Leebo, Guri, Hobbie, Latts, Biggs, Echo, all the IG88's, Guri, Backstabber, Emon, Palob, Tarn, did I mention Guri?

That's off the top of my head, there's plenty of good mid-PS pilots, the only ship I can think of which doesn't really have one is the A-Wing.

Jake's is a very good ability but I don't know if you'd count him as mid-PS.

Because all a-wings have "in-built VI" in the form of double EPT

"when in doubt, press PS to the 9"

because currently the game favors PS8+

I do wonder how Vectored Thrusters will impact the Kihraxz Fighter. I think it could do a lot. Or is it still "if you aren't PS +, you suck"? Well, maybe Talonbane Cobra with Vectors might be worth it.

I do wonder how Vectored Thrusters will impact the Kihraxz Fighter. I think it could do a lot. Or is it still "if you aren't PS +, you suck"? Well, maybe Talonbane Cobra with Vectors might be worth it.

Meh, doubt it. Br doesn't do much to better engage his pilot ability, and doesn't help him with action economy or that much with survivability. My real issue with him is that half of his pilot ability is entirely invalidated by secondary weapons, and there are a LOT of secondary weapons these days.

Kihraxz needs some better cheapness, really.

VTs isn't so much about ps as it is just being able to abuse the roll

For example, Palob/mux. Amazing pilots with VTs enabling their turrets and abilities; PS 5 & 3 respectively

Cobra? Not so amazing

VTs are going to have the most marked on ships that can compensate their lack of maneuverability with the flexibility of maneuvering enabled by not having an arc to worry about (or having more than one arc)

So Ys

Hwks

ARCs

And, to a lesser extent due to SLAM, Ks

If just having broll were enough to turn an arced ship into soontir, we would all be going gaga for QuickDraw (do like her, personally)

I do wonder how Vectored Thrusters will impact the Kihraxz Fighter. I think it could do a lot. Or is it still "if you aren't PS +, you suck"? Well, maybe Talonbane Cobra with Vectors might be worth it.

Meh, doubt it. Br doesn't do much to better engage his pilot ability, and doesn't help him with action economy or that much with survivability. My real issue with him is that half of his pilot ability is entirely invalidated by secondary weapons, and there are a LOT of secondary weapons these days.

Kihraxz needs some better cheapness, really.

The one thing I keep hearing about X-wings and Kihraxz's are the lack of repositioning. So, you get one with it....and people think it won't do well?

So, Talonbane's ability is only 50% defense. Sure, there are a lot of secondary weapons, but not everyone has them. Even then, he still gets it on offense. So, if you can get him into R1, then he can blast away.

Action economy? Well, go with either PTL or Predator.

Forget his special ability, though. You can have a mid-priced ship at PS 9 that can reposition. That alone should be worth something.

I do wonder how Vectored Thrusters will impact the Kihraxz Fighter. I think it could do a lot. Or is it still "if you aren't PS +, you suck"? Well, maybe Talonbane Cobra with Vectors might be worth it.

Meh, doubt it. Br doesn't do much to better engage his pilot ability, and doesn't help him with action economy or that much with survivability. My real issue with him is that half of his pilot ability is entirely invalidated by secondary weapons, and there are a LOT of secondary weapons these days.

Kihraxz needs some better cheapness, really.

The one thing I keep hearing about X-wings and Kihraxz's are the lack of repositioning. So, you get one with it....and people think it won't do well?

ner, lack of respositioning is just one thing

the real problem is this:

X-wings (and fake X-wings) are jousters that aren't efficient enough to joust and have nothing that enables them to perform any other function

which actually isn't the case for Biggs (his ability) and Wes (also his ability, which requires shooting but doesn't care about his inefficient damage output for the points spent on him), but you get the idea

adding 2 points of b-roll only serves to make them drastically less efficient and doesn't give them enough to make them stand out relative to other ships, mainly because the two most efficient jousters in the game already come standard with b-roll on their bars (Fighters and X7 defenders)

The one thing I keep hearing about X-wings and Kihraxz's are the lack of repositioning. So, you get one with it....and people think it won't do well?

ner, lack of respositioning is just one thing

the real problem is this:

X-wings (and fake X-wings) are jousters that aren't efficient enough to joust and have nothing that enables them to perform any other function

I thought Integrated Astromech fixed that? I recall Majorjuggler saying so on Nova Squadron.

