So.... The developers mentioned there would be a direct counter to the u boats coming in wave 9. I guess heroes could be included. Originally i thought it might be the system upgrade come with the tie/sf. However, that is not the case. Also doesnt look like it comes with the arc either. My personal feeling is that it will b one of the fang fighter pilots, but not certain.

What are your thoughts? Have we seen a counter yet? They clearly mentioned a direct counter, not a nerf (like the faq). Thoughts?

Obviously it's Old Han.

Heroes seems to be treated as part of wave9 and that expansion has a ton of unspoiled goodies in there.

We still got the 2 scum ships (the cards might be the real answer not the scum ship, that'd be pretty low if the Scum got the answer to a Scum build) and Seismic Torps might not be anything at all like we were predicting in another thread.

Though i wouldnt put it past them to think rear arcs are a hard counter. Gives a nice advantage .. until the 2 white sloop and fire anyway.

I hope there isn't, U-Boats have been the best thing to happen to this game in a while.

No more regen NPE garbage. Go get 10 shield upgrades out of a single 3 or 4 point upgrade someplace else.

No more fat turret NPE garbage.

No more quad TLT.

The game is currently FANTASTIC with no skill-less rebel lists dominating anymore. Once Palp Aces is eliminated too we'll have the perfect game.

With U-boats being of the "Scum" faction, having a "scum" pilot being the counter to them wouldn't really be worth much to everyone. Since both "Rebel" and "Imperial" have already been revealed, the counter would have to either be an upgrade card or there wasn't one included in the base wave 9 package.

if you find a way to drop their focus so they can't overclock, you'll have a counter

this could've been r3 astro (when defending, before the Modify Dice Step, spend your focus to remove a focus from the attacker), but alas FFG dropped the ball hard

all we're left with, so far, is Debris Clouds or w.e (the deployable debris templates from the Shadowcaster expac), which seem to come out of the "Rigged Cargo Hold" illicit

it's either Large Ship or Lancer-etc. Only , but given the card art shows the Falcon fleeing an ISD, it's probably large ship only illicit

so, YVs/Sprays/aggressors/jm5ks (the irony)/the shadowcaster itself, as well as the rebel YTs thanks to Heroes giving them an illicit slot

simply because jm5ks have large bases and can't ordnance without a focus action , which debris would deny them

of course, this is easier said than done because it's FAR easier to torp at range 2-3 than deploy a debris field from the butt (most likely) at a PS lower than 3 (otherwise the jm5ks will have moved and focused already), but it exists

I would not put it past FFG to include Scum counters against their own U-boats.

I personally consider Omega Leader, the Inquisitor and Wampa to be threats that work specially well against other Imperial ships.

simply because jm5ks have large bases and can't ordnance without a focus action , which debris would deny them

of course, this is easier said than done because it's FAR easier to torp at range 2-3 than deploy a debris field from the butt (most likely) at a PS lower than 3 (otherwise the jm5ks will have moved and focused already), but it exists

This got me thinking.

The ARC-170 comes with a copy of Adrenaline Rush, and the Shadowcaster comes with the debris dropper. Combine the two and you can K-turn in front of them and drop the debris cloud right in front of them.

On the Shadowcaster, you can also combine the SLAM-action-granting card from Heroes with Advanced Slam and the debris. That may turn out to be a lot of points and severely limits your options, but.... it can be done.

if "Burst of Speed" turns out to be a one use SLAM (hence "burst) it probably won't be worth dropping points on A-SLAM

A-rush, though...well, scouts got an ept slot don't they ?

4k it up

I hope there isn't, U-Boats have been the best thing to happen to this game in a while.

No more regen NPE garbage. Go get 10 shield upgrades out of a single 3 or 4 point upgrade someplace else.

No more fat turret NPE garbage.

No more quad TLT.

The game is currently FANTASTIC with no skill-less rebel lists dominating anymore. Once Palp Aces is eliminated too we'll have the perfect game.

This new "better" iteration of R3 is stupid broken on Wes. Guess that's why you aren't on the dev team.

I hope there isn't, U-Boats have been the best thing to happen to this game in a while.

No more regen NPE garbage. Go get 10 shield upgrades out of a single 3 or 4 point upgrade someplace else.

No more fat turret NPE garbage.

No more quad TLT.

The game is currently FANTASTIC with no skill-less rebel lists dominating anymore. Once Palp Aces is eliminated too we'll have the perfect game.

