I'm a Tournament Player, and I play some crazy lists at times...

I don't feel there is a real difference between Casual and Competitive in this game... Because, as was said, there's so many iterations of lists, rarely are they one and the same, and there is no way of saying "This is the best." without getting some sort of negative kickback, "prove it"s, or simple disagreements.

I mean, I'm sure there's people to disagree with my statement. Which is disagreeing with you...

Disagreements!

Lyraeus, for reading your comments for month's, I know the way you think about this. We should not see a difference between the two (casual vs. tournament), but when i'm playing with my friend's, I will try some list (crazy one) that I will not try in a tournament. Why... because I know that my friend's are crazy as me, so we won't come with the kind of list that you built to be sure to aim for the win at all cost.

This is my conception. This game is for fun and I'm not a tournament player anyway (but I can understand people who like this). And this way the game is never redundant for us (rarely the same list). All what I was trying to said to Norell Author of this tread) is a way to see more wave 1 squadrons on the mat and counter the feeling of over-powered unit as he think they are.

O.o wait. . . I have been stalked!

I play crazy lists all the time! 6 Nebs, 5 Nebs, my Nebs Away, etc in tournaments. Why are Nebs the crazy lists?

IceQube has it right I think. Armada is the game of the People. Every list is a potential tournament list, every list can win but it relies on you as the player. There is no "Overpowered" or "Underpowered", there is only experienced and inexperienced.

I am not sure if they are over powerful or that the basic TiE fighter/Interceptor just suck so bad (I am looking at you three health). Now if you have the amazing rolls that some people talk about this would change (I have seen people say that you can one shot an X-wing with an Interceptor every time).

Lol

An interceptor with howl, swarm and flight controllers can one shot an Awing roughly 50% of the time.

So not quite that ridiculous.

But a 50% on a squadron with one less hit, is very different than a 100% on the tougher X-wing.

@CDAT : TIE Fighters and Interceptors are a bit different than Rebel Fighters due to the 3 HP and due to the changing meta in Wave 2. While you can use them to snipe stuff in Alpha Strike (much less effective with Jan Ors), I feel that they're better used either as ablative shields for your ships, either as interception while your ships tank a couple of shots.

TIEs I found worked best in defensive scenarios coupled with AA barrage !

They are a bit different. They require a different style of play. Unless you are going to jump them down the enemy's throat in about 3-5 squadrons in a single squadron command, then you should normally let your opponent waste activations in the squadron phase to come to them. You can also watch distances and learn to jump in with them. It is harder but it requires a lot of skill. The TIE and TIE/IN game is another depth to squadron use that many people dont think of.

Oh and those TIE's are not great at attacking any ship with more than a blue die of fire back, in fact, they hate black dice ships more and love Rhymer.

I've spent hours looking at squadrons and cost effectiveness and all that, and I'm of the opinion that, as a whole, squadrons are well costed, giving each a distinct role.

The two squadrons I think could drop a point or two in price are the YT1300 and to a lesser degree the Scurg. Even then, they both have roles they excel at, just maybe they don't perform quite as well to make up for other shortcomings.

Wave 3/4 changes this by adding new ways to move squadrons around- the currently slow YT1300 will definitely gain a nice boost from fighter coordination team.

I am not sure if they are over powerful or that the basic TiE fighter/Interceptor just suck so bad (I am looking at you three health). Now if you have the amazing rolls that some people talk about this would change (I have seen people say that you can one shot an X-wing with an Interceptor every time).

Lol

An interceptor with howl, swarm and flight controllers can one shot an Awing roughly 50% of the time.

So not quite that ridiculous.

But a 50% on a squadron with one less hit, is very different than a 100% on the tougher X-wing.

Agreed. I was mostly writing that out to work out exactly how ludicrous the statement made by others is.

I've spent hours looking at squadrons and cost effectiveness and all that, and I'm of the opinion that, as a whole, squadrons are well costed, giving each a distinct role.

The two squadrons I think could drop a point or two in price are the YT1300 and to a lesser degree the Scurg. Even then, they both have roles they excel at, just maybe they don't perform quite as well to make up for other shortcomings.

Wave 3/4 changes this by adding new ways to move squadrons around- the currently slow YT1300 will definitely gain a nice boost from fighter coordination team.

You should see how I use the 1300's. I LOVE those guys! I don't need speed to get what I want just a plan. Remember that the 1300's are not go getter's. They want to be sought after so that means you need to put them in the way.

I am not sure if they are over powerful or that the basic TiE fighter/Interceptor just suck so bad (I am looking at you three health). Now if you have the amazing rolls that some people talk about this would change (I have seen people say that you can one shot an X-wing with an Interceptor every time).

Lol

An interceptor with howl, swarm and flight controllers can one shot an Awing roughly 50% of the time.

So not quite that ridiculous.

But a 50% on a squadron with one less hit, is very different than a 100% on the tougher X-wing.

