I live in a very dense part of LA and I can confirm that I need to drive >1 hour to play on a weekend and cannot play at all on weekdays. Millions of people, not many Armada players.

Isn't there some kind of app that lets you see who plays what in your general area ?

Live outside of Tampa FL and I have to drive about 40 minutes to get to my FLGS, we have 4 or 5 armada players. One is actually James Lockwood (his fleet was selected in the Fleet Commander contest!) and he has dropped hundreds of dollars into the game, with multiple copies of each ship. We will have a smaller campaign, but it will be a lot of fun!

I live in a very dense part of LA and I can confirm that I need to drive >1 hour to play on a weekend and cannot play at all on weekdays. Millions of people, not many Armada players.

To be fair though, in LA you have to drive >hour to go three blocks.

I suspect if your local meta is healthy and you reasonably expect a dozen players at a tourney then you think all is well. OTOH, if you are seeing reduced play in your area or your tourneys are in the half dozen player or less category then it's not being irrational to worry if your models might end up being for show. Perceptions matter and arguing that someone else perception is wrong because it's negative and not in line with the "facts" is pretty hard to do without being rude and wrong.

It sounds like Hero is looking at a trend and maybe being unable to see the curves bend the other way in the future, but I can tell you I really want to see the campaign get played and if it doesn't I'm going to hope to sell my figs before the game gets anymore obscure locally. I say this as a person who has sold only a couple game systems in almost four decades of gaming.

The flotillas needed to be out months ago, and I don't care about anything but results. If the releases disappear for this long again, the game is virtually done (which means it won't disappear just whither). You guys in the happy metas are not enough to support the game's production when the rest of the world stops caring.

So argue factoids and attitudes and ought to do's all you want. Hero isn't pulling a chicken little. Posting his opinion on this thread is not going to cause the game to fail. FFG should be concerned with what he is saying and try to do better by the Armada community even if they are victims of bad luck and wanted the flotillas out in April. You should mostly reconsider how you approach responses to posts from guys who see problems where you don't.

As for thinking the game companies are going to do the work to build communities without guys taking on unpaid jobs of doing it themselves that's just not going to happen. It should happen, but it really just won't. The model for that just hasn't been invented.

We sadly don't get a dozen players. For a game like Armada, with size constraints and such, 8 usually the most in Portland, I think I did 10 once. It is a new game that is not cheap to get into, however, I won't let that be a factor for me to represent the ge. Someone has to do it and I love the game enough to be that person.

Armada never really caught on in Kissimmee. Only a handful of people actually bought into it. Asking around, many people are simply not interested for a few reasons.

1. How embedded and established X-Wing is (why risk a system nobody plays when X-Wing has 10+ players on weekdays).

2. only having 2 factions (actually a big turn off for mini gamers around here),

3. and biggest of all, people turned off by the starter set. They are turned off by the $100 price tag. They are turned off that it is split between 2 factions. They are really turned off that despite the first two complaints, it is not a true 2 player starter. Pravateer Press and Wyrd put out much better multi faction 2 player starters at lower prices (with the option of multiple single player/faction starters as well).

Right now it is just down to me and one other guy who play Armada, and even then only semi regularly (just gets old playing the same person over and over again).

Wow, such a... lively... debate. There is a really simple way to look at this. Armada will go nowhere, and products will continue to be released as long as one simple thing happens. It sells. If people are buying the game, the game will go on, regardless of the size of tournaments or the complaints of certain members of the player base. The last time I saw any numbers, Armada was selling... WELL. The doomsayers have been saying Armada is dying for months and months, since the delays in Wave 2 got frustrating for all of us. Yet, the sales numbers continue to be extremely strong. When the sales start to significantly dry up, and new releases don't translate to spikes in profit for FFG, then we can all be concerned. Until then, all this pointless wave analysis, comparisons to other games and back and forth bickering is just clutter to these boards.

Do you have sales numbers, or a chart that says it's the top 3? Because that doesn't mean anything. It can be 5 billion dollars (jokenumber.gf) behind 40K and still be top 3.