This new "better" iteration of R3 is stupid broken on Wes. Guess that's why you aren't on the dev team.

Not seeing the issue.

I hope there isn't, U-Boats have been the best thing to happen to this game in a while.

No more regen NPE garbage. Go get 10 shield upgrades out of a single 3 or 4 point upgrade someplace else.

No more fat turret NPE garbage.

No more quad TLT.

The game is currently FANTASTIC with no skill-less rebel lists dominating anymore. Once Palp Aces is eliminated too we'll have the perfect game.

This new "better" iteration of R3 is stupid broken on Wes. Guess that's why you aren't on the dev team.

Misquote aside, Such a ship is doing little but stripping tokens off a single ship. You'd have to count on the rest of your list for offense, and Elite X-wing's are not exactly durable for their cost.

Not seeing the issue.

the issue is he has no idea what actually constitutes a "broken" or powerful ship in this game

especially considering he's talking about a fragile X-wing that can get mowed down by naked dice due to its horrendous efficiency and an ability that only stacks atop the better r3 if he is shooting at the target

not to mention an ability + astro that do nothing against token independent modifiers such as

1. palpatine
2. predator
3. lone-wolf
4. howlrunner
5. guidance chip
6. ATC/backdraft

etc.

not even getting into effects such as crackshot or guaranteed damage effects

all this and we're not even touching how Wes himself would be completely unmodified due to spending focus on the hypothetical astro instead of his own dice, or how that r3 would do nothing if you simply don't shoot Wes or if he simply does not have a focus (bumped, stressed, obstacled...)

I hope there isn't, U-Boats have been the best thing to happen to this game in a while.

No more regen NPE garbage. Go get 10 shield upgrades out of a single 3 or 4 point upgrade someplace else.

No more fat turret NPE garbage.

No more quad TLT.

The game is currently FANTASTIC with no skill-less rebel lists dominating anymore. Once Palp Aces is eliminated too we'll have the perfect game.

This new "better" iteration of R3 is stupid broken on Wes. Guess that's why you aren't on the dev team.

Misquote aside, Such a ship is doing little but stripping tokens off a single ship. You'd have to count on the rest of your list for offense, and Elite X-wing's are not exactly durable for their cost.

Not seeing the issue.

With Biggs and R4-D6, you can force a regen Poe or stripped down Corran into the end game, and you have enough points for a Wes or Wedge with a few upgrades, I wouldn't write them off.

They simply cannot attack your fragile Wes without getting through Biggs first. Then they have to ge through Wes.

Now you have a regen ship in the end game. You've won.

I imagine you could also go Biggs R4-D6 Integrated, PS 8 Poe with Draw their Fire (to take crits for Biggs since R4-D6 only works against regular hits), r5-p9, Autothrusters, and Ten Numb with Plasma Torpedoes, Extra Munitions, Guidance Chips, and VI or whatever for your last point. Guidance Chips on Ten converts anything into a crit since his primary attack value is 3. And since one of his criticals cannot be evaded, you get at least one damage through AND an extra one for plasmas if they have shields.

Biggs with R4-D6 allows you to have one of those pricey X-Wings or B-Wings with strong abilities that don't have any durability and a regen Poe.

So when Rebel players complain about none of their builds being viable, I have no sympathy. They have options, they just don't want to have to play anything that isn't a fat turret or some green straight 1 to victory regen ship, even though Poe is perfectly viable with Biggs .

oh i got it!

The wave9 expansions will include this!

"there is no secret ingredient..."

So it sounds more like Rebel players should be complaining about being forced to use Biggs in a list, not straight green 1's and regen Poe

And as to the OP, the direct counter to U-boats is being better with your U-boats

oh i got it!

The wave9 expansions will include this!

"there is no secret ingredient..."

except there will be something written on it

"go right"

I hope there isn't, U-Boats have been the best thing to happen to this game in a while.

No more regen NPE garbage. Go get 10 shield upgrades out of a single 3 or 4 point upgrade someplace else.

No more fat turret NPE garbage.

No more quad TLT.

The game is currently FANTASTIC with no skill-less rebel lists dominating anymore. Once Palp Aces is eliminated too we'll have the perfect game.

Right, there's nothing NPE about a ship getting removed from the board in the first round of shooting...

Now you have a regen ship in the end game. You've won.

Didn't you just say regen was NPE? Oh, right, unless you're flying it. Go away already.

Maybe the "hard counter" comes out in wave 10 and he got them mixed up.

