I wanted to ask the same thing the OP did the last months, but didn't want to see another thread about the annoying gunboat.

Gunboat fanboys have succeeded to make me hate the boat before I even know something about it.

"Fanboys" is too mild. I will call them "Gunboat Ultras"

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Cool, do we get white armour and energy swords?

I'm not someone who played the games and doesn't really get the gunboat craze. I'm also not sure on the idea that it would actually sell like hotcakes. I think there are fans of the video game, but they aren't that high a percentage of the players. I think there are people who buy one of everything. I think there are people who would buy it because it's something that is neat to them. I just don't think it is a "must have" item, unless it's broken when it comes out.

The problem that I see from a game perspective is that it fits too narrow a field. We have the Lambda and the Tie Defender. Is it really that different to have a small based ship that moves somewhere between a Lambda and an X-wing, but can take cannon and missiles? It's basically a slow rolling Tie Defender. Is it really filling a needed niche?

I will also admit that I don't think we really needed the TAP V1 or the Tie Punisher, either. I think the Punisher was so you can push out some fixes for bombs and ordnance. The V1 was based on the tv show.

As for people getting excited about Rebels stuff....it's not like there were people demanding that FFG make it. I mean, they were happy when it came out, but there weren't threads about "FFG NEEDS to make the Ghost!".

I get there are fans. That's fine. I'm not against it. I just don't really see the need for it. I think I'd be happy for those people that like it, but I have to admit that I just don't think they will make it like the fans believe it should be. Or....it gets made too powerful and it just tips the balance of the game too much like U-boats. Either way we will still see threads complaining about it.

I'm not someone who played the games and doesn't really get the gunboat craze. I'm also not sure on the idea that it would actually sell like hotcakes. I think there are fans of the video game, but they aren't that high a percentage of the players. I think there are people who buy one of everything. I think there are people who would buy it because it's something that is neat to them. I just don't think it is a "must have" item, unless it's broken when it comes out.

The problem that I see from a game perspective is that it fits too narrow a field. We have the Lambda and the Tie Defender. Is it really that different to have a small based ship that moves somewhere between a Lambda and an X-wing, but can take cannon and missiles? It's basically a slow rolling Tie Defender. Is it really filling a needed niche?

I will also admit that I don't think we really needed the TAP V1 or the Tie Punisher, either. I think the Punisher was so you can push out some fixes for bombs and ordnance. The V1 was based on the tv show.

As for people getting excited about Rebels stuff....it's not like there were people demanding that FFG make it. I mean, they were happy when it came out, but there weren't threads about "FFG NEEDS to make the Ghost!".

I get there are fans. That's fine. I'm not against it. I just don't really see the need for it. I think I'd be happy for those people that like it, but I have to admit that I just don't think they will make it like the fans believe it should be. Or....it gets made too powerful and it just tips the balance of the game too much like U-boats. Either way we will still see threads complaining about it.

I just want the official model, and then whether it's good or not I'll fly it and make it work.

I'm not someone who played the games and doesn't really get the gunboat craze. I'm also not sure on the idea that it would actually sell like hotcakes. I think there are fans of the video game, but they aren't that high a percentage of the players. I think there are people who buy one of everything. I think there are people who would buy it because it's something that is neat to them. I just don't think it is a "must have" item, unless it's broken when it comes out.

The problem that I see from a game perspective is that it fits too narrow a field. We have the Lambda and the Tie Defender. Is it really that different to have a small based ship that moves somewhere between a Lambda and an X-wing, but can take cannon and missiles? It's basically a slow rolling Tie Defender. Is it really filling a needed niche?

I will also admit that I don't think we really needed the TAP V1 or the Tie Punisher, either. I think the Punisher was so you can push out some fixes for bombs and ordnance. The V1 was based on the tv show.

As for people getting excited about Rebels stuff....it's not like there were people demanding that FFG make it. I mean, they were happy when it came out, but there weren't threads about "FFG NEEDS to make the Ghost!".

