Hello guys !

So, I had a very interesting game today where I was facing a large squadron force with only Dash and Han on my side (yes, I wanted to keep playing the Imperials, but just a short Rebel game aside isn't cheating, right ? ). Because an AAR isn't the point of this thread, it raised several questions about how squadron fit in the general strategy of a game, and most especially how they are managed by ships.

I really wanted to know how you set up your squadron management strategy ! Is it using a dedicated carrier ? Is it having squadrons being "activations on demand" by multiple ships throughout the course of the game ? I'm really, really curious about that !

For my part, most of my gaming group and I tend to go for dedicated carriers in order to optimize the investment in squadron related upgrade cards. But after seeing how Rogues and Villains operate detached from ship activations, I'm actually wondering whether it's appropriate to build a squadron force independently, then use the different ships and command values to activate the squadrons at the most appropriate time.

No squadrons- problem solved haha. But unfortunately that will not be possible anymore come wave three =/. At that point I will field probably mostly non-rogue squads, with the same amount of squads as squadron value for my fleet. (Maybe an extra pair to fill in as squads get blow'd up)

Delay the enemy squadrons if possible, kill the carrier, get out before they hit hard enough to be a problem.

I generally go into building a squadron-centric list with the a general idea of what I want from the squadrons (for me, this is usually "how can I stuff more B-wings in this list?"). I build and finagle the squadrons till I'm relatively satisfied, then I build the fleet around supporting the squadrons optimally.

It's depending the kind of game that you want to play?

When I decide to go more with capital ship, I will select more rogue for their ability to fly by themselves.

When I want a more diversify fleet, I will choose my ship in fonction of their carrier ability. Alot of squadrons without any carrier it's a real pain in the ###. It worth something but you will loose alot of power during your turn. The fact that activated squadrons can move and shoot (or vis versa) is something that you don't want to put aside.

One of the best thing with this game is the fact that their is no "good" way to make thing's happen. A false move a the wrong moment and you can fail the rest of your game. And those "mistake" can be use by you if your foe don't realise it. That the part of the game where you need to keep you best poker face. It's like a game of chess but with giant SW ship and really funnier

You want to try a no squadron list? Go ahead, do it! Maybe you will loose because your opponent put something really hard to counter without any figther on your side but perhaps, it will be the opposite. That decision will bring you a fast victory. When the capital ship are no more there, all those squadron have no more value. Yes, Wave III will bring some difficulty for that kind of list (merely no squadron) but you don't know what will really happen at the end until you are there.

Have fun with crazy list!

I mostly go with either a dedicated carrier or no fighters, just make sure most if not all ships have two AA dice. I do not use the Rimmer ball on purpose, so when I use fighters it is mostly the Rogues as I am very far into the camp that thinks three hit fighters are just 100% a waste of points. I have been more and more going to the no fighters and finding it works quite well, I do not see anything in wave three or four that will change that.

I have a dedicated idea of what I want and I build around that idea. From there it all depends on the idea. Will the TIEs do their own thing and I activate them early turn 3 to get a surprise attack? Do I use Wing Commander so that I can adjust my plan accordingly?

So many ideas. . .

For me it comes down to the fact that squadrons have two key roles: 1. They hold up/stop enemy squadrons from attacking you. 2. They attack enemy ships. The central question is how much you want one or the other to be a factor in your list. Too much anti-squadron and if your opponent brings no or light squads, you've burned a lot of points. Too much anti-ship and the enemy squads will eat you alive. I play a lot of lists with maneuverable hard-hitting ships in which the squadrons tie up enemy squads first and only secondarily attack ships. You've got to be sure you can win the ship-to-ship battle without your squads.

From there, I think many of the squads are doable, you just need a specific plan for that squad. Likewise, you've got a lot of different carrier options from which to activate squads. They all work, but an MC80 Command build will play differently from an Assault Frigate build, which will play differently than Yavaris stuffed into either list or both of them stuffed into the same list together. For that matter, I've seen 5 activation light lists that used Corvettes or Raiders to activate squads.

134 Points of Basic Squadrons, as much as possible... Then usually at least 2 ships with 3+ Squadron Value...

Some are active, some are move-passive-engage...

Currently I just have tycho. Whichever command 1 ship which is near can throw him in to the fight.