What are your thoughts? Have we seen a counter yet? They clearly mentioned a direct counter, not a nerf (like the faq). Thoughts?

Seismic Torpedoes would be my guess.

We're having a discussion on a particular Wave IX ship in this thread, "Old Teroch" and what his ability could be: https://community.fantasyflightgames.com/topic/225329-old-teroch-speculation/

Someone brought a great point:

Waitaminute. What if he's an ordnance counter?

"At the start of the combat phase

you may choose one enemy ship at

Range 1 and choose a <missile> or <torpedo> upgrade equipped to

it, discard that card and any tokens on it."

I hope there isn't, U-Boats have been the best thing to happen to this game in a while.

No more regen NPE garbage. Go get 10 shield upgrades out of a single 3 or 4 point upgrade someplace else.

No more fat turret NPE garbage.

No more quad TLT.

The game is currently FANTASTIC with no skill-less rebel lists dominating anymore. Once Palp Aces is eliminated too we'll have the perfect game.

Right, there's nothing NPE about a ship getting removed from the board in the first round of shooting...

Now you have a regen ship in the end game. You've won.

Didn't you just say regen was NPE? Oh, right, unless you're flying it. Go away already.

1.) It's certainly less of an NPE than playing a game against Palp Aces where all of your attacks are secretly worthless and you're just wasting an hour+. The idea that you get to play the game longer against Palp Aces is just an illusion, because none of your attacks or maneuvers for that matter have any real value, the Palp Aces player is the only player actually playing the game.

2.) I never make that claim that what I fly isn't skill-less or isn't NPE based.

I flew quad TLT when wave 7 first came out just to spite fat turret players.

I won a store championship with a 59 point PS 10 Imperial Boba with EU and Proton Bombs, and a PS 11 Prockets Vader and a 3 point initiative bid, all the while saying things like, "See, you don't have to be good at predicting your opponent, all you need is higher pilot skill and boost" after I pulled off some boost that put me into a crazy good spot that I stumbled into.

I record how much value I get from Palpatine each game with my Inquisitor Vessery Palp Shuttle list, and then talk about how broken he is with opponents.

Today I plan to bring my double APT Dengaroo squad in an attempt to get a regular opponent to scoop against me. I've gotten him to do it with a triple stressing Ghost with TLT FCS Gunner Tactician before the Tactician nerf. It will be quite hilarious to watch him maybe lose an entire Aggressor in one round.

I flew 86 double Phantom before the nerf. List was broken as ****.

I actually agree that U-Boats are broken and OP, but they're less of a problem than Palp Aces and resemble Joustwing more, so I advocate for a Palp Aces nerf instead of a U-Boat nerf.

I'm capable of seeing that the squads I play are broken and NPE based. Regen is an NPE, regardless of who is playing it. As I'm playing these squads at the FLGS I'm telling my opponent that they're super broken.

Yo, this got heated in a rush.

What's "NPE" stand for?

Yo, this got heated in a rush.

What's "NPE" stand for?

Negative Play Experience. A fancy way of saying, "not fun".

Yo, this got heated in a rush.

What's "NPE" stand for?

Negative Play Experience. A fancy way of saying, "not fun".

Goomba himself is a NPE, no matter what he flies. ^-^

im normally not the type to feed into the discussion like whats going on here but Goomba does tend to cause a lot of heat in the threads. Fickle can too but nowhere near as bad.

Palpaces/rebel regen is nowhere near as powerful as people make it out to be. They lose to it ONCE they think its amazing on the internet. I beat them all the time purely because they are standard lists and thus do the same bloody thing every game so i can predict/counter their movement with ease: when people throw shoehorns in the mix like an Expert Handling decimator thats when i start having issues predicting people.

Palpaces simply cannot evade your entire list if you dont try to get range1 with everybody all the time. Learn to plan for Range2 shots, not range1.

Rebelregen does nothing if you vaporize the ship in 1 go: first time i faced regen Poe i only sent two tie shmucks after him - big mistake i quickly learned. Next time i faced him i pincer'd his ass and took him out in 1 round. No regen for you!

EVERYBODY compares ships 1on1 and for some reason include palp in those vacuum comparisons. Stop doing that, think with an entire list, and you will do a LOT better. Dont ever think about spreading and acting alone as a ship if you face a palpace, uboat, or rebel regen. Every single move you make should have a thought about the effect it has on your other ships BEFORE you actually make the move.

Theres a reason i posted the Kung Fu Panda joke earlier...lol