Also, I think jousting is going to be coming back with the latest bunch of ships. They all want to have you in their firing arc. They realize that they tilted the game too far to PTL arc dodgers and are trying to bring it back. I think with the repositioning, Integrated Astromech, and with (perhaps) more jousting actually happening...we should see X-wings and Kihraxz Fighters doing well.

The one thing I keep hearing about X-wings and Kihraxz's are the lack of repositioning. So, you get one with it....and people think it won't do well?

ner, lack of respositioning is just one thing

the real problem is this:

X-wings (and fake X-wings) are jousters that aren't efficient enough to joust and have nothing that enables them to perform any other function

I thought Integrated Astromech fixed that? I recall Majorjuggler saying so on Nova Squadron.

Also, I think jousting is going to be coming back with the latest bunch of ships. They all want to have you in their firing arc. They realize that they tilted the game too far to PTL arc dodgers and are trying to bring it back. I think with the repositioning, Integrated Astromech, and with (perhaps) more jousting actually happening...we should see X-wings and Kihraxz Fighters doing well.

ner, juggler said the integrated rookie is just under the blue squadron b-wing ito jousting effficiency

poor blue squadron b-wing has ceased to be relevant for some time now, and it was always less efficient than the tie fighter

Few things are as efficient as the Tie Fighter, though. To say that a ship is only as good as the Tie Fighter is eliminating a lot of ships!

There are issues with the B-wing that go beyond jousting efficiency, though. To say that it's just under the B-wing isn't a bad thing in my mind.

I do wonder how Vectored Thrusters will impact the Kihraxz Fighter. I think it could do a lot. Or is it still "if you aren't PS +, you suck"? Well, maybe Talonbane Cobra with Vectors might be worth it.

I'm REALLY looking forward to Black Sun Ace + Vector Thrusters + Mindlink. 26 points each though - look how you JUST can't manage four per list... *applauds FFG*

...of course, Palob is usually the spare wheel in that list anyway...

Few things are as efficient as the Tie Fighter, though. To say that a ship is only as good as the Tie Fighter is eliminating a lot of ships!

There are issues with the B-wing that go beyond jousting efficiency, though. To say that it's just under the B-wing isn't a bad thing in my mind.

Your jousting efficient re the Tie fighters only matters if you do nothing but joust

Which is the case for our special K and most X friends

The one thing I keep hearing about X-wings and Kihraxz's are the lack of repositioning. So, you get one with it....and people think it won't do well?

ner, lack of respositioning is just one thing

the real problem is this:

X-wings (and fake X-wings) are jousters that aren't efficient enough to joust and have nothing that enables them to perform any other function

I thought Integrated Astromech fixed that? I recall Majorjuggler saying so on Nova Squadron.

Also, I think jousting is going to be coming back with the latest bunch of ships. They all want to have you in their firing arc. They realize that they tilted the game too far to PTL arc dodgers and are trying to bring it back. I think with the repositioning, Integrated Astromech, and with (perhaps) more jousting actually happening...we should see X-wings and Kihraxz Fighters doing well.

We're getting far afield but there are two reasons an X-wing doesn't like Vectored Thrusters. First, it's two points. That's not insignificant on an already overcosted ship. The second is that it fills the IA slot, so you're back to spending points on a pretty fragile ship, especially considering the cards that have come out in recent waves.

We're getting far afield but there are two reasons an X-wing doesn't like Vectored Thrusters. First, it's two points. That's not insignificant on an already overcosted ship. The second is that it fills the IA slot, so you're back to spending points on a pretty fragile ship, especially considering the cards that have come out in recent waves.

....but we are really talking about the Kihraxz. It doesn't need IA and it is cheaper than the X-wing.

At 22 points with VTs it's noticeably crappier than the BSP outside the dial

Not much to discuss there, sadly

VTs are not the card you're looking for to make a jouster better

Much more better...why you do this to my language...why?

Much more better...why you do this to my language...why?

OP is obviously captain Jack sparrow

He's a PS6 dude with no EPT, and flying a ship with no reposition ability.

his ability yeilds 3\8 extra evades on a roll.

He's a living example, a statement that FFG has no intention of making mid-PS good.

