), Plasma Torpedoes (3), Extra Munitions (2), Zuckuss (1), Overclocked R4 (1), Glitterstim (2), Punishing One (12), Countermeasures (3)

Manaroo (40) - JumpMaster 5000

Push The Limit (3), Recon Specialist (3), Unhinged Astromech (1), Feedback Array (2), Engine Upgrade (4)

What do we think about the EM on Dengar? I had another Plasma Torp on Manaroo but never seem to use it. Allows for a double torp alpha on initial engagement. I am all but set on the 94 pts w/o Torps and EM, just trying to figure out how to best utilize remaking points and how much of a initiative bid to make.

EDIT: Add deck list and question

How does Dengaroo handle triple scouts? Can it?

Use your higher PS to control the approach, then engage at range 1 and eat the **** things alive. Dengar outguns them by an order of magnitude at close range.

Potentially random thought here. You've got a few ships facing against Dengaroo. Would it be terrible to target lock Manaroo with your ships when they are facing Dengar? Sort of a deterrent maybe so your opponent thinks twice about passing that all important focus. Remain unfocused for the turn, OR suffer a lot of modified attacks, or worse, ordnance with chips.

Just a small thought I had. Would you change your strategy for that turn if you were the Dengaroo player?

Potentially random thought here. You've got a few ships facing against Dengaroo. Would it be terrible to target lock Manaroo with your ships when they are facing Dengar? Sort of a deterrent maybe so your opponent thinks twice about passing that all important focus. Remain unfocused for the turn, OR suffer a lot of modified attacks, or worse, ordnance with chips.

Just a small thought I had. Would you change your strategy for that turn if you were the Dengaroo player?

Wait a minute, wait a minute - are you saying Long Range Scanners on TIE Bombers might actually make Dengaroo sweat a little? I like the sound of that!

I'm no sure it'd be worth building a list around this idea. LRS could make it work, though, because of the distance that's usually between the Jumps.

Potentially random thought here. You've got a few ships facing against Dengaroo. Would it be terrible to target lock Manaroo with your ships when they are facing Dengar? Sort of a deterrent maybe so your opponent thinks twice about passing that all important focus. Remain unfocused for the turn, OR suffer a lot of modified attacks, or worse, ordnance with chips.

Just a small thought I had. Would you change your strategy for that turn if you were the Dengaroo player?

Wait a minute, wait a minute - are you saying Long Range Scanners on TIE Bombers might actually make Dengaroo sweat a little? I like the sound of that!

I'm no sure it'd be worth building a list around this idea. LRS could make it work, though, because of the distance that's usually between the Jumps.

I think what you are doing is being ready for her to make a mistake and telegraph her move into range and swoop in and strike, assuming Dengar doesn't kill you first. I agree not something to build around, but something to potentially have in a back pocket!

I think what you are doing is being ready for her to make a mistake and telegraph her move into range and swoop in and strike, assuming Dengar doesn't kill you first.

I genuinely think there's an argument for Ignoring(ish) Dengar if you've got the speed to catch Manaroo (you'll need Boost, because she'll probably have it). Unlike Palpatine & Aces, Manaroo can run away faster than Palpatine's Shuttle, but - unlike Vader, Fel, The Inquisitor, etc, you've not got speed 5 boost-capable fighters chasing you. If he's taken countermeasures (which seems to be a common trick), and racking up stress (quite likely - it's kind of the point of the list), he's only got the white and green bits of a Jumpmaster's dial - meaning no Speed 3 turn, no Boost, and a maximum of a 135' course change in one turn.

By comparison, with 2-3 Agility, plus (potentially) 1 for range, plus focus, plus lone wolf - all you're really doing by engaging him is enabling that second shot.

Manaroo has a relatively low PS. I'd suggest going straight past dengar, boosting or Slamming if needed, and go after Manaroo first. He's a lot easier to handle without his blocker and token bunny.

How does Dengaroo handle triple scouts? Can it?

Use your higher PS to control the approach, then engage at range 1 and eat the **** things alive. Dengar outguns them by an order of magnitude at close range.