Used to be Tycho, Awing, yt2400, yt2400, but the same logic applied. Command 1 is more useful than carrier squadron valyes

Hey guys ! Very interesting strategies so far, keep them coming

So, yeah, so far there are multiple types of management out there from the single carrier to support a specific squadron build to the more flexible approaches out there including the Rogues. It's a pretty cool read actually !

From my part, I usually went with a dedicated carrier build, but now I'm really interested in giving a specific role to the squadron force and spreading out the squadron commands on a need basis, in order to also spread out the Engineering Commands which I find I wasn't using as much as I should have So, in a sense, decorrelating the squadron force from a specific carrier.

I mean, upgrades like Flight Controllers are harder to plan for when they are put on a 3 command ship, because you might not need them after all.

I play mainly imperial, and while everyonce and a while I'll bust out 134 pets odd squadrons and a Rhymerall... It's not my thing. Since I'm not running fighter heavy, my fighter component to has one purpose, TIE up the enemy squadrons for a critical turn or two. I run minimally 4 TIE fighters, and as of late been adding 1-2 additional fighters or advanced depending on points.

Counter intuitively my fighters hold back to counter attack an enemy bomber force (a fighter screen should be out front). TIEs don't last long, but I've found they will last at least two turns against most enemy squadron combos (the 1-2 advanced really help out here).

If I know I'm facing heavy squadrons I will try to fit in Howlrunner and/or Flight Controllers.

If your up against a heavy fighter force, if you can hit the main engagement turns 3 or 4 instead of 2 or 3 you'll limit your exposure to bombing runs, but you will likely "lose" a turn of heavy shooting as well.

With the advent of wave 3 (when it get's here) running fighters herded by flotillas changes the dynamic. I play rebels and love Gallant Haven (when i use it right), so I'll probably keep running a fully pimped out dedicated carrier. For those that want too there is now the possibility of including 2 or 3 dedicated squadron control flotillas and use the occasional squad command on your ships as needed. I know a fleet like this is possible but haven't found the right balance yet, Even cheap, naked Flotillas cut into your points.

I like 4 Tie Interceptors for general fighter disruption. The high speed gives you control about when to engage and the fact they all have counter means a nasty 4 dice alpha strike and a 2 dice counter when enemies try and win the fight to get away and attack my ships. Add in swarm to probably get a reroll on each attack and they achieve a lot more than token tie fighters. I have used 4 Tie-F in this roll but with Jan Orrs around you may not even get one kill.

If I want more of a fighter force to tie down opponents rather than just disrupt then I take an assassination force. It is designed to take out Jan/Dengar and then tie up remaining squadrons. IG88 is great at ignoring escorting Tie-A or X-Wings and Mauler can get me a guaranteed damage each time it moves. Add in Dengar to enable me to pursue Jan and get a second go with Mauler and she shouldn't last more than 2 turns. Finally a tie advanced to keep my characters alive until they can achieve their goal.

I generally dedicate a carrier - or carriers to squadron management.

I might disagree with the term "squadron management" though as I treat squadrons as an extension of the carrier, and not something to be managed by them. This might sound like semantics, but it's because I see squadrons as an enhancement or compliment to a ship, rather than a burden.

(apologies if this isn't how intended it to be understood)

That said, I have two main use models: Close and Remote

I play rebels, so Yavaris features in many of my fleets. This to me is a Close usage ship. I generally include Raymus to be able to activate 3 squadrons. The squadrons stay close enough to the ship so allow them to be activated, but also to make the ship itself more threatening (don't get too close of I'll set the b-wings on you!)

Gallant Haven is another Close ship - I aim to put it into the thick of the fighting surrounded by it's squadrons that add their firepower to the AF2, or defend it as needs be.

A Remote use might be a standard AF2(B) with boosted comms. I typically use faster squadrons with this set-up - often A-Wings, but also Y-Wings, HWKs and Scurggs too. The movement of the ship and squadrons is different here as you will have to be sure that your squadrons don't get left behind. This set-up for me works well as a harassment force or to block opposing squadron formations.

Rogues I mainly use to plug a hole in a fleet or as an escort/blocker for a solo ship.

My squadron management style can best be summed up as "Fly, my pretties, FLY!"

I mean, I like carriers, but I can never seem to get everything together the way I want it.

I like having carriers, this is a game about the big ships, I like having big ships participate so much in fighter combat. I am a little annoyed about how easy it is to spam rouge ships. I sort of wish that non-unique rouges and villains ships were limited to only one as well. Having a lone Boba Fett or Han Solo doing there own thing is fun, but 6 fires prays surrounding Rhymer seems to break the spirit of the game. Same thing happens when someone shows up with a whole handful of yet-2400's.