What does matter is how player growth and retention are doing. My current data is based off of entire/large regions, not just some whereevertheF in rural Alabama. I still cannot for the life of me not understand how people in this thread are not getting it. Release cycle means jack if people are not staying with the game. If my NorCal/SoCal/Arizona/Nevada (basically the West Coast minus Washington/Vancouver area) metrics compared to the East Coast numbers (mainly tri-state area + Delaware), two of the MOST populous zones in America (don't have connections in the UK or Asia), then I have a right to be worried about MY hobby.

If you want to talk, let's talk about Regional numbers and participants, how many for X-Wing vs. Armada and what not? The game is both 1v1 in format, so the number of players should be around the same ballpark regardless of the design of the game. We're talking strictly numbers here; I don't want this to become another luxury game like Forgeworld vs. 40K.. look where that got GW.

One thing to consider is Armada is not built at it's core as tournament friendly as x-wing. Xwing is quicker, simpler, with less product to cart to the tourney (more relevant for big conventions than local tourneys).. it also very much shares playerbases with xwing, which was out first and already established it's tournament scene. IMO it was a mistake to put all 3 star wars games on the same timetable for championships.

That said, it can sell very well and be played plenty without being as big a presence at gaming tournaments. It's sales numbers demonstrate it's doing great. FFG seem to see it's more a personal play game than big tournament monster with the campaign pack. Things are good. It doesn't have to beat X-wing's numbers to be good. If I really cared to show off my skills and be a big shot competitive player invited to many podcasts, this game would not be my first pick... but I just want to play games, the more narrative to them with less repetitive play the better, so the current direction of Armada is great for me.

Yes, X-Wing is faster but that is solely due do it being built a faster game. It should be a fast seat of your pants game. Speed has nothing to do with it being a tournament based game or not.

If speed was a determining factor, only X-Wing would in that category since most other games take far longer.

The campaign will be great becuase it will give us that narrative we wanted.

Armada never really caught on in Kissimmee. Only a handful of people actually bought into it. Asking around, many people are simply not interested for a few reasons.

1. How embedded and established X-Wing is (why risk a system nobody plays when X-Wing has 10+ players on weekdays).

2. only having 2 factions (actually a big turn off for mini gamers around here),

3. and biggest of all, people turned off by the starter set. They are turned off by the $100 price tag. They are turned off that it is split between 2 factions. They are really turned off that despite the first two complaints, it is not a true 2 player starter. Pravateer Press and Wyrd put out much better multi faction 2 player starters at lower prices.

Right now it is just down to me and one other guy who play Armada, and even then only semi regularly (just gets old playing the same person over and over again).

Keep at it, let people play a game.

With the 2 factions, are you saying that they did not play X-Wing till a year ago?

I kind of wish the new squadrons had come with a new special squadron rule instead of the being unique. A rule where you could get multiple bases at increasing points cost or something. like +1 point more than the last one bought.

eg:

1 rogue squadron = 14 pts
2nd = 15
3rd = 16

being able to get just one of them seems too much like a tease. In the end we still see the YT-2400 doing what people wanted from the Rogue Squadron. A few units of Black Squadron would have been great too.

Except of course, they seem to have gone the route that, a Base is a Squadron.

There can't be more than One Black Squadron, because its BLACK SQUADRON.

Except of course, they seem to have gone the route that, a Base is a Squadron.

There can't be more than One Black Squadron, because its BLACK SQUADRON.

Yeah lost in all the nonsense is that we can finally put an end to what was the silliest debate on the forum. One base=One Squadron apparently.

I keep seeing people state we should get wave 4 by December. Didn't the specifically state it will be out in August?

Armada never really caught on in Kissimmee. Only a handful of people actually bought into it. Asking around, many people are simply not interested for a few reasons.

1. How embedded and established X-Wing is (why risk a system nobody plays when X-Wing has 10+ players on weekdays).

2. only having 2 factions (actually a big turn off for mini gamers around here),

3. and biggest of all, people turned off by the starter set. They are turned off by the $100 price tag. They are turned off that it is split between 2 factions. They are really turned off that despite the first two complaints, it is not a true 2 player starter. Pravateer Press and Wyrd put out much better multi faction 2 player starters at lower prices.

