hey mylastnerv
yes the two BPs so far have helped Chaos...
i really like "Bolt Of Change" from the Skavenblight BP
and the cards from the Zealot BP seem really good as well...

the BPs are deffinently evening things up... the Orc cards havnt been all that great in the BPs....

Wytefang said:

I agree that we need some counter cards, but I don't think they should be neutral (at least the most potent ones). Destruction imo has the better creature/support destruction, countering should imo belong to the High-Elfs and/or Dwarves.

The orc cards themselves in these last BPs have not been that stellar for the orcs BUT the neutrals have been Tony the Tiger GrrreeAt :]. Honestly I feel there are many possible ways to build orcs outside of the usual Blitz deck and the cards orcs have seen out of these BP's have supported those types of builds, but the first 2 skaven units out of the first BP and now the veteran sellswords have really given them a nice little boost at least imo for blitz decks.

dormouse said:

Interestingly enough, the first BP gave us three copies of a fairly cheap (3-DDD), 3/1 Dwarf Unit with no Toughness.

I playtested the new battlepack yesterday in some deck builds.

All three Chaos cards are AMAZING. Bule finally makes corruption a seriously viable strategy. Bloodsworn are wicked evil for their cost. And the new quest is amazing, even more so when Bloodsworn are on it or the Skaven Hero (which can attack twice a turn!)

Gromril Armour is NASTY. Playing it on a unit with Toughness 1, turning into Toughness 2 is just gross. Its a great card when used on low cost toughness units.

Dwarf Miner is a must have in Dwarf decks! He definitely increases your resilience in long battles!

Animosity is the card we've been waiting for a long time. It finally puts battles into your control. I hope they create a unit or support card with this power.

And now...the topic of Veteran Sellswords.

They are a huge gamble. But they pay off if you can use them correctly. They combo amazingly with Greatswords in the Battlefield. If you can get the Sellswords to move to the Quest Zone, you can use them as an offensive draw mechanism in mill/hand disruption decks.

They worked pretty well in my Chaos semi-rush deck. I can see them working very well in Orc decks.

Orcs. No longer a powerhouse...this battle pack is really evening the field. I'm going to start experimenting with midgame Orc deck builds and see how they stand up against Chaos Corruption, Dwarven Development, and Empire Mill.

I concur that Chaos is finally catching up. I am leaning towards Valkia for Wolves of The North. I am splashing Dark Elf tactics into my Valkia deck so I can weaken my opponent and toughen her up so she can hand off more damage.

I think Chaos finally became more viable but Orcs are still insanely tough. The Wolf Rider card really makes Orc decks even more quick and scary.

I'm not as impressed as Fiendish is with some of the cards (Dwarf Miners? Only somewhat decent in a Dwarf deck - though I play with larger decks so they didn't seem all that great to me since they show up a bit less frequently.)

FiendishDevil said:

And possibly illegal. Does the card text differ from the spoiler text?

If not how does "Attached unit gains Toughness 1." make you think that giving it to a unit with Toughness 1 already would have any effect? If it has Toughness 1 and ou give it a card that gives it Toughness 1 then you have a unit with Toughness 1.

That's easy, as per the rulebook on page 16

"When a unit is gaining Toughness from multiple sources, the numerical effects stack on top of each other. "

Toqtamish said:

Well my apologies for not checking the rules.

That seems like a poor way to word the card effect.

Only if taken completely out of context. Gains should be read as +X, with X equaling whatever the numeric value is of the ability on the card. So each time that element is calculated you add +X to it. Just as if a card read Loses would be calculated as -X. The are no absolute values in this game without a condition check (something in the card text that tells you to consider other elements such as whether a card is already under an effect, buff, or debuff).

FiendishDevil said:

Yes, they really needed the buff... ( 3 turn orc win yesterday )

Allthough I think the best card of the bunch might be Zealot Hunter (Order only).

Lafi said:

The Zealot Hunter is great, imo, you get a 1/2 unit and you can destroy one target enemy unit if your opponent plays Destruction for 3 ressources. I think this one will really help to stall faster decks. The empire card that goes to your hand is also nice, but it only works if you have already developed your Kingdom.

dormouse said:

There is only the context of the card text so its difficult to see how there can be any other context.

dormouse said:

Then why isn't it written as +X?

Probably because its not really necessary, the rules clearly explain how toughness works when gaining it. And the cards are clear as well.

There is also the context of all the other cards and the rulebook.

Because they chose not to? *shrug* I don't know, maybe because if it said +1 Toughness someone would argue that it was adding to the toughness the unit already had, and if they didn't have toughness it couldn't it to one without?

Either way, this card was dealt with in the rulebook, so we don't have to worry about it.

dormouse said:

Bingo! If they put "Toughness +1" on the card, people would say it won't affect units without Toughness already.

yeap bingo alright... now lets move on from this
i really like the look of this BP!

Anyone notice that the cover art of the box and one of the cards has a Yhetee on it. Maybe we will be seeing the Ogre Kingdoms in the game in the future.

Toqtamish said:

That would be nice.

Ogres would b really nice i would love it... being a huge Ogre fan and having a Ogre Kingdoms Fantasy Army
but they would have to b implimental jsut right....
i would prefer to see them completley Neutral... not just Order or Destruction... but can b put in eaither decks.....

After some play testing with this set I think overall think dwarfs got the biggest boost. This might be due to the fact that i'm only playing with 1 copy the core and each battle pack but giving the dwarfs a more solid deck by giving them 6 cards that work well in the existing toughness and capital healing theme. Since the dwarfs seems to have he strongest theme I find that it ends up being the most consistent deck overall.

I also found that in the mid to late game that the new chaos self healing units aren't all that great. This seems to be especially true if you are trying to use them defensively as 3 hp is a in the bucket for a decent sized attack force. as a 2nd turn on the battlefield I see how they have the potential to be very good especially against a slower order army. This might be less true against the dwarfs if they have something like the mountain brigade that won't easily go away. Overall I feel like the chaos upgrades good but I feel like the corruption theme is still too weak with the cards that have been released so far to fully be supported by 1 of sets right now.

I love the orc cards that were printed too. The tactic that allows you to move one of your units from the quest of kingdom zone into the battlefield is great tech against forced march or to add some more power to the orcs end game when they have started to lose too many units in the battlefield. The targeted removal from the 'ard boyz is nice too. I like how it has synergy with all the the orc cards that get bonuses from having damaged units as well.

I haven't had much of a chance to try out the new empire cards yet but I am excited in getting a chance to try them out more too.

That is a feature I really like about the LCG. If you play limited, only one of each product, you get a balanced, but very different game experience than when you go for min/max with x3 of every product, which is definitely more aggressive but no less balanced (IMHO of course).

I think the bloodsworn are a pretty good deal. I agree as end game defenders the ability is probably a wash but consider some of these options.

1. Cloud of flies. I put my one point of damage on myself and on your 1 HP unit. it dies and my damage is gone. Now imagine if I had the combo times 3...

2. Early game attackers when they have a weak defender or two out there. Particularly if you are going to be able seduce one of the defenders to make it a one on one match up.

3. As a unit in a mixed deck with Dark Elves. We Need your Blood makes this unit a lot better.

overall I agree the corruption mechanic might not be quite there yet but I think it is pretty close. The new quest really opens up possibilities.