I get there are fans. That's fine. I'm not against it. I just don't really see the need for it. I think I'd be happy for those people that like it, but I have to admit that I just don't think they will make it like the fans believe it should be. Or....it gets made too powerful and it just tips the balance of the game too much like U-boats. Either way we will still see threads complaining about it.

Well, I think the people who go way overboard with it are just turning it into a meme more than anything else. They're just exaggerating their desire for it as an attempt at humor which resonates with some folks and irritates others.

As far as a "need", you're right that it's not really "needed", but there is a need to continue producing ships, and at the rate they're making these waves, they're bound to get to it eventually (as long as there's no official mandate to not use EU material). Will it be exactly what we were looking for? Probably not, but as long as it's not incredibly overpowered, completely underpowered, or 100% identical (stat-wise) to other ships, I'm sure we'll be able to make it work!

I wanted to ask the same thing the OP did the last months, but didn't want to see another thread about the annoying gunboat...

BTW, Gunboat Ultras is a GREAT idea for the next t-shirt design! I will come up with something to that effect in time for Worlds!

I'm posting here because the only thing better than one 100+ page thread about the gunboat is two 100+ page threads about the gunboat.

I honestly love GUNBOAT and have been wishing for an official GUNBOAT toy, model or even mention in the canon for a long long time, much longer than X-wing Minis has been around. I've made several attempts at LEGO GUNBOAT but have disatisfied and I'm too busy to try again anytime soon, but I remain hopeful so I can share my love for GUNBOAT with everyone.

I'm not someone who played the games and doesn't really get the gunboat craze. I'm also not sure on the idea that it would actually sell like hotcakes. I think there are fans of the video game, but they aren't that high a percentage of the players. I think there are people who buy one of everything. I think there are people who would buy it because it's something that is neat to them. I just don't think it is a "must have" item, unless it's broken when it comes out.

The problem that I see from a game perspective is that it fits too narrow a field. We have the Lambda and the Tie Defender. Is it really that different to have a small based ship that moves somewhere between a Lambda and an X-wing, but can take cannon and missiles? It's basically a slow rolling Tie Defender. Is it really filling a needed niche?

It wouldn't play anything like a Lambda. It's a single-seat fighter, while the Lambda is all about hauling crew (read: Palpatine) around. Gameplay-wise it would be like a slightly more mobile Y-wing with no astromech.

Thinking about this, I have an answer.

You have to accept certain truths. Firstly - That TIE Fighter, and the X-wing series as a whole are the greatest Star Wars gamesever made, now this is I assure you hardly a stretch - even now TIE Fighter still gets put on the #1 best space combat sim ever tables, some 22 years on.

A lot of us, myself included spent way too much of our teenage years playing the series. In X-wing Vs TIE Fighter, the imperial campaigns I swear were largely TIE Advanced (Avenger type) escorting Gunboats to either disable or destroy stuff, that's gonna get lodged in there. Recently I bought Doom, and also a Doom T-shirt with a really cool like alien demonic symbol on it. It's the same thing, a lot of nostalgia. Running around mars base killing demons using whatever I can find.. hell, that's my teenage years right there. That and flying an Avenger/Gunboat for the Empire.

Some people love or hate the Gunboat, because of it's design. Fair. some people are even sick of the Gunboat posts. I get it, some of my fellows are a tad overzealous.

If someone told me that they were releasing a new C&C series, with updated graphics/engine/style but exactly the same plot/FMV of the originals. I'd be all over that too.

"But Darius - surely nostalgia can't be all that important?" I am sure some of you will cry.

Guys. We are talking about Star Wars. I want you to all think on that for a moment. Movies that came out before I was born, and were huge around my childhood. Movies that ARE dated. Why was there such a prequels backlash? Because the prequels were hyped and did not match the feel of the original films. Why did some of you give TFA such a hard time? Because it wasn't the original films (though it tried so so hard). Star Wars exists in many of our minds as an ideal, an image of the perfect hollywood movie, along with the original 3 Indy films. Because George Lucas wrote a love letter to pulp and pulp is awesome. But nostalgia is a huge part of that. Come on? Hands up - who else here watched SW ever xmas holiday as a kid and hid behind the sofa/under the sheets when Darth Vader killed Obi-Wan(yeah i know, don't nitpick)? I did.

