Been away from X-Wing since Armada released, but getting into it again. Last era I played in actively, Phantoms were unholy death machines. Don't see them mentioned much now. They still see table time in the "big picture"?

They show up time to time in my experience, but after the cloaking mechanic got a nerf, I think they generally get seen as a bit too expensive for what they offer. They are still brutal to face, but require a little more skill than they did before.

Primary kings of the field are Jumpmasters and Palpatine/Ace lists right now.

FFG recognized that cloaking was significantly overpowered and issued actual (very clever) errata to change the way it works so now phantoms are good, but not crazy broken.

FYI, the change was that you now decloak at the start of the round, after dials are set but before anyone moves, instead of just before you reveal YOUR dial.

FFG recognized that cloaking was significantly overpowered and issued actual (very clever) errata to change the way it works so now phantoms are good, but not crazy broken.

FYI, the change was that you now decloak at the start of the round, after dials are set but before anyone moves, instead of just before you reveal YOUR dial.

Ah, I vaguely remember seeing that mentioned, though I didn't recall the specifics.

That's a valid change I think. I remember them being beasts before (though in my hands they under-performed because I am hated by the dice gods).

As a guy who never got to decloak the old way, I feel like they're still Unholy Death Machines. I flew some at regionals and did pretty good, for a noob. I had a hard time learning how to use them because there really isn't a lot of talk about them. I was the first person in my local scene to really get to know them, but I still have a lot to learn.

I feel like being able to decloak before anything else happens is really a big deal. The board state does not change after planning and you can really move around. Intelligence Agent is now even more powerful, I would imagine, because that happens before the decloak. Thus you can set what I like to call a "neutral" maneuver; basically a move you can clear no matter which way you decloak, and then see what would be the best option for what IA reveals. I don't think this would be that feasible with the old rules. Double up on IA and it's practically cheating!

Plus there is a card coming in the TIE/sf that let's you decloak over ships as well as over and onto obstacles. By the way, ignore crit results on obstacle damage. And it's free. Yeah. Hello victim, meet Echo.

They're still terrifyingly vicious in well -played hands, but that's exactly it - they must be played well indeed, because they lost their room for error in the old 'whoops, this looks bad, I'll just bug out instead' routine - you have to pick a plan and commit to it.

And a mistake can cost you 40pts all too quickly.

Overcharged? Not at all. But far from an easy ship to fly, either.

Um, also if you're hated by the dice gods you can always try appeasing them with mass sacrifice...

Gunner & Fire Control System. On Both.

You are running at least two right?

... Right?

I feel like being able to decloak before anything else happens is really a big deal. The board state does not change after planning and you can really move around. Intelligence Agent is now even more powerful, I would imagine, because that happens before the decloak. Thus you can set what I like to call a "neutral" maneuver; basically a move you can clear no matter which way you decloak, and then see what would be the best option for what IA reveals. I don't think this would be that feasible with the old rules. Double up on IA and it's practically cheating!

In the old rules you got to do exactly that, except you didn't need intelligence agent and you got to see what EVERY ship with a lower PS than you did, instead of just one.

The Dice Gods chose to spite me the one time I tried to run a phantom. Running Whisper, boosted with VI, bringing advanced cloaking device, intel agent, and FCS. First shot taken, is a range 3 shot through an asteroid while cloaked. Dice fail. One crit goes through: Damaged cockpit. A PS0 Phantom is a dead phantom.

Um, also if you're hated by the dice gods you can always try appeasing them with mass sacrifice...

Gunner & Fire Control System. On Both.

You are running at least two right?

... Right?

Naturally.

I'm just the kind of guy that can have a point blank shot up somebody's tailpipe with one and roll nothing but blanks.

I feel like being able to decloak before anything else happens is really a big deal.

Naah because now you might decloak into Range 1, whereas with the old rules you would never decloak into range 1.

I feel like being able to decloak before anything else happens is really a big deal.

