So there was this thread some time ago but as we did agreed above, the HLC example is irrelevant (wording is different and the situation is different).

Now, the question is if we stay in line with the rules reference or we assume they are different even though there are no separate definition of a roll. Rules reference says "• Reroll: To reroll a die result, pick up the die and roll it again.". Because of those 2 words, I would say that you may use C3-PO with Flight Instructor, Lone Wolf and similar abilities.

I am wondering if there will be any FAQ for that...

OK.

Have you asked FFG for a clarification yet?

C3P0 says it all right on the card.

"Once per round, before you roll 1 or more
defense dice, you may guess aloud a number
of evade results. If you roll that many evade
results (before modifying dice), add 1 evade
result."

That statement about modifying dice makes it pretty clear. You can only use C3P0 to modify your Natural result. C3P0 only works before modifying the result. The result is already established when Zuckuss forces the reroll.

All the times you are able to use C3P0 are instances where he affects natural results. He doesn't work on any rerolls. That's why it says "(before modifying dice)". Rerolls are a modification of the dice and C3P0 only works on the results that occur before that.

C3P0 says it all right on the card.

"Once per round, before you roll 1 or more

defense dice, you may guess aloud a number

of evade results. If you roll that many evade

results (before modifying dice), add 1 evade

result."

That statement about modifying dice makes it pretty clear. You can only use C3P0 to modify your Natural result. C3P0 only works before modifying the result. The result is already established when Zuckuss forces the reroll.

All the times you are able to use C3P0 are instances where he affects natural results. He doesn't work on any rerolls. That's why it says "(before modifying dice)". Rerolls are a modification of the dice and C3P0 only works on the results that occur before that.

Except that the "before modifying dice" is in parentheses right after the statement "If you roll that many evade results" this means the number of evade results you guessed has to be correct prior to modifying dice. What it does not mean is that the only time you can use 3PO is prior to modifying dice. For it to mean that it would not have been in parentheses in the middle of the instructions for when you can add the evade result.

C3P0 requires declaring a guess of evade results prior to rolling of a green defense dice. There is no where that says this is limited to combat.

The outcome is based on the rolled result prior to any modifications, such as a focus.

The initial roll requires rolling green dice. A required reroll requires rolling green dice.

Lando reqiuires rolling of defense dice.

So any time prior to rolling a green die, you may activate C3PO and guess the outcome.

Alright, I'll do it.

I've never submitted a question to FFG (Frank and Alex?) - How does one do that?

https://asmodee.us/en/contact/rules/

Done. Although, X-Wing was not an option for the associated Product Line.. I put "Starfighter" because that was closest to X-Wing, haha

Here is what I asked:

https://www.fantasyflightgames.com/en/contact/rules/ might be a better fit. X-Wing is in the Product Line dropdown, for starters.

I think your question is overly complicated...

The question should have been:

Can the C3P0 Crew card work on Reroll or does it work on Roll only. Put another way, is there a rule difference between a Roll and a Reroll.

Edit: I just done it anyway.

I think your question is overly complicated...

The question should have been:

Can the C3P0 Crew card work on Reroll or does it work on Roll only. Put another way, is there a rule difference between a Roll and a Reroll.

Edit: I just done it anyway.

Thanks for the input!

C3P0 says it all right on the card.

"Once per round, before you roll 1 or more

defense dice, you may guess aloud a number

of evade results. If you roll that many evade

results (before modifying dice), add 1 evade

result."

That statement about modifying dice makes it pretty clear. You can only use C3P0 to modify your Natural result. C3P0 only works before modifying the result. The result is already established when Zuckuss forces the reroll.

All the times you are able to use C3P0 are instances where he affects natural results. He doesn't work on any rerolls. That's why it says "(before modifying dice)". Rerolls are a modification of the dice and C3P0 only works on the results that occur before that.