How many of you have said something of the lines of "MAN I WISH THEY'D RELEASE A NEW XWING!" Well, That's every other page on the other Gunboat Thread.

In the 90's The lucasarts games, along with the WEG stuff and a few books WERE Star Wars, no new movie - we were starving for it. But we got new ships, like the XG-1, my Beloved Stormtrooper Transport (DX-9) the BFF-1 Bulk freighter, we got Thrawn, we got Dark Troopers and Kyle Katarn, the R-41s, Nomi Sunrider and the original KOTOR stories...

Does this sufficiently answer the OP's question?

It's a good start, Darius.

Kids of the 80's grew up on Star Wars, the films, the toys, the old cockpit-style Arcade games... but then had very little else until the X-Wing series came along. And those games - X-Wing, TIE Fighter, Alliance - threw you into the Star Wars universe in the way you always wanted. Starfighter combat, seeing capital ships squaring off, racing to complete objectives before the giant Imperial capital ships arrived...

...yes, there's a lot of nostalgia for those days. And our beloved miniatures game - branded as it is, X-Wing, just like the PC games - has grown off the back of that nostalgia.

I know a fair few of my friends had their interest caught by the X-Wing brand, and it instantly reminded them of those halcyon days of 90's PC gaming. That brand was the reason they bought into the miniatures game in the first place.

FFG are clearly fans of the old 90's PC games, just like we are. Look at the list of game they've deceloped

Why obsessed?

Because it's one of the few missing pieces from the classic X-wing games that's instantly recognizable (along with the TIE Avenger). Also, it's an Imperial fighter that's /not/ a TIE variant, but still is recognizably Imperial in design.

For me it's a few reasons.

First, aesthetics. The Empire are all about primary shapes and blades for their visual style. Like the Lambda, the Assault Gunboat is an array of wings. Top-down it still has a delta to suggest forward movement and speed, and it looks good at a few angles. It doesn't have things hanging off the sides awkwardly to make it look strange (like the TIE Oppressor), and the proportions and placement of the features don't make it look like an afterthought trying too hard (like the TIE punisher) or something that glued features together to make it "look cool" (again, like the TIE Oppressor's oddly placed third wing).

Second is visibility. The TIE Avenger and Assault Gunboat are both loved by TIE Fighter sim veterans, but these rare ships hardly make an appearance in the Legends scheme of things. So while FFG is offering up fugly duds from lackluster sources like TIE trying-too-hard punisher/interdictor, the R2-dome Decimator, and the derpy Scyk fighter, the popular fighters that are almost as obscure aren't being chosen. It's maddening that the gunboat is apparently being avoided on purpose, though thankfully the offerings of the Inquisitor Fighter and First Order craft are good substitutes. In the end it might be even too late for the Assault Gunboat if FFG is restricted to only Rebels/Episode-X ships, until those fighters are depicted somewhere in the new canon. Still, one can hope.

Third is gameplay. I may be removed from the game for several waves, but I still don't see the Empire having a tanky small-ship cannon carrier of their own. Both new TIE Defender options basically mess with Imperial small ships that can carry a Heavy Laser Cannon, and I think this is what the Gunboat could do.

I think you're more than a little off base with the scyck and decimator. Most of the SWG ships were very well designed to fit the theme of the star wars universe. The naming of the scum and villainy ships leaves something to be desired, but I mean we've already got a planet named Kashyyyk so. . . Yeah.

I cannot abide the TIE Oppressor or TIE Aggressor. Nor can I abide the TIE Interdictor honestly, all of them are examples of terrible cut-and-paste designs on ships that look more akin to Uglies than Sienar products. Every one of them pop into my head when someone accuses the TIE Defender of being designed by a three year old. And I still can't un-see the R2 dome on the "Evil Millenium Falcon" of the Decimator, which really only has the TIE cockpit as the only other interesting quality about the design.

