Honestly I don't see why phantoms are a menace in the meta now. There's tons of counters. From stress hog to just bringing a VI super ace that moves after her. Or just pumping her full of guidance chimped death. Or Conner nets. Or autoblaster turrets or learning how to fly a swarm to totally block her decloaks. Hell even crack shot does great for swarm vs phantoms now.

Honestly I think the phantom nerf was really dumb and that we should have nerfed large turrets instead which we found were the big big problem of wave 5 all the way through wave 7.

And yet they keep making more anti ace counter cards and literally zero things that are best and better versus large ships.

This design idea of large ships being King is extremely irritating.

In other words: rescind the phantom nerf. 2016.

Yeah the focus should be snubfighters not freighters.

Um, also if you're hated by the dice gods you can always try appeasing them with mass sacrifice...

Gunner & Fire Control System. On Both.

You are running at least two right?

... Right?

I stopped running Phantoms when my Whisper threw 16 red dice (previous TL and FCS + Gunner) and couldn't get a hit through, then I died when a focus would have saved me.

Well sure, decloaking the old way let you see where everyone went, but really it seems to limit your options. If I know you have to decloak before you reveal then I can just block your decloak lanes and then you can't do it! Ha! But now? I can choose to go wherever I want pretty much, especially in the early rounds. Having the game state remain the same through planning and decloaking is a blessing and one seemingly in disguise. Sure the old way may have allowed you to squib out if things looked bad, but it was also much more susceptible to being blocked.

Higher PS ships? Lol. That's hardly a hard counter, more of a simple fact of X-Wing. Yes, you can get shot down before you cloak but this just reinforces the need to plan carefully and correctly predict opponents. High PS? Okay then have fun chasing me across the mat for four rounds until you make a mistake! Not that I'm a pro at this, the scraped paint on Echo's hull will attest to this, but it's actually a viable tactic. No other ship can boast the maneuverability of a Phantom and that's a fact.

Are Phantoms junk post-nerf? Hardly. Have they disappeared from most scenes? Yes. Double Phantoms and generics even more so. Whisper still comes out a bit but this will never change.

Anyways, I'd like to share my Phantom list, it's nothing special. Just dual Buzzsaws.

Whisper + VI + ACD + FCS + Gunner = 44

Echo + same = 42

You can fit an Academy in there if you really want, but I've found the extra ship is still an MOV liability and doesn't bring enough blocking power to be worth giving up 12 points. Double Buzzsaws works because of two reasons. Action economy and raw damage. Plus, screw dice gods! Roll them dice again and again until something sticks. The action economy comes from not giving a flying nancy about your attack roll. You can roll and reroll for days so why focus up? Now you can evade with Whisper for that tasty token stack and BR with Echo to keep her out of arc and your attack suffers not a whit!

Now I am aware that this list predates my X-Wing career by a wide margin, but I feel like this is my list. It resonates with me in a way other lists haven't just as yet. I like to call the list Heavy Metal because it feels like a 1986 metal album. When you are playing keep away, it's like the sonorous plodding intro with bass riffs and drum fills. Slow, yet melodic and hinting at the molten arpeggios to come. When you turn into the fray, it's like the mid chorus break just before the guitar solo. Think Marty Freidman meets Kerry King at Yngwie Malmsteens house for beers. You let loose with those 4 dice and it's just... well, if you're a Slayer or Death fan, you know exactly what I mean!

That's what made the errata so clever, they found a way to seriously nerf the aspects of cloaking that were problematic (the insane arc dodging that was possible) while actually enhancing the elements of the mechanic that weren't bad.

With the change phantoms now are much less reactive and rely a lot more on the skill of the player. They are also loads more fun to play now, while still being good.

Those of us who fought in the dark era know of the terrible power the phantom once possessed. Their squads being so numerous that sometimes some of the strongest of us gave up and hid inside turrets. More of us still resisted, flying X-wings and A-wings and TIE Swarms, in an effort to crush the Phantoms and drive them from the tops of tables. Yet lo, the meta was too strong, our blasters too weak, and our former allies now in turrets to protect their points. Then, when all seemed lost, a FAQ came down from on high and FFG spoke saying, "fear no more, for now we banish the pre-maneuver de-cloak to the beginning of the activation phase so the phantoms may no longer only plan a one hard left and wait to see where you moved..." and it was good.