I have two problems with this, fist shouldn't things like TIE Fighters and X-wings outnumber Firesprays and light freighters?

Second, each rouges and villains pack only has one Firespray, so if you are going to spam them you literally have to spend more money. This is why I don't play Magic, I ate no desire to spend $$$ on stuff I don't want so I can get those few things I do need to be effective.

I prefer to run my squadrons to the max of my planned carrier capacity. (ships I intend to spam squadron commands on)
I play Imps so usually if imp running squadron heavy ill run any where between 7-10 squads split between what I can activate as groups. Say a ISD1 with Rhymer Vader Dengar and 2 bombers for no wasted activations, then a pocket VSD with boostedC's, flightC's, and howl and 2 interceptors to run a small anti squad wing to tie stuff up.

If I don't plan on running 2 carriers ill have split between squads Rouges with say the Vader Dengar rhymer, maybe a bomber group depending on a VSD or ISD and a few Firesparys(2-3).

I feel also wings are just used to add long range attack dice to the carrier or denying easy attack dice directed at your fleet, you just need to choose what the roll is, carriers need to be specialized I feel to really make there points work. like taking a full bomber wing or full anti squad no half and half really makes upgrades like flightCs pay off.

efficiently using your squads and having a clear plan for them when list building will really make them feel like there working for you in the games you play.

Note: I almost exclusively an Imperial player (except when my girlfriend insists, then I take Rebels, but I do about the same thing.)

I basically run squadron groups, usually herded about all at once by carriers. Victory-1s are still second to none in cost effectiveness as carriers, but I'll often use an ISD-1 for both EHB and Boosted Comms if the main group is five squadrons. Being a carrier doesn't mean the ship can't brawl, especially if it is an Imperial-class ship; it just locks down the command stack to one command (two with the proper officer picks), and often uses the OR upgrade slots too. For the fighters themselves, I'll break them out into dedicated groups, a bomber wing usually led by Rhymer and often tailed by Dengar or a Jumpmaster, and a fighter wing, usually Fel and either Howlrunner or Mithel depending on what else tags along, and either Advanced or Ints depending on how worried I am about screening the bombers close in or killing the other guy. Both fighter groups are the size of the carrier's ability to control, so I don't waste activations or have lagging squadrons. The fighter group's task varies from game to game; I'll choose between attacking the other player's bomber wing and clearing his own fighter screen depending on which is easier to accomplish and which is the greater tactical requirement. And in last ditch situations, five blue dice against ships is still five blue dice.

The other build option if I'm more concerned about just screening my heavier ships is running a pair of Raiders, each with EHB, and a pair of fighters in close proximity, often Advanced, to lock down opponents close in to the Raiders for destruction. No matter what the case is, the space superiority wing alpha strikes, but times the alpha strike so that it doesn't end up beyond command range. He who strikes first wins, but he who keeps striking takes the most with him. As an Imperial your speed means you can always choose when and where the fighter engagement is, as first or second player, if you remember to account for that in your command stacks.

No matter how I run squadrons I don't let non-Rogues leave their carriers, moving and striking is just too good. Otherwise they're meatshields, and I feel like it's just wasted points. If I run few squads, it's usually just a handful of Advanced as a screen; in my experience R&V, unique or generic, is too expensive to use more than sparingly for specific uses (e.g. Dengar with Rhymer, IG-88 with the fighter wing if I expect lots of squads, etc.). The biggest advice I have for learning the squadron game is building a plan for your squadrons when you pick them out, one that synergizes with the roles of the ships leading them and working around them. Well, that, and practice, practice, practice. Controlling the fighter game is easier with Imperials, but more than possible with both sides with understanding, planning, and good list building. My final tip is to remember to concentrate fire. One TIE wing can't kill X-wings in one pass, but three are statistically within half a point of a kill, before accounting for Swarm. Focusing damage does more in the long run for damage mitigation to yourself than spreading your fire.

I've found activation order becomes REALLY critical in the fighter game. Even vs. ships, timing your activation to land in the unshielded arc that just opened up can make all the difference between a "plink a shield" and land a crit.