Right now it is just down to me and one other guy who play Armada, and even then only semi regularly (just gets old playing the same person over and over again).

If you have ever an FLGS, demo and Rep the game. I am always facing an uphill battle to get new players and players in general. It's not easy with X-Wing dominating the field (thought to be honest I don't have a winning personality either )

Keep at it, let people play a game.

With the 2 factions, are you saying that they did not play X-Wing till a year ago?

Actually, X-Wing almost doubled in popularity when Scum was released here, even though many of the new players chose not to play Scum.

I keep seeing people state we should get wave 4 by December. Didn't the specifically state it will be out in August?

They did, pretty recently. But we'll see you know? I think the december folks just have FFG PTSD, but I wouldn't be terribly shocked to see it fall back to september based on recent history.

My personal theory though, is that wave three is here and ready to go, but they know wave four will be here soon and they figure they can drop them both at the same time after all.

I keep seeing people state we should get wave 4 by December. Didn't the specifically state it will be out in August?

Armada never really caught on in Kissimmee. Only a handful of people actually bought into it. Asking around, many people are simply not interested for a few reasons.

1. How embedded and established X-Wing is (why risk a system nobody plays when X-Wing has 10+ players on weekdays).

2. only having 2 factions (actually a big turn off for mini gamers around here),

3. and biggest of all, people turned off by the starter set. They are turned off by the $100 price tag. They are turned off that it is split between 2 factions. They are really turned off that despite the first two complaints, it is not a true 2 player starter. Pravateer Press and Wyrd put out much better multi faction 2 player starters at lower prices.

Right now it is just down to me and one other guy who play Armada, and even then only semi regularly (just gets old playing the same person over and over again).

If you have ever an FLGS, demo and Rep the game. I am always facing an uphill battle to get new players and players in general. It's not easy with X-Wing dominating the field (thought to be honest I don't have a winning personality either )

Keep at it, let people play a game.

With the 2 factions, are you saying that they did not play X-Wing till a year ago?

Actually, X-Wing almost doubled in popularity when Scum was released here, even though many of the new players chose not to play Scum.

Armada never really caught on in Kissimmee. Only a handful of people actually bought into it. Asking around, many people are simply not interested for a few reasons.

1. How embedded and established X-Wing is (why risk a system nobody plays when X-Wing has 10+ players on weekdays).

2. only having 2 factions (actually a big turn off for mini gamers around here),

3. and biggest of all, people turned off by the starter set. They are turned off by the $100 price tag. They are turned off that it is split between 2 factions. They are really turned off that despite the first two complaints, it is not a true 2 player starter. Pravateer Press and Wyrd put out much better multi faction 2 player starters at lower prices.

Right now it is just down to me and one other guy who play Armada, and even then only semi regularly (just gets old playing the same person over and over again).

If you have ever an FLGS, demo and Rep the game. I am always facing an uphill battle to get new players and players in general. It's not easy with X-Wing dominating the field (thought to be honest I don't have a winning personality either )

Keep at it, let people play a game.

With the 2 factions, are you saying that they did not play X-Wing till a year ago?

Actually, X-Wing almost doubled in popularity when Scum was released here, even though many of the new players chose not to play Scum.

People are so weird. I don't doubt for a second that is 100% true, and the third faction had a causal relationship with the increase of player base.

. Both Wave III and Wave IV are scheduled to arrive at retailers later in August

https://www.fantasyflightgames.com/en/news/2016/7/22/swm-victory/

HERO- just trying to figure out your point. Are you saying FFG isn't doing a good job because they aren't supporting Armada as well right now as they do xwing right now (fewer releases) or that they aren't doing a good job because there aren't enough players? Can you give me a brief explanation of what you are upset about?

Thanks!