Except that the "before modifying dice" is in parentheses right after the statement "If you roll that many evade results" this means the number of evade results you guessed has to be correct prior to modifying dice. What it does not mean is that the only time you can use 3PO is prior to modifying dice. For it to mean that it would not have been in parentheses in the middle of the instructions for when you can add the evade result.

Your own words

"...this means the number of evade results you guessed has to be correct prior to modifying dice."

The OP essentially is asking if C3P0 can be used on a reroll.

The Rules:

Dice can be modified in the following ways:

• Reroll: To reroll a die result, pick up the die and

roll it again.

From the FAQ

When a player is instructed to reroll a number of dice, he must choose all of

the dice that he will reroll before rerolling any.

"Reroll" is a game term with a specific definition which describes one of the ways a player may modify dice. As part of performing a reroll, one of the things we do is "...pick up the die and roll it again." By doing this, we have modified the result. C3P0 can only add an evade to an UNMODIFIED result. Therefore he can not add a result to a reroll.

We can take the first sentence of C3P0 and do it once per round. We can only add the evade result if the guess was correct before modifying dice. Rerolling is a modification. The result after a reroll is a modified result. We do not get to add the evade to a modified result.

C3P0 says it all right on the card.

"Once per round, before you roll 1 or more

defense dice, you may guess aloud a number

of evade results. If you roll that many evade

results (before modifying dice), add 1 evade

result."

That statement about modifying dice makes it pretty clear. You can only use C3P0 to modify your Natural result. C3P0 only works before modifying the result. The result is already established when Zuckuss forces the reroll.

All the times you are able to use C3P0 are instances where he affects natural results. He doesn't work on any rerolls. That's why it says "(before modifying dice)". Rerolls are a modification of the dice and C3P0 only works on the results that occur before that.

Except that the "before modifying dice" is in parentheses right after the statement "If you roll that many evade results" this means the number of evade results you guessed has to be correct prior to modifying dice. What it does not mean is that the only time you can use 3PO is prior to modifying dice. For it to mean that it would not have been in parentheses in the middle of the instructions for when you can add the evade result.

Your own words

"...this means the number of evade results you guessed has to be correct prior to modifying dice."

The OP essentially is asking if C3P0 can be used on a reroll.

The Rules:

Dice can be modified in the following ways:

• Reroll: To reroll a die result, pick up the die and

roll it again.

From the FAQ

When a player is instructed to reroll a number of dice, he must choose all of

the dice that he will reroll before rerolling any.

"Reroll" is a game term with a specific definition which describes one of the ways a player may modify dice. As part of performing a reroll, one of the things we do is "...pick up the die and roll it again." By doing this, we have modified the result. C3P0 can only add an evade to an UNMODIFIED result. Therefore he can not add a result to a reroll.

We can take the first sentence of C3P0 and do it once per round. We can only add the evade result if the guess was correct before modifying dice. Rerolling is a modification. The result after a reroll is a modified result. We do not get to add the evade to a modified result.

You are still applying the wording on the card to the wrong step in the process. Look, this should be the order of steps that would flow in the OPs question:

1. Ship with Zuckuss crew attacks ship with 3PO

2. Defender does NOT declare 3PO and rolls his defence dice (the fact that 3PO was not declared here is a very important part of the question due to the "once per round" part of the card because if he did declare it now he would not be able to for the re-roll because that would be twice in one round)

3. Attacker declares Zuckuss and forces defender to re-roll (yes this is a modification of the defenders dice, no this is not the modification step being talked about on the 3PO card thanks to the parentheses around it)

4. Defender decides this time to declare 3PO and makes a guess of how many evade results he will get. (this would be the biggest part of the OPs question here, can he do this now since he didn't the first time he rolled)

5. Defender looks at his dice to see if he got his guess correct as stated on the 3PO card to compare the guess to the results prior to modification

6. Defender can now make any modifications available to him like using a focus or evade token (this would be the modification step mentioned on the card)

Now, it is possible that a ruling from FFG can specifically state that the above sequence is not valid due to 3PO not being allowed on re-rolls and I will be wrong. But until then this is how reading the card should work.