Threw together a bit of a silly Triple Phantom list, curious to see if anyone thinks this might be "fun" or just insane:

Whisper - VI, IA, FCS, ACD

2x Sigma Sq. Pilot - IA, FCS, SPA

I'm thinking the idea is to just run around, know your opponents moves, and throw as many dice as possible.

That's a cool triple Phantom list, but what is does the "IA" stand for on Whisper? Is that a funny way of saying Gunner?

On a more serious note, Stygium Particle Accelerators... Those are for Scum pseudo-cloakers, not true Phantoms. Why you ask? Because you want to always be decloaking, that's why. How are you going to decloak with SPA? By taking a cloak action in the previous round of course! But wait... if you do that, you can't shoot. So you are forced to choose between contributing damage or being maneuverable. Sure the evade is nice, but if you play it right you should be able to afford to take that action anyways. A Phantom that isn't decloaking is half a Phantom and that's just the facts. ACD is your bread and butter because it allows you to decloak almost every round. At regionals there was not one single game, not one round, where I didn't decloak. Giving up that extra mobility is really a poor option and if you can fit ACD in you absolutely should.

Of course there is another train of thought when it comes to Phantoms... Naked Generics. Or next to naked. SPA can work here because the idea is that you're basically flying a crack addicted X-Wing with a 4 dice chip on it's shoulder. Cloak on round 1, decloak into the fray and hope you kill enough **** to not die from return fire. 2 green dice plus an evade token might sound like hot cross buns to a degenerate Rebel player, but we Phantom pilots know it's far better to have 4 greens and an evade. For two extra points a ship, it's really just a no-brainer.

Try this on for size if you want a alternative Phantom list.

2x Naked Sigma Squadrons

1x Howlrunner, Juke

2x Blackcracks

Forget the cloak. Run tight and see the look of terror on your hapless foes faces when you start rerolling attack dice.

Intelligence Agent on everyone. I dont trust my ability to predict enemy ships more than I dont trust my ability to always reroll, so everyone gets it.

And the logic behind the SPA over the ACD is that the not-Whispers would be constantly decloaking and cloaking until they can safely line up a shot, resulting in two evade tokens on turns they aren't shooting. Cant use them against the same attack, but can bring out a little more longevity in them.

Lol, yeah I know what IA stands for. Multiples of them is probably cheating, which is totally okay! Just be sure to bring your skull chalice for the tears.

I dunno man, double evades since the new ruling is kinda borked. You could ostensibly make use of two evades in a round, but really there is a high chance of dying well before that. Two dice just isn't enough to keep you safe. Plus, what happens when you get into the furball? You don't want to be taking a cloak action at that point you want that as a free action after shooting someones face off.

Phantoms are still crazy good. They just require a bit more skill.

For reference, I'm mostly a rebel player, just break out the imps now and then when wanting to mix it up a little. One thing I've learned from running ships like A-Wings a lot, is that if they are in a furball situation, you have done goofed unless you're just using them as blockers. And with them being already PS3, since the FLGS here runs mostly Palp ace lists anyways, putting ACD on them just isn't as efficient; it's still nice to start cloaked after an attack, but I try to not keep glass cannon ships in the middle of ugly anyways.

The idea I had was for the two not-whispers to run a block formation with a single ship as target, and run Whisper as the heavy hitter. This still leaves you with a pair of solid guns as backup when you can get the right shots in.

Well, really Gharland I can't argue with the idea since, well... Phantoms.

I'm actually trying to build a list for tomorrow that isn't just Whisper and Echo, but I'm having a hard time. I mean... Whisper and Echo!

Like, I'm seriously just in love with the build. So much so in fact that I'm like "B-Wings, Y-Wings, Falcon... Whisper and Echo!"...

I might just sell the rest of my collection just to make list building easier!

You could always just run four naked Sigmas to get the most possible phantoms on the field.

Personally I would like them to get rid of the nerf. My friends and I still play it the old way when we play causally, and I don't even own or fly a Phantom. It was much harder to fight them and extremely annoying when I had predicted my opponents moves down to the point where I had two ships lined up for the shot and he would decloak right out of it, where as decloaking before would have made him hit a rock. But I had more fun in those games then I do with the current lists out there or playing the cloak mechanic as it is now.

