So I've been looking through the force and destiny lightsaber specializations trying to find some that the kind of character I want to play and I have some thoughts and questions.

1) One thing I've noticed is that niman has both force rating and dedication. It also has force-pull, very similar to hawk-bat swoop mechanically (different flavor, though). I have a feeling that makes him the most versatile form, as it allows both force powers and good lightsaber skill. Also seems decent defensively with all parry's and reflect's.

2) Makashi and Shi-Choo don't have reflects. They are basically melee only forms. Because this game is based on an era where most of the combatants would be ranged and few force-users, I have a feeling this makes them kinda bad choices. I mean when the stormtroopers start firing at you, they won't do you much good.

3) Sum djem talent apparantly allows for disarm on triumph or two advantages. However, reading rules on how to spend advantages and triumph in combat it says, you can use 3 advantages or 1 triumph to force enemy to drop his weapon. Does this mean sum djem is basically only an extra advantage? Or is there some other catch I'm not getting?

4) Talents that allow to spend force points on success or advantage (such as intuitive shot for hunter), is that before rolling the dice/resolving roll, or after. Meaning if I don't have enough success I can add it, otherwise I use it as advantage?

That's it for now. I appreciate anyone contributing their thoughts and answers.

Okay, let's take a look-see:

1) Niman: Hot or Not?

You're right on the face of it - the Niman Disciple is a very potent spec. That Force Rating bump is especially nice, but you'll also notice that it has neither Improved Parry nor Improved Reflect. In fact, it's the only Lightsaber spec that has neither. Also, while Draw Closer is nice and comparable to Hawk Bat Swoop in some ways, you'll notice that if you hit you can only spend the extra Force Points on adding Successes. Which is great, if your attack would otherwise miss. But if you were going to hit anyways? Extra successes aren't the most efficient thing to add. They're better than nothing, of course, but extra Advantages (like Hawk Bat Swoop lets you add) are where it's really at, because you can crit or activate qualities with them.

2) What's the Deal with Makashi and Shii-Cho?!

Once again, you're right to a point - these two styles, as they are given, are pretty much "melee only." However, Makashi has the highest number of Parry ranks in a single spec (5), and a devastating final talent: Makashi Finish is the easiest way to kill off a Nemesis, because you get to add your Force Points as effective ranks of Vicious to every attack you make once you get that talent. It does require you to get up close, but what is Force Leap for? Shii-Cho is nice; I'll be honest, not my favorite so I don't have as many good things to say about it, but I'm sure the gems are in there. Two fairly obvious ones are Natural Blademaster (reroll that crucial Lightsaber check!) and Sarlacc Sweep; basically auto-fire for Lightsabers, and a downright vile way to cleave through scores of Minions.

3) Drop it Like Sum Djem!

I had this same issue, so let me explain: when you spend 3 Advantage to force an enemy to drop their weapon, it drops engaged to them. On their turn, they can spend a maneuver to pick it up. Sure, that may be one more maneuver than they want to spend, but in a pinch that's all they need to do. Sum Djem not only drops the Advatage cost to 2, not only lets the weapon be thrown to within short range (requiring a maneuver to disengage and another to retrieve the weapon), but it also lets you choose where in short range it goes. Are you on a cliff? Over the cliff face it flies! In a factory with whirring machines? My, that's a lovely conveyor belt!

4) May the Force Pips be with You!

Talents or Force Powers that let you roll your Force Dice and spend pips for Success/Advantage are some of the most potent in the game. Basically you have it down - you roll your skill check and your Force Dice. After determining how many Success/Failures and Advantage/Threat you ended up with, you can spend Force Points to add Successes or Advantages as you wish. So if you end up with 1 Failure and 2 Advantage, you could spend 2 pips to add 2 Successes (you did it! Yay!) and then additional pips for more Successes or Advantages as you feel you need. Often, you're right - a single success is all you need, and the rest you can dump into Advantage for cool bonuses, but sometimes you really need to pile on the Successes, and you can do that too.

Hope that helps!

So FFG have done an excellent job in capturing the spirit of the various lightsaber combat forms already established (in Legends at least), and I would highly recommend you read the fluff about them to get a sense of what they're good/bad for. You are quite right that Niman is the "all rounder" and versatile, but that means it's not the best at anything. Have a read about the different forms, and which Jedi used them, and you may get a better sense of what style would suit your character. Will you be defensive like Obi-Wan, highly agile like Yoda or an expert duellist like Dooku?

http://starwars.wikia.com/wiki/Lightsaber_forms

1) Niman Disciple is meant to be focused on Force usage. Take note that while it has Force Rating, it doesn't have either Improved Parry or Improved Reflect, which can be a useful source of damage output in a fight. I've got a Shii-Cho Knight build that if Improved Parry gets triggered (something that's very easy at this point), the target takes a lot of damage.