Here's a question for everyone who thinks C-3P0 can be used on re-rolls:

I'm flying Leebo + Lone Wolf + C-3P0. Can I use C-3P0 on a Lone Wolf re-roll?

Just so we're clear, this is the scenario I'm thinking of:
I roll 2 dice, get evade + blank, use Lone Wolf to re-roll the blank and declare C-3P0 (guess 0) on the re-roll to guarantee a total of 2 evades. By guessing on the re-roll instead of initial roll, I am

This is a scenario that has been possible for a few waves now.

Here's a thread from January 2015: https://community.fantasyflightgames.com/topic/131512-c3po-and-lw-reroll/

The conclusion, which is the same one that applies to the interaction with Zuckuss is that a re-roll is not the same as a roll (see HLC), therefore you cannot use C-3P0 on a re-roll from Zuckuss/Flight Instructor/Lone Wolf/Ibtisam or other.

I do not understand why many of you have decided to ignore the HLC precedent regarding the difference between a roll and re-roll?

Because HLC has both different wording and the rule was clarified by a FAQ entry, without reference to the question asked in this thread.

Though, I can see a point in logic of ObiOneToo . It is not written but I think that we need to differentiate a roll (picking up dice and rolling as an act) and rolling dice (as a part of game mechanics that were not defined yet). If we assume that C3-PO refers to the first, then re-rolls apply (seems obvious, and that was my standing so far), though if the correct one is the other then we need to consider "rolling one or more defense dice" as a game mechanic, that is finished after all applicable modifications, while C3-PO may be used only before those, to grant an evade (hence you cannot do a defense roll with one die, guess 1, roll blank, reroll LW, get evade, say that now you have an evade hence the guess was correct).

As of today, I think that both are probable, although I would love to see C3-PO rather more useful if possible

Because HLC has both different wording and the rule was clarified by a FAQ entry, without reference to the question asked in this thread.

Heavy Laser Cannon card text: Immediately after rolling your attack dice, you must change all of your critical results to hit results.

C-3P0 card text: Once per round, before you roll 1 or more defense dice, you may guess aloud a number of evade results. If you roll that many evade results (before modifying dice), add 1 evade result.

The cards do not have different wording. The pertinent parts are "after rolling [...] dice" and "before you roll [...] dice". The only differences in wording are before/after and verb tense - neither of these minor differences change the rules implications.

Heavy Laser Cannon FAQ entry: After an attack is performed using Heavy Laser Cannon and all results are changed to results, the attack dice can be modified as normal. Any attack dice rerolled are not changed from results to results.

The FAQ ruling was specifially made to answer the question asked in this thread.

The question referencing HLC: "Does a re-roll count as a roll and trigger HLC's effect?"

The question referencing C-3P0: "Does a re-roll count as a roll and trigger C-3P0's ability?"

The FAQ says no .

Because HLC has both different wording and the rule was clarified by a FAQ entry, without reference to the question asked in this thread.

Heavy Laser Cannon card text: Immediately after rolling your attack dice, you must change all of your critical results to hit results.

C-3P0 card text: Once per round, before you roll 1 or more defense dice, you may guess aloud a number of evade results. If you roll that many evade results (before modifying dice), add 1 evade result.

The cards do not have different wording. The pertinent parts are "after rolling [...] dice" and "before you roll [...] dice". The only differences in wording are before/after and verb tense - neither of these minor differences change the rules implications.

Heavy Laser Cannon FAQ entry: After an attack is performed using Heavy Laser Cannon and all results are changed to results, the attack dice can be modified as normal. Any attack dice rerolled are not changed from results to results.

The FAQ ruling was specifially made to answer the question asked in this thread.

The question referencing HLC: "Does a re-roll count as a roll and trigger HLC's effect?"

The question referencing C-3P0: "Does a re-roll count as a roll and trigger C-3P0's ability?"