I think when you look at the raw numbers and metrics of a game like X-Wing vs. Armada, the signs are not very promising from a business need perspective. I work in data and metrics all the time and when I see these trends, it's very worrisome. If the supply and demand of the playerbase for a game is much larger than another while pulling from the relative playerpool e.g. people interested in Star Wars, this can result in one product cannibalizing the other in terms of resources (from a business perspective). There's actual proof in that both games share the same playerbase, as even Lyraeous will tell you that most players either stay, or leave for X-Wing, both all share the same crowd of predominately fans interested in the Star Wars franchise.

I just see worrying trends, and it gets more worrisome when the velocity of product releases for X-Wing increases whereas the scope of the overall release for Armada it not nearly as impressive. When Wave 2 came out, I was not nearly as doom and gloom because the data that I needed to be worried about wasn't quite there. The product was still relatively fresh and I was still very much empathetic for FFG's business model. However, this year, I'm not as thrilled first because of "Wave 3" loljoke.jpg, and now Wave 4, which should actually just be called Wave 3. Overall, just not very happy with how FFG's business strategy with X-Wing. If I was them, I'd be riding the franchise hype train as hard as I can because the next couple of years are literally loaded with SW movies.

First off, thanks for the response. You mention the metrics of Atmada and xwing. What would those be? Are they purely experiential or from other sources?

For what it is worth, my experience is that Armada has a lot fewer players than xwing. I have even sen some who play both stick more to xwing because they get more games in or prefer it.

However, I disagree with your assessment of game health. I remember wave IV xwing. Few played where I was. It was still building. Armada is in the same boat. I dont, nevertheless, believe that Armada is going to have the popularity of Xwing. It is a different game and isn't going to get the same play. That doesn't mean they won't keep it going.

The difference in popularity isn't due (primarily) to release schedule. Instead, IMO, game length, depth of play, and releasing after Xwimg are all the reasons Aada won't be as popular.

In the end, the release schedule is allowing for good, balanced gameplay and speeding it up won't likely increase popularity. Thus, good job FFG IMO.

HERO- just trying to figure out your point. Are you saying FFG isn't doing a good job because they aren't supporting Armada as well right now as they do xwing right now (fewer releases) or that they aren't doing a good job because there aren't enough players? Can you give me a brief explanation of what you are upset about?

Thanks!

I think when you look at the raw numbers and metrics of a game like X-Wing vs. Armada, the signs are not very promising from a business need perspective. I work in data and metrics all the time and when I see these trends, it's very worrisome. If the supply and demand of the playerbase for a game is much larger than another while pulling from the relative playerpool e.g. people interested in Star Wars, this can result in one product cannibalizing the other in terms of resources (from a business perspective). There's actual proof in that both games share the same playerbase, as even Lyraeous will tell you that most players either stay, or leave for X-Wing, both all share the same crowd of predominately fans interested in the Star Wars franchise.

I just see worrying trends, and it gets more worrisome when the velocity of product releases for X-Wing increases whereas the scope of the overall release for Armada it not nearly as impressive. When Wave 2 came out, I was not nearly as doom and gloom because the data that I needed to be worried about wasn't quite there. The product was still relatively fresh and I was still very much empathetic for FFG's business model. However, this year, I'm not as thrilled first because of "Wave 3" loljoke.jpg, and now Wave 4, which should actually just be called Wave 3. Overall, just not very happy with how FFG's business strategy with X-Wing. If I was them, I'd be riding the franchise hype train as hard as I can because the next couple of years are literally loaded with SW movies.

First off, thanks for the response. You mention the metrics of Atmada and xwing. What would those be? Are they purely experiential or from other sources?

For what it is worth, my experience is that Armada has a lot fewer players than xwing. I have even sen some who play both stick more to xwing because they get more games in or prefer it.

However, I disagree with your assessment of game health. I remember wave IV xwing. Few played where I was. It was still building. Armada is in the same boat. I dont, nevertheless, believe that Armada is going to have the popularity of Xwing. It is a different game and isn't going to get the same play. That doesn't mean they won't keep it going.

The difference in popularity isn't due (primarily) to release schedule. Instead, IMO, game length, depth of play, and releasing after Xwimg are all the reasons Aada won't be as popular.