Scum is actually all right. And the Rebels, as I recall, only got all of their screen ships. It's just the Empire that for some reason had to invent counterparts to the Y-Wing and B-Wing... though there were already enough well-loved examples to fill these roles (TIE Bomber, TIE Defender). Strangely, I do like the YE-4 gunship though... looks like a stablemate next to the Lambda and the old Escort Shuttles. Why couldn't we have gotten that instead of the Decimator?

Ok I agree with the oppressor--I forgot that thing existed--but the decimator and aggressor look like imperial ships and fit right in with their design. The aggressor even has the panels cut down so as to not interfere with the turret. If you get hung up on the astromech dome of the decimator then that's on you, because it looks more like an upturned TIE to me, and the ship as a whole looks imposing and awesome.

I have no idea where the interdictor (punisher) came from but yuck, lol.

The gunboat would be a good addition in my opinion, but it's hard to argue that its design is any more inspired than any other design. It's just a small lambda with two extra (pointless?) wings. I personally like it, but let's be real.

Try to remember the Aggressor and Oppressor were never meant to be production line ships.

As for the Starwing... EXPLOSIONS?~ Mr. Torgue

Hmm, this thread makes me appear to be the worlds most clever troll. I am so clever I don't know what I am trolling when I troll.

Hmm, this thread makes me appear to be the worlds most clever troll. I am so clever I don't know what I am trolling when I troll.

Somebody get this man an xibit meme stat!

We also need to take into account the context of when this ship was created (in real life).

It was the late 80's early 90's when StarWars was totally, positively dead, and Lucasfilm was trying to insuflate some life in it by releasing content in different media that would deepen the lore of the franchise.

They wanted, among other things, to make the Empire deeper and less unidimensional. So they developed the rationale behind the TIEs being limited to star destroyers and other capital ships, the imperial doctrine... and kept thinking further about it to make it a believable universe.

They realized the Empire needed boarding craft other than the shuttle, that were tougher and carried more troops, and they developed the DX-9 transport to fulfill that task.

They realized TIEs were too limited to answer to trouble if they needed to be carried by a huge warship every time (being Vader's TIE experimental and prototype), so they developed the idea behind the gunboat, being a fast response ship developed by other company.

And so on, so on.

It wasn't until relatively recently that this initiative to make the SW universe deeper, more involved, more believable, was reverted.

As in other aspects of our lives, now everything follows the trend of simplicity, unidimensionality, recognizability, etc.

Everything today has to be reduced to one single button, one single screen, almost cartoon-like characterization of every individual character.

The First Order has TIEs and that's it (and of the same shape, even). The Rebels have X-Wings and that's it.

There is nothing beyond what you see. It doesn't have to be believable or make any sense. It needs to appeal to the masses and sell.

Brah, you missed an "f" in "insufflate"; but I'm putting that down to typing fast giving the way thoughts seemed to be tumbling out there. You get much likes for vocalizing that entire paragraph. If I could I'd give you a second like for mentioning the dead days in the late 80's and early 90's, and a third for pointing out the easy marketability of old-fashioned TIE's and X-Wings.

I'm sorry that I can only like a post once.

Don't get me wrong, I love the /fo and T-70. The homage to McQuarrie's original concept art warms my heart, (and the /fo is just cute); but the decision to revert to instantly recognizable designs was pure marketing.

EDIT: and to throw my unwanted two cents in on the Decimator discussion; it looks too MMO to me... I mean I like it all right for what it is, but a patrol ship with what looks for all the world like a ballroom with a skylight in the middle of the ship.. like the galley in the Serenity... like a crapton of glass in.. I dunno. Looks more like it was designed to be viewed by a player from the inside then by an audience from the outside.

Well I suppose there is valid reason for a patrol ship like Decimator to have plenty of viewports. Sensor jamming is a thing, so there's some use in being able to look out the window too.

Honestly, I preferred flying my Avenger or Defender to the AGB.

I lerrrrrrved my Avenger.

Brah, you missed an "f" in "insufflate"; but I'm putting that down to typing fast giving the way thoughts seemed to be tumbling out there. You get much likes for vocalizing that entire paragraph. If I could I'd give you a second like for mentioning the dead days in the late 80's and early 90's, and a third for pointing out the easy marketability of old-fashioned TIE's and X-Wings.