Agreed. I was mostly writing that out to work out exactly how ludicrous the statement made by others is.

Yea that combo will allow the Howlrunner to attack get swarm, then have the Interceptor come in and destroy that X-Wing.

I am not sure if they are over powerful or that the basic TiE fighter/Interceptor just suck so bad (I am looking at you three health). Now if you have the amazing rolls that some people talk about this would change (I have seen people say that you can one shot an X-wing with an Interceptor every time).

Lol

An interceptor with howl, swarm and flight controllers can one shot an Awing roughly 50% of the time.

So not quite that ridiculous.

But a 50% on a squadron with one less hit, is very different than a 100% on the tougher X-wing.

Agreed. I was mostly writing that out to work out exactly how ludicrous the statement made by others is.

Yea that combo will allow the Howlrunner to attack get swarm, then have the Interceptor come in and destroy that X-Wing.

I am not saying they can not kill it, but even that is not a one shot. I am lucky if I end up doing one point of damage with each so I end up needing five to one.

I've spent hours looking at squadrons and cost effectiveness and all that, and I'm of the opinion that, as a whole, squadrons are well costed, giving each a distinct role.

The two squadrons I think could drop a point or two in price are the YT1300 and to a lesser degree the Scurg. Even then, they both have roles they excel at, just maybe they don't perform quite as well to make up for other shortcomings.

Wave 3/4 changes this by adding new ways to move squadrons around- the currently slow YT1300 will definitely gain a nice boost from fighter coordination team.

You should see how I use the 1300's. I LOVE those guys! I don't need speed to get what I want just a plan. Remember that the 1300's are not go getter's. They want to be sought after so that means you need to put them in the way.

Intel kinda ruins that. Escort or being a threat are the only ways to be sought after, and the YT is neither, and the XWing is both for the same price.

I've spent hours looking at squadrons and cost effectiveness and all that, and I'm of the opinion that, as a whole, squadrons are well costed, giving each a distinct role.

The two squadrons I think could drop a point or two in price are the YT1300 and to a lesser degree the Scurg. Even then, they both have roles they excel at, just maybe they don't perform quite as well to make up for other shortcomings.

Wave 3/4 changes this by adding new ways to move squadrons around- the currently slow YT1300 will definitely gain a nice boost from fighter coordination team.

You should see how I use the 1300's. I LOVE those guys! I don't need speed to get what I want just a plan. Remember that the 1300's are not go getter's. They want to be sought after so that means you need to put them in the way.

Intel kinda ruins that. Escort or being a threat are the only ways to be sought after, and the YT is neither, and the XWing is both for the same price.

YT1300's ARE Escort........!

I've spent hours looking at squadrons and cost effectiveness and all that, and I'm of the opinion that, as a whole, squadrons are well costed, giving each a distinct role.

The two squadrons I think could drop a point or two in price are the YT1300 and to a lesser degree the Scurg. Even then, they both have roles they excel at, just maybe they don't perform quite as well to make up for other shortcomings.

Wave 3/4 changes this by adding new ways to move squadrons around- the currently slow YT1300 will definitely gain a nice boost from fighter coordination team.

You should see how I use the 1300's. I LOVE those guys! I don't need speed to get what I want just a plan. Remember that the 1300's are not go getter's. They want to be sought after so that means you need to put them in the way.

Intel kinda ruins that. Escort or being a threat are the only ways to be sought after, and the YT is neither, and the XWing is both for the same price.

YT1300's ARE Escort........!

Escort, Counter, 3 Blue against squadrons. . . 7 hull, 13 points, and work AMAZING with Jan Ors.

And in the interests of fair representation.

YT1300's are also speed 2.

When that isnt limiting to your fleet they are monsters.

When R and V came out, I calculated that the Rogue keyword adds approximately 3 points to the cost of the unit. So a single rogue not bad. Multiples start to really dent your points. At the same time I also showed that using A-wings vs ships, you should always be able to get 4 shots per game on (non speed 4) ships. So rogue would only add at most 1 more attack. An experienced player should be able to issue squadron commands at the appropriate times to make most rogue purchases pointless. Rogue is an easy button to encourage squadron usage in an era when squadron less lists were a thing.

YT1300's ARE Escort........!

D'oh. I knew that.

When R and V came out, I calculated that the Rogue keyword adds approximately 3 points to the cost of the unit. So a single rogue not bad. Multiples start to really dent your points. At the same time I also showed that using A-wings vs ships, you should always be able to get 4 shots per game on (non speed 4) ships. So rogue would only add at most 1 more attack. An experienced player should be able to issue squadron commands at the appropriate times to make most rogue purchases pointless. Rogue is an easy button to encourage squadron usage in an era when squadron less lists were a thing.

