Played a game last night, and it stinks that guys like Luke Skywalker came out before the "Rogue" keyword. So many lesser characters, like IG88, have Rogue, but Luke Skywalker doesn't?

It really stinks. Can I ask... has anyone come to a rough price cost for Rogue? I am considering doing a little house rule for it... something like "All named squadrons that don't have Rogue can add it for X number of points." Not ideal, I know, but I just don't see the originals being of much value any more compared to S&V.

Oh... and because eye candy...

Approximately 4 points - but you have to judge each squadron individually. Some might benefit more, others less. Pts adjusted accordingly.

I dont find not having rogue to be inhibitive.

My estimate was 3 points for the keyword. That said, rogue isn't about being a superior pilot, its about (not) following orders. Luke flew in formation under command of the hierarchy. Military formation has costs and advantages. One of the costs is that they will often await orders. Rogues don't need to wait for orders. Something many people don't seem to understand is that organizing large groups of people is slow, tedious, with lots of inefficiency. Parts of military formations don't usually have access to ALL information. As players of games, we represent an omniscient hive-mind. ALL of our units have the exact same knowledge, information, perspective, wisdom, insights, and opinions. That's simply not true on the battle field. Squadron movement can be rationalized as being less efficient to control for the hive mind player.

I'm guessing somewhere around 3 points. I don't think it is fair to give the ability itself a straight number because part of what makes units good is the combinations of all their abilities. So 3 abilities worth 3 points each might be worth 11 points of benefit. What you could do as a houserule is simply make it 4. Your opponent is most likely overpaying, but if for the purposes of roleplay, that's what they want to do, then you've got a houserule mechanic that keeps something broken from developing.

Rogue is about realizing the move or shoot thing annoys the hell out of many players, new and old.

It'll probably be a sliding scale, and I would expect speed to factor into it, something like:

C_r = X*C_b + Y*S

Where

C_ r is incremental cost to add rogue

C_b is original base cost of the ship

S is the speed of the ship

X and Y are some unknown constants

But yeah, in practice it comes out to around 3-4 points.

Example:

Would you pay:

16 pts for a Rogue Tycho?

17?

18?

19?

20?

Etc.

Would it be worth 4 pts to have a Speed 5 scatter squadron that can zip about, unhindered? Maybe, maybe not.

X and Y are some unknown constants

Hull and main battery? (AA for AA squads, ship for bombers)

BTW, my calculation simply comes from comparing the X-wing to the Aggressor. Start with the x-wing. Remove escort and add counter 1 plus rogue and 3 points. If you feel counter 1 equals escort, then rogue equals 3 points.

X and Y are some unknown constants

Hull and main battery? (AA for AA squads, ship for bombers)

No, just arbitrary constants to scale the result. Pretty much everything else is accounted for in the base cost of the squadron; speed is disproportionately valuable for rogues in that they are untethered from supporting carriers, imo, which is why I added a corrective term for it.

I don't find the lack of Rogue to be a hindrance at all.

Once bomber command center gets out, Luke, Keyan, and even Dutch will be well worth it without Rogue for their bombing runs.

Wedge, clearly, would benefit the most from having Rogue. Tycho would do well with it too, but that might make them a bit overpowered.

I like the comments about Rogue representing working outside of a military hierarchy. The only ships that have rogue are those that are somewhat self-sufficient, not squadrons.

Overall, I prefer to give squadron commands, even to ships that have rogue like the YTs. Obviously not if I have other ships that would benefit from the squadron command, but sometimes you need a ship to go right where you need it right when you need it instead of just waiting until the end of the turn. I find that the named squadrons NEED to be in specific places at specific times.

Add 6 points if your admiral is Rieekan.

If you are going to house rule points, it's always better to be cautious and overcost instead of undercost. As most people have said Rogue is probably close to 3 points, so make it cost 4 and you should be fine.

I mean, can we really say Rogue is worth 3?

I think static costing for Rogue is a huge problem. Though experiments:

Should rogue cost the same amount on an A-Wing, Tycho, a B-Wing, a Y-Wing, TIE Bombers, and Vader?

I, for one, would love running 11 TIE Bombers with rogue backed up by OE Raiders, but I'd have to wear a hockey mask for how often I would get punched in the face.

I mean, can we really say Rogue is worth 3?

I think static costing for Rogue is a huge problem. Though experiments:

Should rogue cost the same amount on an A-Wing, Tycho, a B-Wing, a Y-Wing, TIE Bombers, and Vader?

I, for one, would love running 11 TIE Bombers with rogue backed up by OE Raiders, but I'd have to wear a hockey mask for how often I would get punched in the face.

Well, if you are gonna house rule that means your opponent has to be okay with it, unless face punching is a term of endearment in your gaming group.

If you run into Konstantine: you'll want only navs most likely...how much is rogue worth now?

If you run into Konstantine: you'll want only navs most likely...how much is rogue worth now?

Probably not so much after I park my bwings in front of imperial medium sized ships.

If you run into Konstantine: you'll want only navs most likely...how much is rogue worth now?

Probably not so much after I park my bwings in front of imperial medium sized ships.

LOL

If you run into Konstantine: you'll want only navs most likely...how much is rogue worth now?

Probably not so much after I park my bwings in front of imperial medium sized ships.

*my speed 3 B-wings that I pushed with FCT.

Apparently rogue X wings are only worth one more point, minus escort...

If you run into Konstantine: you'll want only navs most likely...how much is rogue worth now?

Probably not so much after I park my bwings in front of imperial medium sized ships.

*my speed 3 B-wings that I pushed with FCT.

Whilst Mauler, Soontir and Dengar royally screw with you and meant fct didnt work....

Source: my konstantine fleet.

Rogue is worth:

1+Escort, with the addition of an Unique dot.

Ashram, non-rogue squadrons gain a huge boost with wave3 and wave4. The FCT upgrade, the Flight commander upgrade and being able to cheaply throw out 3 squadron commands from a flotilla make them much more viable. You get to glean every last penny of worth from those extra points you spent on good squadrons.

Example:

Would you pay:

16 pts for a Rogue Tycho?

17?

18?

19?

20?

Etc.

Would it be worth 4 pts to have a Speed 5 scatter squadron that can zip about, unhindered? Maybe, maybe not.

IG88 is 21 points with speed 5, 4 blue AS dice, black battery die, 5 hull and scatter that completely ignored defensive abilities.

20 points for an A-Wing that can't be locked down is fine.