I'm sorry that I can only like a post once.

Don't get me wrong, I love the /fo and T-70. The homage to McQuarrie's original concept art warms my heart, (and the /fo is just cute); but the decision to revert to instantly recognizable designs was pure marketing.

EDIT: and to throw my unwanted two cents in on the Decimator discussion; it looks too MMO to me... I mean I like it all right for what it is, but a patrol ship with what looks for all the world like a ballroom with a skylight in the middle of the ship.. like the galley in the Serenity... like a crapton of glass in.. I dunno. Looks more like it was designed to be viewed by a player from the inside then by an audience from the outside.

I typed that from my phone and my English autocorrector kept changing it to "insulate" and "inflate", so after correcting it a couple of times, I just put a "su" in there before losing my patience.

And I totally get why people that don't know the whole history of Star Wars may think that the gunboat doesn't fit.

It just doesn't fit today, because of the oversimplification that Star Wars has suffered in the past years. Empire today means TIE cockpit or TIE panels. Remove everything else that isn't like that, so that dumb people don't get confused or overstimulated! (I blame idiocracy for that)

Nevertheless, that doesn't mean that the gunboat wasn't a part of Star Wars for more than 20 years.

Certainly longer than the Decimator (or the Rogue Shadow, or the Imperial Raider), that is basically the materialization of what I just said above: something imperial nowadays has to have superfluous TIE cockpit or panels.

It certainly had more content featuring it than many ships in this miniature game.

The case of the Decimator was just that the team that developed Star Wars Galaxies was really fond of their game feature regarding ships that could fly in space and at the same time allow walking characters to move inside them, something that was quite cool for the time. Kind of a guild house in space. So, all factions had to get one, it made sense or not. And so the Decimator was born. A guild house in space. Of course with a totally superfluous and out of place TIE cockpit.

Well I suppose there is valid reason for a patrol ship like Decimator to have plenty of viewports. Sensor jamming is a thing, so there's some use in being able to look out the window too.

Geth do not use Windows; structural weakness.

At this stage, I'd applaud FFG for not making the gunboat just to annoy the people who keep perpetuating the thread in question.

That seems a little... Spiteful. Did you celebrate the Pokemon hackings and outages because you despise Pokemon Go players as well?

And to those people who want more design diversity for the Empire:

You really don't understand the Empire, do you?

But, that said, I'm a curmudgeon when it comes to the TIE Defender and the TIE Punisher as well. I've only come to (somewhat) like the TIE Phantom because of Echo and how much fun she is to play.

You really don't understand how a military (or any organisation) works: assuming 100% standardisation of logistics and procurement is like thinking every soldier goes into battle with ceremonial uniforms.

You really don't understand how a military (or any organisation) works: assuming 100 standardisation of logistics and procurement is like thinking every soldier goes into battle with ceremonial uniforms.

This is the schism between Star Wars fans in this respect:

Some think the Empire should be like a real military organization and be realistic, with plenty of providers, diverging opinions and tactics, and multiple idiosyncrasies, especially for a group that spans hundreds if not thousands of star systems.

Some think the Empire should be like the Foot Clan in TMNT or basically every evil organization where their assets and henchmen follow some aesthetics to the letter, that must be immediately recognizable, their members basically doubling as icons of their masters.

Well there's another inherent contradiction in lore. Why would an ideology that promotes conflict and a rule of two suddenly throw these principles out of the window for their procurement by allowing monopolies?

The whole galactic footclan argument also falls flat in the face of the fact you have corrupt grand admirals and grand Moffs who have their own armies and resource base and can (within reason) do what they please and use what they want. Which is why you see a CEC class cruiser and not a KDY cruiser trolling the rebels in Rebels.

The one size fits all argument just does not work, in lore or in common sense.

...and certainly not post-RotJ. The First Order - as presented in th Force Awakens - seem little more than Empire fanboys, just like Kylo Ren appears to be a Sith fanboy.

They're both pale imitations of the original. This is not me saying I didn't enjoy the Force Awakens, because I did.