Yes, the fighter bases are fiddly and annoying, and yes, they slow the game down, but it's like a whole 'nother layer of play that gets stacked on top. Bouncing fighters around with squadron 1 and/or tokens can be a huuuge game changer as well at certain key moments in a game: engaging that bomber, alpha-striking a superior force down to equity, or a-striking an equal force go gain superiority- it all hinges on where, when, and how you've deployed, maneuvered, and set your dials. Not to mention flak!

Sometimes my brain melts when I try to think through the various scenarios... I think that's a good thing

There are numerous variables that I would use when determining my squadron make ups. The pre-game situation is dependent on whether or not the game is a fun match, a tournament match, or a test match. A fun list doesn't necessarily worry about management as much as a tournament list or test list.

The biggest variable, for me, is the squadron itself. Something like an A-Wing or TIE fighter is there mainly to delay or "tie" up enemy squadrons so having a dedicated carrier isn't as critical. However, I do tend to have enough of them to benefit from a ship's squadron value (i.e. 3 with a Victory) and to potentially alpha strike targets. Flexibility has always been an important component with my builds.

Dedicated bomber units like the Rhymer ball need that squadron command, so I tend to make a dedicated carrier for them. Unique ships like Dutch also tend to necessitate the usage of a "dedicated" carrier but that usually just means keeping a ship or two near enough to them to use a squadron command or token. I may also make more dedicated carriers simply because of the cheap points value of the flotillas now.

I generally end up with 4 B wings and 4 escorts, usually the 2 YT-1300's i own and 2 X wings. They all stay under the protection on Gallant Haven and it has flight controllers and expanded hangers. The squads stick with Haven into middle range then move to attack a ship. I mostly count on the squads to bring down shields for the ship controlling it to shoot through.

I generally end up with 4 B wings and 4 escorts, usually the 2 YT-1300's i own and 2 X wings. They all stay under the protection on Gallant Haven and it has flight controllers and expanded hangers. The squads stick with Haven into middle range then move to attack a ship. I mostly count on the squads to bring down shields for the ship controlling it to shoot through.

That is going to be a tough nut to crack for sure ! Aaaah, Gallant Haven... My old days of completely trolling with thee !

_____

The biggest variable, for me, is the squadron itself. Something like an A-Wing or TIE fighter is there mainly to delay or "tie" up enemy squadrons so having a dedicated carrier isn't as critical. However, I do tend to have enough of them to benefit from a ship's squadron value (i.e. 3 with a Victory) and to potentially alpha strike targets. Flexibility has always been an important component with my builds.

This is indeed a good point ! Including your later point about Bombers, it's a good analysis. I was channeling my dark side anger to find ways to make the large-medium Imperials lists I play more effective and the analysis was that obviously the lower the activations, the lower the number of ship attacks are possible each turn. I think that some form of Bomber Wing is needed to compensate that, just to add a larger number of anti-ship attacks when you have a very low activation count.

Anti-fighters might be more interesting with ships that might not activate squadrons as effectively though, because these ships usually can't take much of the squadron firepower so they are a way to both mitigate the squadrons and deal some extra damage.

My approach has been to try to allow my squadron build flexibility, leading to what I call a "fighter bomber" set up. Relies on things like firesprays and x wings, fighters that have decent anti-squadron capabilities, but that can turn round and land hits on ships. With that, I don't necessarily run dedicated carriers, but might run a ship that can serve that role if required, or only run non-rogue squadrons in numbers that I can comfortably command with any ship in my fleet.

But I have a more general question on what has been a really interesting thread. I appreciate it depends on circumstances, but at what point in the game do you send in your fighters? And do you tend to hold them back behind the capital ships before then, or do you have them fly out in front as a screen? I ask because I've been finding that I think I send mine in too early, and that they get torn apart before I've had a chance to make the most of them. So was just looking for some advice!

@Ceejle : This is a pretty good question indeed ! It really depends on many factors and it's going to vary each game.

I think that Turn 3 to open up the fighter hostilities is usually a good turn because the rest of the battle will be set, but if you feel your enemy is really streching, sometimes as early as Turn 2 can work out.

We also have to consider at which point they are sent within each turn ! It's really different to activate them at activation 5 or 6 than it is at activation 1 or 2.

Finally, it also depends about the hull and overall tankiness of the squadrons. If you have very tanky squadrons (Hull 5, or aces with defense tokens, or Jan Ors), you can afford to send them earlier than hull 3 squadrons. So many variables !