2) This is by design, and with Makashi is fully appropriate as Form II is noted as being a pure dueling Form that is pants against ranged attacks. With Shii-Cho, the initial version was also melee-centric, which was what FFG opted to go with. Personally, I believe (and some of Legends agrees) that Shii-Cho as practiced by the Jedi Order did evolve to incorporate blast-deflect training (i.e. Reflect talent). I posted a variant of the Shii-Cho Knight over on my blog, swapping a few talents around and replacing two Parry talents with two Reflect talents, giving this take on the Shii-Cho Knight some capability to deal with ranged attacks at a trade-off of not being quite so much of a stone wall in dealing with melee attacks.

3) With regular disarms (3 Advantage), most GMs go with the disarmed weapon/item being within fairly easy reach, and so only requires a maneuver to scoop the weapon/item back up. With Sum Djem, the PC can knock the weapon/item to any location within short range, meaning the target has to spend two maneuvers to pick the weapon/item back up (one to get to it, another to actually grab it) at the very least, possibly even three (which one generally can't do) if the GM decides the target has to first spend a separate maneuver to disengage, another maneuver to 'engage' with the desired item, and the third to pick it up. If requiring three maneuvers (disengage from PC, engage with object, manipulate/pick-up object), then against a Nemesis that relies upon their weapon to be a threat in combat, you've just neutered them in addition to dealing damage. In the right situations, Sum Djem can be a real game changer of a talent.

4) Generally it's during the roll, so while cancelling out success/failures and advantage/threat, you can opt to use those Force points as necessary before announcing the finale result.

4) Being able to add Force Dice to a skill check is incredibly powerful. You can guarantee a success per dice if the occasional conflict is ok with you (which it should be). Then if you actually succeeded on the roll its Advantages. This gives you an amazing ability to pass what seem impossible checks.

And Makashi has one of the most powerfull talents for only 5 XP: "Resist Disarm" = suffer 2 strain to avoid being disarmed or having the character's weapon be damaged or destroyed.

With only two strain you cancel off the effect of an duble Triumph (the only way to destroy a lightsaber with in a fight)!! or of Despairs which would at least damage the weapons, just having it helps so the GM won't use the effects as long as the player hasn't burned up through his strain. And a Makashi gains Intense "Presence" (Spend 1 DP tor recover strain equal to Presence rating) and "Makashi Flourish" (inflict strain and recover equal strain) so it will take a while to bunr through the strain houshold of an good makashi...

Resist Disarm is great, I will often trigger "the NPC disarms you" result just because the PC has the talent and I know I can get them to burn extra strain with it! But yes your right Makashi is brilliant in close combat, not so much against a long ranged opponent though.

Resist Disarm is great, I will often trigger "the NPC disarms you" result just because the PC has the talent and I know I can get them to burn extra strain with it! But yes your right Makashi is brilliant in close combat, not so much against a long ranged opponent though.

One concern that I saw come up with Makashi during the Beta was that its inherent defensive talent Feint is reliant upon the attacker missing their combat check. I had a PC that was a Nautolan Mystic/Makashi Duelist that got creamed in a fight simply because the poor guy kept hitting all the time with his lightsaber, and so could never trigger Feint.

So similar to how Shien Expert was in the Beta vs. ranged attacks, Makashi Duelist is kind of reliant upon buying the Sense power and using the defensive upgrades if you want to protect yourself from getting hit.

If you don't have Reflect, consider the Misdirect Force Power on p. 296 as well. The affected person "cannot see or sense you." Which means they cannot shoot you.

To make it effective, you'd need some Range, Duration and Magnitude upgrades, but worth considering, I think.

So I've been looking through the force and destiny lightsaber specializations trying to find some that the kind of character I want to play and I have some thoughts and questions.

1) One thing I've noticed is that niman has both force rating and dedication. It also has force-pull, very similar to hawk-bat swoop mechanically (different flavor, though). I have a feeling that makes him the most versatile form, as it allows both force powers and good lightsaber skill. Also seems decent defensively with all parry's and reflect's.

2) Makashi and Shi-Choo don't have reflects. They are basically melee only forms. Because this game is based on an era where most of the combatants would be ranged and few force-users, I have a feeling this makes them kinda bad choices. I mean when the stormtroopers start firing at you, they won't do you much good.

3) Sum djem talent apparantly allows for disarm on triumph or two advantages. However, reading rules on how to spend advantages and triumph in combat it says, you can use 3 advantages or 1 triumph to force enemy to drop his weapon. Does this mean sum djem is basically only an extra advantage? Or is there some other catch I'm not getting?

4) Talents that allow to spend force points on success or advantage (such as intuitive shot for hunter), is that before rolling the dice/resolving roll, or after. Meaning if I don't have enough success I can add it, otherwise I use it as advantage?

That's it for now. I appreciate anyone contributing their thoughts and answers.

Maybe you should tell us what kind of character you are tying to play? That would help inform us on which saber tree is the most thematically appropriate? I mean yeah, you can debate the mechanics all day, but in the end, what does your character actually plan on doing with these skills? Is he going to be whirling dervish of a fighter? A Force powerhouse that uses the skills to help him fight using Force powers directly? Is he going to be a stalwart bastion of defiance, standing firm against an onslaught of enemies?