Naah because now you might decloak into Range 1, whereas with the old rules you would never decloak into range 1.

New rules do allow for decloak blocking if you're packing smart IA. Which is a new level of shenanigans, just less cant-kill-me power.

They're incredibly easier to block now if you're facing a competent opponent as your decloak totally telegraphs your intent.

IMO. They're totally ruined.

Also Tons of **** hard counter it now. . Vi Poe. Vi Vader. Vader crew. Autoblaster turret ghost. The giant plethora of other Ps 9 10 11 ships out there.

Not fond of playing whisper now.

This thread made me want to try Echo instead of the Inquisitor In a triple 8 list.

Whisper is still right up there. TLTs really hurt them but the ordnance resurgence knocked those out.

They were too strong, now they are not really worth the effort.

No one was really clambering for a phantom fix but clearly ffg has noticed their absence and it applying incremental buffs.

I agree that the change to cloak mechanics really broke the intent of what a cloaked ship is supposed to be... Nearly impossible to see and predict.

I would rather have the old mechanics and a weaker TIE Phantom than this weird system of publicly and obviously moving around before anyone else. Being cloaked SHOULD grant that ship the luxury of deciding whether and how to decloak after seeing other ships move around it.

They were too strong, now they are not really worth the effort.

No one was really clambering for a phantom fix but clearly ffg has noticed their absence and it applying incremental buffs.

I agree. I think people might be discounting Collision Detector a little too much. Yes, FCS is better, no argument there, but phantoms get expensive quick. If you can save 2 points to fit in a better second ace AND gain a little more maneuverability, it might find its place here or there.

My favorite list to fly is Echo with VI, ACD, FCS, and Rec Spec Carnor Jax with PTL, AT, RGT, and SD and Omega Leader with CR and Juke. They are all 8s so I can move them in any order I want outside of Echo's decloak plus having Rec Spec on Echo can be brutal since you can use the focus on defence once and still have one for attack. I have a lot of fun flying this list both because of the shenanigans that Echo's decloak plays with where you can end up and because of all the action blocking that Carnor and OL can do.

Old decloak was pretty easy mode, though

New timing forcing you to actually plan ahead is a good change

Of course, primary turrets still exist but those are also pretty easy mode and could do with changing for the sake of interesting gameplay, though it's far more difficult to do so than switching the timing of decloak

I one shot whisper with a gamma swuad vet and homing missiles the other day. Phantoms are hot garbage against things that aren't a 2 ship meta.

Whisper/Echo are still brutal and still have the main issue of they have to shoot first or they could easily die. As mentioned earlier the decloak nerf is one of the main reasons they vanished: oh no i gotta predict and plan everything now!

Other issue is palpaces are a thing. Phantoms are too expensive to run with a palpmobile and another ace so people automatically throw the phantom out rather than abuse their mobility. I absolutely love Echo and ive gotten insanely good at abusing her bank decloak. Its far more fun, rewarding, and interesting than palpaces....

Whisper/Echo are still brutal and still have the main issue of they have to shoot first or they could easily die. As mentioned earlier the decloak nerf is one of the main reasons they vanished: oh no i gotta predict and plan everything now!

Other issue is palpaces are a thing. Phantoms are too expensive to run with a palpmobile and another ace so people automatically throw the phantom out rather than abuse their mobility. I absolutely love Echo and ive gotten insanely good at abusing her bank decloak. Its far more fun, rewarding, and interesting than palpaces....

I would disagree on this one. There are a few people playing the 'Mynock' special and doing decently well with it:

Whisper + VI, ACD, FCS & Kallus

Omega Leader + Juke & Relay

Yorr + Palp

I love the fact nobody else runs phantoms. My opponents are a lot less prepared nowadays.

I love the fact nobody else runs phantoms. My opponents are a lot less prepared nowadays.

This

Phantoms are so rare that nobody can accurately predict them anymore. Many of my local opponents just ignore them unless they happen to get a shot somehow. Which never works lol