Dengar fares poorly vs. Torps. Even assuming Countermeasures and perfect 3/3 evades, a pair of 4 hit Plasmas still leave Dengar shieldless.

while Dengaroo favors blocks since he gets less stuff firing at him, torp scouts get enough of an advantage at range 2 that it doesn't matter (blocking also means no TL and because manny's faffed off it means no torps from dengar)

in this scenario here, the blocked Dengar even with countermeasures and obstruction just got nuked by a single plasma torp, a TLT zuckuss (7 stress to re-roll those evades + focus) and a feedback plink putting him to 4 hull because green dice. Sure, the torp scout lost all his shields (we also have overclocked ) but he didn't care considering he's not 100% of the list's damage output

next turn it was over, because the torp scout that shot was easily capable of blocking the telegraphed white seggy's (which he didn't do, but it didn't matter because with stress he can't roll and no maneuver he could have done would have saved him) while the other one did it sown white seggy into a range 1/torpedo while out of arc

but I did get to live the dream of slapping Dengar to PS 0 (Mux) and then feedbacking him to death

Potentially random thought here. You've got a few ships facing against Dengaroo. Would it be terrible to target lock Manaroo with your ships when they are facing Dengar? Sort of a deterrent maybe so your opponent thinks twice about passing that all important focus. Remain unfocused for the turn, OR suffer a lot of modified attacks, or worse, ordnance with chips.

Just a small thought I had. Would you change your strategy for that turn if you were the Dengaroo player?

Wait a minute, wait a minute - are you saying Long Range Scanners on TIE Bombers might actually make Dengaroo sweat a little? I like the sound of that!

I'm no sure it'd be worth building a list around this idea. LRS could make it work, though, because of the distance that's usually between the Jumps.

I think what you are doing is being ready for her to make a mistake and telegraph her move into range and swoop in and strike, assuming Dengar doesn't kill you first. I agree not something to build around, but something to potentially have in a back pocket!

Oh, see I was thinking you just gun for Dengar and target lock Manaroo right out the gate, and wait for her to send all the locks to Dengar so you can unleash on him. Admittedly, you'd need more than just ordnance for offensive kick, like Crackshot Gamma Vets or something. I don't know, I just find it appealing to make the Dengaroo player orchestrate his own demise by passing target locks along with the focus token(s).

My green dice love to protect me from modified PWT's but like to fail me when I only need one evade to live to make them burn next round. Usually chalk it up to Karmic Justice for my poor flying.

How does the list handle Defenders and Fat Rebel Turrets? We have a disproportionate percentage here.

Dash & K wing can (and will) destroy Dengaroo if flown right - both ships (when using Kanan on Dash) can easily catch manaroo, even if she runs away, and Dengar can't catch dash in his arc very easily even though he's lower PS. TLT will also hurt Manaroo as well and bombs can bring the pain on both ships.

I think what you are doing is being ready for her to make a mistake and telegraph her move into range and swoop in and strike, assuming Dengar doesn't kill you first.

I genuinely think there's an argument for Ignoring(ish) Dengar if you've got the speed to catch Manaroo (you'll need Boost, because she'll probably have it). Unlike Palpatine & Aces, Manaroo can run away faster than Palpatine's Shuttle, but - unlike Vader, Fel, The Inquisitor, etc, you've not got speed 5 boost-capable fighters chasing you. If he's taken countermeasures (which seems to be a common trick), and racking up stress (quite likely - it's kind of the point of the list), he's only got the white and green bits of a Jumpmaster's dial - meaning no Speed 3 turn, no Boost, and a maximum of a 135' course change in one turn.

By comparison, with 2-3 Agility, plus (potentially) 1 for range, plus focus, plus lone wolf - all you're really doing by engaging him is enabling that second shot.

Manaroo has a relatively low PS. I'd suggest going straight past dengar, boosting or Slamming if needed, and go after Manaroo first. He's a lot easier to handle without his blocker and token bunny.

With my limited experience playing the list I think I agree about taking out Manaroo, especially once Dengar starts collecting stress.Even if Dengar catches up, often LW is turned off. I feel like it is rather easy to predict/anticipate this list's movements, so it shouldn't be hard to bait Dengar and take off after Manaroo, especially with those, like me, playing the list with limited experience.

As for combatting this, I am surprised how often I see pilots take every stress possible. If 'Roo goes down, there is a chance to grind away your stress if you haven't forced focus re-rolls when they don't have focus, and use OCR4 at every opportunity. If you can keep your stress to the minimum required and utilize green maneuvers when possible, it is possible to get Dengar his actions back after he becomes a widower.

Some thoughts I have had since picking up the list:

From the Manaroo side of things, it is important to know when to run and when to buy time for Dengar.

If the opponent has even two green dice, you have to be exceedingly lucky to punch through damage with an unmodified shot from Manaroo. Opportunities arise to keep focus and let Dengar shoot up for the round. This is a tough decision to make that could be signifigant if you can get Manaroo another round.

I feel like the optimal position is to get Dengar within R1 of the furball, while holding Manaroo on the outskirts of R3 ready to run. The TL she can provide Dengar can mitigate the dreaded 3/4 blank roll, or torps if he's packing. Or she can fire Torps herself.