The FAQ says no .

I would say that the biggest difference is that 3PO is not an "automatic trigger" card but a "I choose to use" card. The question on HLC was can this happen twice if there is a re-roll and the question on 3PO is if I don't do this on the first roll can I do it on the second. The lone wolf example does present an interesting possible problem and I will say it should be up to FFG how they want it to work.

I would say that the biggest difference is that 3PO is not an "automatic trigger" card but a "I choose to use" card. The question on HLC was can this happen twice if there is a re-roll and the question on 3PO is if I don't do this on the first roll can I do it on the second. The lone wolf example does present an interesting possible problem and I will say it should be up to FFG how they want it to work.

The difference between an mandatory effect and an optional effect is irrelevant.

The fact that C-3P0 is "once per round" is also irrelevant.

The HLC ruling marks a clear distinction between a "roll" and a "re-roll". This has been an accepted fact for a long time now (HLC came out in wave 2!) and there is no ruling to indicate this has changed.

I would say that the biggest difference is that 3PO is not an "automatic trigger" card but a "I choose to use" card. The question on HLC was can this happen twice if there is a re-roll and the question on 3PO is if I don't do this on the first roll can I do it on the second. The lone wolf example does present an interesting possible problem and I will say it should be up to FFG how they want it to work.

The difference between an mandatory effect and an optional effect is irrelevant.

The fact that C-3P0 is "once per round" is also irrelevant.

The HLC ruling marks a clear distinction between a "roll" and a "re-roll". This has been an accepted fact for a long time now (HLC came out in wave 2!) and there is no ruling to indicate this has changed.

I don't understand how you can say any of it is irrelevant but I don't want to argue about it anymore. The question has been put forward to FFG and I intend to wait and see what the answer they give is. Personally I have yet to play a game with anyone using 3PO and I fly Empire so I don't have to worry about it for my lists so I can be patient.

The thing is, Klutz is quite correct in that the "once per round" and mandatory/optional effects are both irrelevant to this argument. They aren't the points that are in question here. The point is can C-3P0 be used on a reroll?

The answer is on C-3P0's card. " ... If you roll that many <evade> results ( before modifying dice ), add 1 <evade> result. ". And argue all you like, but a reroll is modifying dice . If you're trying to apply C-3P0 to a reroll , then you're trying to guess while modifying the dice, and his card says you can't do that. And the inclusion of parenthesis around a part of the text really doesn't change anything in the slightest.

If the subject of "before modifying dice" is the "you" mentioned before hand, then outside ships can't affect threepio's ability, because we know that "you" only means the ship he is on.

If the subject of "before modifying dice" is the "you" mentioned before hand, then outside ships can't affect threepio's ability, because we know that "you" only means the ship he is on.

The "before modifying dice" part has no impact on the "can you use C-3P0 on re-rolls" question.

If the subject of "before modifying dice" is the "you" mentioned before hand, then outside ships can't affect threepio's ability, because we know that "you" only means the ship he is on.

The "before modifying dice" part has no impact on the "can you use C-3P0 on re-rolls" question.

He's right - because the guess takes place before the re-roll - the re-roll being the actual modification.

The "before modifying dice" is just to specify that you validate the guess was (in)correct before modifying defense dice:

• C-3P0 guesses X evades
• Roll defense dice
• CHECK IF C-3P0 GUESS WAS SUCCESSFUL HERE
• Attacker modifies defense dice
• Defender modifies defense dice
• NOT HERE

This is the scenario this thread is about:

• Roll defense dice
• Attacker modifies defense dice
  • Make defender re-roll N dice with Zuckuss
    • C-3P0 guesses X evades
    • Re-roll defense dice
    • Check if C-3P0 guess was successful
• Defender modifies defense dice

People keep keep using the HLC as a gateway to rolls being different than rerolls, but HLC specifies "immediately."

Threepio doesn't, he only requests that dice be rolling.