The ship is a beast but flying against now in compression to then is like fighting a bobcat instead of a mountain lion. You might survive against making a mistake against the first one but you won't other with the second one. I loved the challenge it made flying against it and the fact it made me have to think thur my acts more then I do now.

Here's the other problem. Phantoms become much less powerful not based on how poorly skilled the flyer is.... but how poorly skilled the opponent is!

The ability to guess where the Phantom will go, how to block multiple locations that require you to use rocks and a ship to block is very much a high end skill. Also simply list building a higher PS ace into the build tends to wear the Phantom down super quickly.

To that end, the Phantom does not see good use at top tables, because that's where they stop looking like easy mode and become relatively easy to beat.

Again for the most part, high PS ships have a relatively easy time tearing a Phantom apart. Those 2 greens on 4 hull aren't going to do anything for you!

And you have choices with reposition now too: VI Poe. VI Vader. VI RAC. VI Corran. VI Dash. VI Rexler. VI Wes. VI Wedge.

And that's not even including just being decent at normal ships that can put heavy firepower on her.

The Phantom isn't a menace anymore. Rescind the nerf.

There is a way to counter the out-init a phantom mentality/issue.

I ran VI Vader once along side Echo with Decoy. Made sure when i decloak i was within range 1-2 of Vader and i stole his PS11. Yeah it made him attack at PS6 but thats why hes an arc-dodger since he still moves last he can dodge attacks unlike the PS6 Echo.

That totally threw off several of my opponents. I rarely see VI on PS9 anymore because the PS9 guys can be brutal with the right EPT. Lots of PS10 because they out-ps the PS9 guys everyone is trying to bring nasty EPTs on instead of making PS11.

Theres also the TIE/fo pilot that is PS12 until he takes a damage card. Nowhere near as dependable though since soon as he gets hit twice or flatout dealt a card then Echo becomes a lot weaker, and hes not as hard as Vader to tag.

That's a good idea if you can consistently get the arc dodge on Vader.

To that end, the Phantom does not see good use at top tables, because that's where they stop looking like easy mode and become relatively easy to beat.

Apparently nobody in SoCal read that memo. If you are planning on playing on the top tables you need to expect to see some Phantoms on them.

27 points for PS 3 Phantom with Collison Detector and Stygium.

who wins between Whisper an Fenn Rau, if Rau give Whisper Initiative to be able to get at R1 Whisper would then shoot 1st with 5 dice but Rau could block 4, where as Rau now shoots 5 and gets a extra hit for 6 maybe and Whisper can only block 4, hmmmm

who wins between Whisper an Fenn Rau, if Rau give Whisper Initiative to be able to get at R1 Whisper would then shoot 1st with 5 dice but Rau could block 4, where as Rau now shoots 5 and gets a extra hit for 6 maybe and Whisper can only block 4, hmmmm

Whisper deals 1 Damage against Fenn Rau.

Rau deals on average 1.2 Damage (thank you Manaroo) against Whisper who shoots first for an focus, token and had an taken an evade token + Palp.

Basically this ends up in MAD, though the rest of the lists has a few things to say about the real outcome and Whisper as a slight advantage thanks to having shields and not eating as easy crits.

Though if Fenn has initiative he destroys Whisper and having Agent Kallus might give Whisper the edge and makes it another case of mutually assured destruction if Fenn shoots first.

In the End it decided purely on dice luck, flying and the other ships. If you like 50/50 chances you might go for it, but in general trying to arc dodge is better when you do not shoot first and even when you do.

And you have choices with reposition now too: VI Poe. VI Vader. VI RAC. VI Corran. VI Dash. VI Rexler. VI Wes. VI Wedge.

And that's not even including just being decent at normal ships that can put heavy firepower on her.

The Phantom isn't a menace anymore. Rescind the nerf.

I can only conclude you've not seen the Yorr + Omega + Whisper build flown by a skilled player. It's true it struggles with some matchups, but it's also true that many of those matchups struggle in the larger meta (yeah, RAC with Vader crew hard counters Whisper. He doesn't like triple Scouts so much, though).

Dengaroo poses a real problem for Whisper, I'll grant you that.

To that end, the Phantom does not see good use at top tables, because that's where they stop looking like easy mode and become relatively easy to beat.

Apparently nobody in SoCal read that memo. If you are planning on playing on the top tables you need to expect to see some Phantoms on them.

I have friends from Socal. I know they're still crazy about them there! =)

But they're also pretty good as far as I know.