In the end, the release schedule is allowing for good, balanced gameplay and speeding it up won't likely increase popularity. Thus, good job FFG IMO.

This guy gets it.

This guy gets it.

I get so very little, that it is nice to get something.

Armada never really caught on in Kissimmee. Only a handful of people actually bought into it. Asking around, many people are simply not interested for a few reasons.

1. How embedded and established X-Wing is (why risk a system nobody plays when X-Wing has 10+ players on weekdays).

2. only having 2 factions (actually a big turn off for mini gamers around here),

3. and biggest of all, people turned off by the starter set. They are turned off by the $100 price tag. They are turned off that it is split between 2 factions. They are really turned off that despite the first two complaints, it is not a true 2 player starter. Pravateer Press and Wyrd put out much better multi faction 2 player starters at lower prices (with the option of multiple single player/faction starters as well).

Right now it is just down to me and one other guy who play Armada, and even then only semi regularly (just gets old playing the same person over and over again).

I'm in winter garden... There's no one I've found up here that plays. Where do you play?

http://icv2.com/articles/markets/view/33912/top-5-non-collectible-miniature-games-fall-2015

Third best selling non-collectable miniature game in Fall 2015. I believe we're still waiting on the Spring 2016 results, as I couldn't find those.

In some areas the meta is drying up but overall it seems to be doing fine. If your meta is struggling, you're going to see evidence that backs up your gut feeling everywhere. And then you're going to come to the forums and fight with people and tell us Armada is dead/dying. Then the rest of us are going to roll our eyes at you and then someone will say something about AdmiralNelson and we'll move on with life.

Only I did no such thing. I pointed out that if they repeat what's been happening it will stop growing and that companies are known to then kill the whole project or that they whither anyway. Also, if that's the whole of the data available there is nothing positive to be drawn from that. That's before the famine isn't it?

So you are using crud data and making threats of social ostracism based not really on the data but on your preference to strike out at anyone who questions, no matter how slightly, the assuredness of your cheese remaining in the same place. Odds are you will be fine unless you use this sort of thinking in your personal finances because there really is no guarantee Uncle Sugar will ever send you checks.

I suspect if your local meta is healthy and you reasonably expect a dozen players at a tourney then you think all is well. OTOH, if you are seeing reduced play in your area or your tourneys are in the half dozen player or less category then it's not being irrational to worry if your models might end up being for show. Perceptions matter and arguing that someone else perception is wrong because it's negative and not in line with the "facts" is pretty hard to do without being rude and wrong.

It sounds like Hero is looking at a trend and maybe being unable to see the curves bend the other way in the future, but I can tell you I really want to see the campaign get played and if it doesn't I'm going to hope to sell my figs before the game gets anymore obscure locally. I say this as a person who has sold only a couple game systems in almost four decades of gaming.

The flotillas needed to be out months ago, and I don't care about anything but results. If the releases disappear for this long again, the game is virtually done (which means it won't disappear just whither). You guys in the happy metas are not enough to support the game's production when the rest of the world stops caring.

So argue factoids and attitudes and ought to do's all you want. Hero isn't pulling a chicken little. Posting his opinion on this thread is not going to cause the game to fail. FFG should be concerned with what he is saying and try to do better by the Armada community even if they are victims of bad luck and wanted the flotillas out in April. You should mostly reconsider how you approach responses to posts from guys who see problems where you don't.

As for thinking the game companies are going to do the work to build communities without guys taking on unpaid jobs of doing it themselves that's just not going to happen. It should happen, but it really just won't. The model for that just hasn't been invented.

I don't know what data you are getting that says that the Flotillas should of been out months ago. Makes no sense to me.

We sadly don't get a dozen players. For a game like Armada, with size constraints and such, 8 usually the most in Portland, I think I did 10 once. It is a new game that is not cheap to get into, however, I won't let that be a factor for me to represent the ge. Someone has to do it and I love the game enough to be that person.

You miss the point. I don't care when Flotillas were supposed to be out. I'm pointing out that it doesn't matter why they are coming out so long after the last release. It was too long.

