At this stage, I'd applaud FFG for not making the gunboat just to annoy the people who keep perpetuating the thread in question.

I expect that kind of Post from JBR7 and Warpman, but I never expected to see it from you Mikael.

I'm not angry, I'm just... disappointed.

As for people who want JUST A LITTLE diversity in Imperial aesthetic "not understanding the Empire", I understand that the Gunboat has been established Imperial technology For over TWENTY YEARS, and that shares it's aesthetic with the ICONIC Imperial Shuttle.

Hell guys. I want the Y-8 to be in the game. (and of course the DX9).

Who needs DX9 when you have DX12

Wahh. Wahhh. Wahhhhhhhhhh

I hold no positive or negative emotion toward the Gunboat. If they make it I'll buy it and I'll fly it at least a few times as I do with every release.

I'm definitely in the camp that thinks it makes little sense to redesign your production systems to allow for different chassis when you already have a product line that's efficient, versatile, and deliberately modular to accommodate different needs.

But I'm also in the camp that more X wing ships is always better. I don't love the ship, I don't hate the ship. I'll fly it if it comes and I'll be happy for those fans of it that get to do the same.

They can read they can't post,

Which I still think is an insane policy. You can ask the designers questions through email and get replies, but they can't interact with the community as a whole through forums?

Stupid, old fashioned, idiotic thinking.

It'd even save them time, instead of replying to the same questions.

Devs are only human sooner or later something would be said by us to them that'd get a none too pleasant reply because they're having a bad day, that then blows up in gaming media etc etc.

We know they listen that's leaps and bounds ahead of GW or prodos, that's enough for me.

Nonsense, there are plenty of companies that do interact with their customers in meaningful ways all around the globe.

Ah well, it is what it is, FFG is happy this way, so who are we to complain that they maintain no meaningful presence in their own community.

I'm definitely in the camp that thinks it makes little sense to redesign your production systems to allow for different chassis when you already have a product line that's efficient, versatile, and deliberately modular to accommodate different needs.

An answer to this would fit better to the other "main" thread about the ship.

But in brief, you are very right about not making sense to redesigning the production systems. The thing is that this ship wasn't made by the people that made the TIE fighters. It was made by the people that made the Lambda and Sentinel shuttles. So of course it resembles those ships.

While Sienar (the company that made TIEs) specialized on balls with panels attached for different purposes, Cygnus (the company that made shuttles, gunboats, and missileboats) specialized on origami cranes adapted to different purposes.

I'm definitely in the camp that thinks it makes little sense to redesign your production systems to allow for different chassis when you already have a product line that's efficient, versatile, and deliberately modular to accommodate different needs.

Are you talking in-universe, or in real life? In-universe, the gunboat was made by Cygnus Spaceworks, whereas the TIEs were made by Sienar Fleet Systems. SFS would hardly have to redesign their production system just because some other company decides to make a new craft!

In real life, each model requires a unique mold anyway.

Going back to its origins there was so much that was awesome about the gunboat:

1. Hyperdrive

2. Ion Cannon

3. Missiles

4. Shields

Translation: There were so many things that a Gunboat could be used for that no other Imperial ship could that it is easy to see why it was wanted.

In the X-Wing series I'd generally prefer to fly a Gunboat over a Fighter, Bomber, and usually even an Interceptor when given the chance. At least the gunboat could take a hit or two and still finish a mission.

I also appreciate that it is NOT a TIE variation. Sure the Imperials may have worked on uniformity but there was still plenty of room for the Gunboat.

We also need to take into account the context of when this ship was created (in real life).

It was the late 80's early 90's when StarWars was totally, positively dead, and Lucasfilm was trying to insufflate some life in it by releasing content in different media that would deepen the lore of the franchise.

They wanted, among other things, to make the Empire deeper and less unidimensional. So they developed the rationale behind the TIEs being limited to star destroyers and other capital ships, the imperial doctrine... and kept thinking further about it to make it a believable universe.

They realized the Empire needed boarding craft other than the shuttle, that were tougher and carried more troops, and they developed the DX-9 transport to fulfill that task.

They realized TIEs were too limited to answer to trouble if they needed to be carried by a huge warship every time (being Vader's TIE experimental and prototype), so they developed the idea behind the gunboat, being a fast response ship developed by other company.

And so on, so on.

It wasn't until relatively recently that this initiative to make the SW universe deeper, more involved, more believable, was reverted.

As in other aspects of our lives, now everything follows the trend of simplicity, unidimensionality, recognizability, etc.

Everything today has to be reduced to one single button, one single screen, almost cartoon-like characterization of every individual character.

The First Order has TIEs and that's it (and of the same shape, even). The Rebels have X-Wings and that's it.

There is nothing beyond what you see. It doesn't have to be believable or make any sense. It needs to appeal to the masses and sell.

Devs are only human sooner or later something would be said by us to them that'd get a none too pleasant reply because they're having a bad day, that then blows up in gaming media etc etc...

*thinks back to Bioware forums post ME3 release*

Yeah, you've hit the nail on the head there Hobo. FFG Devs - we love you, we love your work, we'd love to shoot the breeze with you, maybe even buy you a frosty pint or two. But best not on a tinternet forum!