I disagree with your last point, because it also depends on your fleet configuration. If you take ships that suck at squadrons or want to be doing other things, then Rogues are definitely not pointless. They are necessary for tying up other squadrons to keep ships alive. They are definitely trumped by 100% activated squadrons, but still have their place. The problem I find, which flotillas will mitigate somewhat, is the Rebels all have bloated carriers. The AFmkII, in my experience, doesn't live all that long as it is usually focused on first. And the MC80 is not my jam, really. The nebulon is kind of cool and cheaper but also kind of dies quick fast due to its weird arcs, but I like taking Yavaris out for a spin once in a while.

With the flotillas, I find myself building activating squadons into my lists much easier. Right now, with the ships I like to fly, having even the one generic rogue that we get really helps out my squadron game.

Everything has its place. You need to consider what your overall fleet will be doing and how the squadrons fit into that.

Rogue is awesome for lists that dont have a lot of squadron capacity. YT2400s are a great match for corvette and MC30 lists. Rogue also is good because you can operate in the end turn after all the "regular" squadrons have committed.

Firesprays are great little gun boats that can be really good at hunting down damaged stragglers that have escaped your star destroyers front arcs.

Wheras regular squadrons generally mesh with your ships and gain far greater synergy than the rogues do (funny that...)

Even the humble tie fighter - for 8 points, is the cheapest antisquad fire dice per point you can get, and spamming them gets you deployment advantage quickly.

I just wish I could come up with a way I thought I could make the Tie Interceptors work also.

Everything has its place. You need to consider what your overall fleet will be doing and how the squadrons fit into that.

Rogue is awesome for lists that dont have a lot of squadron capacity. YT2400s are a great match for corvette and MC30 lists. Rogue also is good because you can operate in the end turn after all the "regular" squadrons have committed.

Firesprays are great little gun boats that can be really good at hunting down damaged stragglers that have escaped your star destroyers front arcs.

Wheras regular squadrons generally mesh with your ships and gain far greater synergy than the rogues do (funny that...)

Even the humble tie fighter - for 8 points, is the cheapest antisquad fire dice per point you can get, and spamming them gets you deployment advantage quickly.

I just wish I could come up with a way I thought I could make the Tie Interceptors work also.

In my experience, Howlrunner + 4 or so Interceptors is the best anti-squadron unit around, pound for pound. I've been on the receiving end of that one and Counter 3 hurts!

Fair enough, and probably a good investment if you expect to face a rhymer ball or lots of rogues.

But if your opponent is fighting with their squadrons covered by their own ships flak those squints are going to die horribly.

I don't consider R&V overpowered either. I play in an extremely squadron heavy local meta. Rogue has a home if you are not planning on ever activating squadrons or you don't expect to activate all of them. We see it as:

Command activated squads > Rogue > non-activated squads.

If you are activating squads, Rogue is mostly redundant and wasted points. If you are not activating, Rogue provides tremendous flexibility. If you are neither activating nor have rogue, then you had better be using them just as a meat shield for your ships (1300s work well here) or as barnacles for opposing ships.

When wave 3 drops, I will be trying Jan/3xXwing/4xYT2400 at 122 points. I will be using a Bright Hope/EHB to activate all the non-rogues and then moving the rogues during squadron phase. I hope to get the best of both worlds.

I don't think I have seen an OP combo in this game yet. Makes me like its balance that much more, other than X-Wing...

YT1300's ARE Escort........!

D'oh. I knew that.

I think this is part of the bigger issue with them, not that they are over powered, but that they are kind of stupid. Not saying that they are unplayable or anything, but the concept why would a standard light freighter have counter and be an escort?

YT1300's ARE Escort........!

D'oh. I knew that.

I think this is part of the bigger issue with them, not that they are over powered, but that they are kind of stupid. Not saying that they are unplayable or anything, but the concept why would a standard light freighter have counter and be an escort?

It has Counter because its armed with Quad cannons on the top and bottom - its difficult to get shots at it from fighters without taking some damage in return....

And it has Escort because its big and bulky and gets in the way of other things that you are trying to shoot at...... Its basically a slow, Ugly Shield with Guns

Besides, there's nothing "Standard" about the YT Frames... That was the whole reason they were sold

I really dislike the rogue rule. It feels anti thematic that boba fett can move and shoot while Darth Vader and Wedge can't. Is Boba that much of a better pilot? There is a blog post that goes into a lot better detail about this somewhere out on the inter webs. So I'll leave it at that.

I don't think it's game breaking or even OP. But, rules wise it just doesn't make sense to me. Why craft the game in a very specific manner where squadrons either move or shoot but not both and then break it? Named characters/ships it doesn't bother me so much becuase you can only take one. But I find it irritating when a list is maxed out with 5-8 (in my mind) Outriders or Slave I's.

I would have been more agreeable to the rule if it carried a negative side effect like escort. A double edged sword so to speak. Something along the lines that bounty hunters don't fall under imperial control so any ship with rogue can not be activated with squadron tokens/commands. Ergo, they can move and shoot but will never be activated with squadron commands.

Just my $0.02.