I can't tell you if they are better off keeping folks in the dark or not as to when the next release will be, but I can tell you the game is gathering dust due to lack of a fresh release.

If we get a campaign going that will help a lot. Otherwise, another wait until August will kill organized play in my area.

I suspect if your local meta is healthy and you reasonably expect a dozen players at a tourney then you think all is well. OTOH, if you are seeing reduced play in your area or your tourneys are in the half dozen player or less category then it's not being irrational to worry if your models might end up being for show. Perceptions matter and arguing that someone else perception is wrong because it's negative and not in line with the "facts" is pretty hard to do without being rude and wrong.

It sounds like Hero is looking at a trend and maybe being unable to see the curves bend the other way in the future, but I can tell you I really want to see the campaign get played and if it doesn't I'm going to hope to sell my figs before the game gets anymore obscure locally. I say this as a person who has sold only a couple game systems in almost four decades of gaming.

The flotillas needed to be out months ago, and I don't care about anything but results. If the releases disappear for this long again, the game is virtually done (which means it won't disappear just whither). You guys in the happy metas are not enough to support the game's production when the rest of the world stops caring.

So argue factoids and attitudes and ought to do's all you want. Hero isn't pulling a chicken little. Posting his opinion on this thread is not going to cause the game to fail. FFG should be concerned with what he is saying and try to do better by the Armada community even if they are victims of bad luck and wanted the flotillas out in April. You should mostly reconsider how you approach responses to posts from guys who see problems where you don't.

As for thinking the game companies are going to do the work to build communities without guys taking on unpaid jobs of doing it themselves that's just not going to happen. It should happen, but it really just won't. The model for that just hasn't been invented.

I don't know what data you are getting that says that the Flotillas should of been out months ago. Makes no sense to me.

We sadly don't get a dozen players. For a game like Armada, with size constraints and such, 8 usually the most in Portland, I think I did 10 once. It is a new game that is not cheap to get into, however, I won't let that be a factor for me to represent the ge. Someone has to do it and I love the game enough to be that person.

You miss the point. I don't care when Flotillas were supposed to be out. I'm pointing out that it doesn't matter why they are coming out so long after the last release. It was too long.

I can't tell you if they are better off keeping folks in the dark or not as to when the next release will be, but I can tell you the game is gathering dust due to lack of a fresh release.

If we get a campaign going that will help a lot. Otherwise, another wait until August will kill organized play in my area.

What numbers show that it was too late? Are you basing it off of X-Wing from the last 2 years? If so that is erroneous in its entirety since the game was 2 years old at that point.

What says it was too late? Hmmm maybe they did not want them messing with regionals which is highly likely.

http://icv2.com/articles/markets/view/33912/top-5-non-collectible-miniature-games-fall-2015

Third best selling non-collectable miniature game in Fall 2015. I believe we're still waiting on the Spring 2016 results, as I couldn't find those.

In some areas the meta is drying up but overall it seems to be doing fine. If your meta is struggling, you're going to see evidence that backs up your gut feeling everywhere. And then you're going to come to the forums and fight with people and tell us Armada is dead/dying. Then the rest of us are going to roll our eyes at you and then someone will say something about AdmiralNelson and we'll move on with life.

Only I did no such thing. I pointed out that if they repeat what's been happening it will stop growing and that companies are known to then kill the whole project or that they whither anyway. Also, if that's the whole of the data available there is nothing positive to be drawn from that. That's before the famine isn't it?

So you are using crud data and making threats of social ostracism based not really on the data but on your preference to strike out at anyone who questions, no matter how slightly, the assuredness of your cheese remaining in the same place. Odds are you will be fine unless you use this sort of thinking in your personal finances because there really is no guarantee Uncle Sugar will ever send you checks.

Crud data? You do realize that, that data is used by the company's right. They use that to determine where to go and Armada blew EVERYONE'S expectations out of the water.

I am sorry that organized play is dying in your area. I have no idea of why that could be. You should figure out what the real problem is becuase I DOUBT it is the release schedule. Maybe you and those players left should get together and make a plan.