Rolls, rules and you.

By nikk whyte, in X-Wing Rules Questions

People keep keep using the HLC as a gateway to rolls being different than rerolls, but HLC specifies "immediately."

Threepio doesn't, he only requests that dice be rolling.

The "immediately" argument again...

It has been shown over and over and over again that the word "immediately" holds no meaning in X-Wing. There are a ton of examples of cards that have the exact same trigger but one has "immediately" and the other doesn't - yet the player still gets to resolve them in the order of his choice.

Received this answer:

In response to your rules question:
Rules Question:

Can the C3P0 Crew card work on Reroll or does it work on Roll only. Put another way, is there a rule difference between a Roll and a Reroll.

C-3PO only works when you (initially) roll dice. Rolls and rerolls are different game concepts. If something has the timing of “when you roll dice” it does not trigger from a reroll.
Thanks for playing,

Frank Brooks
Associate Creative Content Developer
Fantasy Flight Games

So it seems Roll and ReRoll are not the same thing in this game.
By the way, this have nothing to do with (before modifying dice), this part is there to prevent people saying: "I will use a focus to put proper number of evade result". This was there because many people try to "imply" stuff in card just because they don't say to not do it. So by adding (before modifying dice) they make it clear you can't modify the dice. They don't use card text to suddently define game concept. Roll and ReRoll would still be different even if they did not say (before modifying dice) on the card. And even without it you would still not be able to use C3P0 on ReRoll. They did not use that on HLC and you still do not do it on ReRoll.

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Glad this is settled!

Unfortunately, based on previous cases of email answers I expect someone will comment that "it's just an email, it's not an official ruling unless it's in the FAQ"...

gmg7s5bBQzlN6.gif

Glad this is settled!

Unfortunately, based on previous cases of email answers I expect someone will comment that "it's just an email, it's not an official ruling unless it's in the FAQ"...

Well it's not, even though I agree with it - email rulings have been completely reversed in FAQs before, c.f. GONK/EI.

But it's enough for now.

Well it's not, even though I agree with it - email rulings have been completely reversed in FAQs before, c.f. GONK/EI.

But it's enough for now.

Yes, the Gonk/EI ruling was reversed. That doesn't mean the email ruling wasn't valid until the FAQ came out. And it certainly doesn't mean all futur email rulings should be ignored!

Cause with logic like that... Cards have been changed by errata in the FAQ, right? ;)

Edited by Klutz

FAQ rulings have been reversed by the FAQ before. I don't consider a ruling official until I agree with it.

The "before modifying dice" is just to specify that you validate the guess was (in)correct before modifying defense dice:

  • C-3P0 guesses X evades
  • Roll defense dice
  • CHECK IF C-3P0 GUESS WAS SUCCESSFUL HERE
  • Attacker modifies defense dice
  • Defender modifies defense dice
  • NOT HERE

This was exactly the point I was trying to make before in my statements about the "before modifying dice" being in parentheses, I just also added a section where it was happening during a reroll due to the OP question.

But, since we have the official answer for rerolls, and I am good with that, I did just have another thought in regards to the timing of actually adding 3PO's evade result. Given that the order in the timing chart has the attacker modifying dice before the defender and that adding a result is modifying dice would 3POs additional result actually be subject to Zuccus in the first place? Yes the guess has to happen prior to rolling, yes you have to guess correctly prior to any modifications to get the addition, but then all it says is add 1 evade result and that shouldn't happen until the defender can modify defence dice right? Or have I over thought this and the 3PO add has to happen as soon as you check because of his trigger of guessing happening outside of the normal flow on the chart?

But, since we have the official answer for rerolls, and I am good with that, I did just have another thought in regards to the timing of actually adding 3PO's evade result. Given that the order in the timing chart has the attacker modifying dice before the defender and that adding a result is modifying dice would 3POs additional result actually be subject to Zuccus in the first place? Yes the guess has to happen prior to rolling, yes you have to guess correctly prior to any modifications to get the addition, but then all it says is add 1 evade result and that shouldn't happen until the defender can modify defence dice right? Or have I over thought this and the 3PO add has to happen as soon as you check because of his trigger of guessing happening outside of the normal flow on the chart?

Yes, 3PO's added evade result happens before the normal modify dice steps, and would therefore be subject to Zuckuss. I'll edit in a citation if I can find one quickly.

ETA: For citation I have a Frankmail quoted in the Juke vs C3-PO [sic] thread.

Edited by digitalbusker

I concur with digitalbusker's comment.

Yes FAQ reversed email answer in the past, but not about basic rules. Here this is basic game term about stuff... I would doubt that suddently they decide that Roll and Reroll are now the same thing, or that touching is not a game term anymore.

That's why I phrased my question like it. To make sure the answer would be about Roll and Reroll and not about a weird card interaction.

But, since we have the official answer for rerolls, and I am good with that, I did just have another thought in regards to the timing of actually adding 3PO's evade result. Given that the order in the timing chart has the attacker modifying dice before the defender and that adding a result is modifying dice would 3POs additional result actually be subject to Zuccus in the first place? Yes the guess has to happen prior to rolling, yes you have to guess correctly prior to any modifications to get the addition, but then all it says is add 1 evade result and that shouldn't happen until the defender can modify defence dice right? Or have I over thought this and the 3PO add has to happen as soon as you check because of his trigger of guessing happening outside of the normal flow on the chart?

Yes, 3PO's added evade result happens before the normal modify dice steps, and would therefore be subject to Zuckuss. I'll edit in a citation if I can find one quickly.

ETA: For citation I have a Frankmail quoted in the Juke vs C3-PO [sic] thread.

OK, so yep over thinking.