He's a living example, a statement that FFG has no intention of making mid-PS good.

Ryad anyone? [whistles]

I get the impression that they've learned their lesson on the mid-PS problem. Ryad in particular makes me think that, as to a somewhat lesser extent does Fenn - his ability is solid, but it's no Soontir or Vader, and it's quite limited in scope.

Quickdraw is an argument against - but conversely, his ability is very, very rarely going to fire more than once I don't think.

I actually was thinking FFG had learned their lesson as well, but the ARC makes me a bit doubtful again with 2 mid PS named pilots coming out EPT-less.

On the plus side v ARC, oneoof the higher PS pilots got shafted with the worst ability

Thanes is pretty intriguing

Braylen's...eh but he's the only ARC that won't need his actions for his ability so he can r3_a2 away

Talonbane can technically use vectored thruster to (hopefully) either get in range 1 or move back to range 3. It's 2 points cheaper than engine upgrade, so you could imagine a combo like the cloaking device and vectored thruster.

I find vectored thrusters to be more at home on Palob. Hard turn 2 and barrel roll back into place where the pursuing ace might bump into it. That could be a life saver and a way to sneak behind him on the following turn to use the TLT again.

I like Graz alright. There's only one list I flew him in. Serissu, Laetin, Graz, and a Black Sun Soldier all stay tight in a box formation and fly straight at the enemy.

Graz is one of those pilots that can do awesome in one game and fall apart in another. Ships like that aren't good for tournaments because they lack consistency. However, they can be a blast to play in a casual setting.

I've seen a lot of people post recently that every ship should be tournament viable because that would be good for both casual play and tournament play. I understand that argument. For example if Lt. Lorrir didn't take stress to do his curvy barrel roll, he'd probably see more play. You could even make the bank barrel roll mandatory to make it more of a challenge. But some pilots, like Graz, just have abilities that are never going to be good in a tournament. However, his ability is really interesting and just "fun." Would we really want to lose this ability altogether?

In my opinion, an Elite upgrade slot would really make him shine. He came out on the tail-end of the turret era. It's clear he was designed to be able to hunt turrets and not get shot down as badly. If he could have had Outmaneuver, he would have been amazing, in my opinion. But TLT killed turrets in the same wave and Graz was never able to show the galaxy his mettle.

Vectored thrusters is going to absolutely shine on HWKs

Regardless of the actual topic,

"Much more better" , really?

There are times when some of those EPT-less guys shine, though. Maybe it's a special mission or fun game, but sometimes it's almost worth building a special mission where those guys are really good....just for the sheer joy of taking someone so so and making them awesome.

"There are times those guys shine if you go out of your way to make a badly designed card somehow shine better than actual well designed cards." I'm not trying to pick on you, because in the end this is on the FFG design team. Aside from the HWK pilots, FFG generally crapped the bed with current scum small ship pilots, well, scum small ships in general I guess.

Mindlink is almost good enough to make Scyks and Kirahxz's competitive (lol who am I kidding), and I see Laetin and Graz with no EPT and I just put my head in my hands.

Also, I think jousting is going to be coming back with the latest bunch of ships. They all want to have you in their firing arc. They realize that they tilted the game too far to PTL arc dodgers and are trying to bring it back. I think with the repositioning, Integrated Astromech, and with (perhaps) more jousting actually happening...we should see X-wings and Kihraxz Fighters doing well.

... I respectfully disagree. Jousting won't come back with wave 9 ships. I would bet 10,000 galactic credits on this.

Graz the Hunter, so cool to see a thread about him, definitely my favorite Kihraxz cause I can get him to live long enough to actually contribute something.

Sadly, all the Kihraxz pilots are overcosted, at the very minimum, by 2 points.

** ship comparison **

Graz the Hunter (25 points)

Tarn Mison + R7 astromech (25 points)

Omega Leader + Juke + Comm Relay (26 points)

Graz the Hunter pathetically becomes Graz the Sad after that comparison

Small base ships have been horrendously priced 4 waves in a row now. Make that 5 because we know the Tie/SF Zeta Specialist is 23 points. This bodes poorly for Fang fighter generics. FFG X-wing game design is completely removing small base generics from the game. (exception : Tie Swarm, & crackshot is what keeps it around)