We also need to take into account the context of when this ship was created (in real life).

It was the late 80's early 90's when StarWars was totally, positively dead, and Lucasfilm was trying to insuflate some life in it by releasing content in different media that would deepen the lore of the franchise.

They wanted, among other things, to make the Empire deeper and less unidimensional. So they developed the rationale behind the TIEs being limited to star destroyers and other capital ships, the imperial doctrine... and kept thinking further about it to make it a believable universe.

They realized the Empire needed boarding craft other than the shuttle, that were tougher and carried more troops, and they developed the DX-9 transport to fulfill that task.

They realized TIEs were too limited to answer to trouble if they needed to be carried by a huge warship every time (being Vader's TIE experimental and prototype), so they developed the idea behind the gunboat, being a fast response ship developed by other company.

And so on, so on.

It wasn't until relatively recently that this initiative to make the SW universe deeper, more involved, more believable, was reverted.

As in other aspects of our lives, now everything follows the trend of simplicity, unidimensionality, recognizability, etc.

Everything today has to be reduced to one single button, one single screen, almost cartoon-like characterization of every individual character.

The First Order has TIEs and that's it (and of the same shape, even). The Rebels have X-Wings and that's it.

There is nothing beyond what you see. It doesn't have to be believable or make any sense. It needs to appeal to the masses and sell.

Can't agree more with your post

Did somebody say gunboat?

Did somebody say gunboat?

Yes, everyone.

But no-one has answered yet.

This must be how it feels to be part of SETA.

The First Order has TIEs and that's it (and of the same shape, even). The Rebels have X-Wings and that's it.

A-Wings. We know there are A-Wings.

...and someone cobbled a transport out of a left over B-Wing.

Because it's not ANOTHER TIE Fighter.

And it is awesome.

RogueLeader - have you done any painting on the scratchbuild yet? Looking forward to seeing it!

They can read they can't post,

Which I still think is an insane policy. You can ask the designers questions through email and get replies, but they can't interact with the community as a whole through forums?

Stupid, old fashioned, idiotic thinking.

It'd even save them time, instead of replying to the same questions.

And screw up the game design?

The biggest lesson of the last 15 years for game development is the following: You need to listen to your community and ignore what they are asking for.

Game Forums are a blight. Full of JimbonXs, ParaGoombas and JBRS.

That blight WILL influence you as a developer if you start read it on regular base. Email and especially community events are a much healthier way to interact with the community for the designers, while CMs can play the middlemen for toxic places like online forums. It's really not worth it to have a developer interact directly with the fanatics in the forums, it is more often than not downright damaging for the game.

I've long been ambivalent on the gunboat beyond the potentially interesting design space.

But I have to admit, with Disney's star wars apparent move to endless rehashes and reductive design for the foreseeable future... I think I would rather enjoy something so distinctive yet recognisable on the table.

You know, just for a taste of something beyond the inevitable TIE With Slightly Different Panels #14.

Because it's not ANOTHER TIE Fighter.

And it is awesome.

This. It's not a TIE Fighter, but thanks to its obvious resemblance to the Lambda it's still recognizably Imperial.

Nothing special here... I was first...

On a positive note.. it had a better story than the last movie.

At this stage, I'd applaud FFG for not making the gunboat just to annoy the people who keep perpetuating the thread in question.

And to those people who want more design diversity for the Empire:

You really don't understand the Empire, do you?

But, that said, I'm a curmudgeon when it comes to the TIE Defender and the TIE Punisher as well. I've only come to (somewhat) like the TIE Phantom because of Echo and how much fun she is to play.

Come to the darkside, let the hate flow.

On a serious note: You assume that FFG designers are trolls (aka sociopaths) and gratulate them to their excellent trolling.

Fantastic post.

Wow, from reading people's responses to me, I think you were all taking me WAAY too seriously. I suppose I should have added an emoticon or two. But then, someone over on the SW:Rebellion forum also got hurt about something I wrote, and I did have a tongue-out emoticon ( ) to go with it. Long toes, I guess.

And to those people who want more design diversity for the Empire:

You really don't understand the Empire, do you?

IMO the reason you'll only see TIEs forbl the Empire is simple, and has nothing to do with in-universe logic:

Lucas and subsequently the Mouse want their villains immediately identifiable, even if that makes the Empire silly and caartoony on occasion.

From a historical standpoint, I highly doubt one can make a case that autoritary regimes/dictatorships tend more toward uniformity in military gear than democracies.

But we're not talking about a historical standpoint. We're talking about a fictional universe. Also, the in-universe logic was subsequently imposed on the lore. Part of that was a liberal ethic of prizing diversity over uniformity, in which the baddies were depicted as uniformity-loving, compared to the xeno-diverse Rebellion. (Didn't stop Princess Leia and C-3PO from saying some pretty discriminatory things, though. )

But, honestly, I was just doing a bit of light trolling.

(See, emoticons. I'm just funning around.)

RogueLeader - have you done any painting on the scratchbuild yet? Looking forward to seeing it!

As the exams are over and I'm at a glider competition till next week, I can Start with painting next week ^^

Oh, you know I was only kidding Mikael, hence the "not angry, just disappointed" comment. I figured it was not like you!