Haven't read all of the comments, but I'm just going to pop in to say that I use a squadron heavy mix of new and old. Fireball with Dengar, Mithel, and Vader. Mithel can be a crazy monster against squadron heavy opponents. My cousin rolled poorly in the squadron game last week, and my Mithel probably did roughly 20 damage with his 360° mega shotgun of killing everything. Vader gets sweet-ass counter from Dengar (but excellent damage on his own, as well.)

R+V are good for sure, but so are many of the Wave 1 squadrons. Find what works for you. I pay the ludicrous extra money for Firesprays, but that's because single black bomber dice for me have 4 blank sides, and 3 single hit sides. They're terrible.

I would have been more agreeable to the rule if it carried a negative side effect like escort. A double edged sword so to speak. Something along the lines that bounty hunters don't fall under imperial control so any ship with rogue can not be activated with squadron tokens/commands. Ergo, they can move and shoot but will never be activated with squadron commands.

I don't see Escort as a Negative... I pick Escort for Escort. Its nothing but a Positive.

And the Negative to Rogue is... Cost.

Pure and simple, they're more expensive than they would be without it...

If you attached a further negative to them, they'd be even cheaper and that would be a problem.

Thematically, they may see a little skew-iff... But at least they're relatively balanced in a points way.

I really dislike the rogue rule. It feels anti thematic that boba fett can move and shoot while Darth Vader and Wedge can't. Is Boba that much of a better pilot? There is a blog post that goes into a lot better detail about this somewhere out on the inter webs. So I'll leave it at that.

I don't think it's game breaking or even OP. But, rules wise it just doesn't make sense to me. Why craft the game in a very specific manner where squadrons either move or shoot but not both and then break it? Named characters/ships it doesn't bother me so much becuase you can only take one. But I find it irritating when a list is maxed out with 5-8 (in my mind) Outriders or Slave I's.

I would have been more agreeable to the rule if it carried a negative side effect like escort. A double edged sword so to speak. Something along the lines that bounty hunters don't fall under imperial control so any ship with rogue can not be activated with squadron tokens/commands. Ergo, they can move and shoot but will never be activated with squadron commands.

Just my $0.02.

It does carry a drawback. It makes the squadron more expensive. It recommends that you don't use a squadron command, so you don't get to activate until the squadron phase, meanwhile, many non-Rogues get to activate in the ship phase - they attack first.

Rogue doesn't mean or suggest that anyone is a better pilot. Wedge and Vader both belong to organized military units. They fly in formation, and as such their utilization is maximized when they receive coordination from the capital ships.

Rogues operate more independently, and individually they are more powerful, but they are also less efficient.

Let see Dash Rendar died very quickly to my Wedge+Dutch+X-wing combo in the last game I played.

As mentioned by others, you pay points to get the Rogue ability, but that leads to waiting to activate them in the squadron phase, where you might risk loosing them beforehand in the ship phase, at the hands of a swarm of Vanilla squadrons.

You could activate them in the ship phase, but then you have payed points for an ability you dont use.

Only Solo gets the full benefit out of Rogue as he can activate in the beginning of the Ship phase.

(BECAUSE HAN SOLO ALWAYS SHOOT FIRST :) )

I would have been more agreeable to the rule if it carried a negative side effect like escort. A double edged sword so to speak. Something along the lines that bounty hunters don't fall under imperial control so any ship with rogue can not be activated with squadron tokens/commands. Ergo, they can move and shoot but will never be activated with squadron commands.

I don't see Escort as a Negative... I pick Escort for Escort. Its nothing but a Positive.

And the Negative to Rogue is... Cost.

Pure and simple, they're more expensive than they would be without it...

If you attached a further negative to them, they'd be even cheaper and that would be a problem.

Thematically, they may see a little skew-iff... But at least they're relatively balanced in a points way.

Really? You’ve never been in a situation where you wished you didn’t have “escort” on Luke, Wedge or Vader? I find that hard to believe. On the flip side there has never been a situation in a game where I was like “****, allowing my firesprays to move and shoot is really screwing me over right now.” On a rules basis there is no drawback to rogue… NONE. They have too much flexibility that doesn't make sense to me.

I said I don’t think Rogue is OP or game breaking and the reason for that is COST. But that doesn’t change my opinion that I don’t like the rule itself. It goes directly counter to the way the game was made in my opinion. FFG specifically made squadrons with the mechanism that they had to choose between movement and shooting but then decided to break that rule with generic rogue fighters? Just because something is appropriately priced point wise doesn’t make it a perfect addition to the game.

Rogue doesn't mean or suggest that anyone is a better pilot. Wedge and Vader both belong to organized military units. They fly in formation, and as such their utilization is maximized when they receive coordination from the capital ships.

Rogues operate more independently, and individually they are more powerful, but they are also less efficient.

Shenanigans... firesprays are always flying in formation bunched up around a Mr. Rhymer. If rogues were supposed to be "independent" and "individual" you wouldn't see lists with 8 rogues in them... but you do... and they are rather effective despite their cost. Rogue provides too much flexibility. Also, from a game perspective being able to shoot and move without the mother ship telling you what to do makes you a better pilot from a thematic point. Currently, Luke is too stupid to know how to fly and shoot at the same time without outside help, this doesn't make sense to me.

In short sentence summary, I don't like the rogue rule, it doesn't fit thematically or mechanically even if it is priced appropriately... in my opinion.

*edit: dem typos

And in the interests of fair representation.

YT1300's are also speed 2.

When that isnt limiting to your fleet they are monsters.

I think that players should play with speed 2 squadrons for a dozen games to get used to how to maximize the effectiveness of their squadrons, their placement and their Tactics.

Everything has its place. You need to consider what your overall fleet will be doing and how the squadrons fit into that.

Rogue is awesome for lists that dont have a lot of squadron capacity. YT2400s are a great match for corvette and MC30 lists. Rogue also is good because you can operate in the end turn after all the "regular" squadrons have committed.

Firesprays are great little gun boats that can be really good at hunting down damaged stragglers that have escaped your star destroyers front arcs.

Wheras regular squadrons generally mesh with your ships and gain far greater synergy than the rogues do (funny that...)

Even the humble tie fighter - for 8 points, is the cheapest antisquad fire dice per point you can get, and spamming them gets you deployment advantage quickly.

I just wish I could come up with a way I thought I could make the Tie Interceptors work also.

In my experience, Howlrunner + 4 or so Interceptors is the best anti-squadron unit around, pound for pound. I've been on the receiving end of that one and Counter 3 hurts!

It is strong but not the end all be all.

It is all about use and intent.

Really? You’ve never been in a situation where you wished you didn’t have “escort” on Luke, Wedge or Vader? I find that hard to believe.

Nope.

Believe it.

1) If I'm running Vader, then Vader's protecting Dengar. At All Costs. Because he's my only Escort. I've bought an Escort with 2 Braces instead of bringing 2-3 Escorts. Possibly as well because I don't have the Squadron Activations to run multiple escorts and my bomber wing.

2) If I'm running Wedge, then I'm running Rieekan, and Wedge is the All Time Zombie Escort Winner. Simple as that.

3) I don't run Luke Whiffwalker until I've got Bomber Command Centers out there...

People are not thinking about the thematics of how squadrons work.

Normal squadrons can only move or attack when not commanded becuase they are carrying out basic Combat Patrols or other duties and have not received commands to do otherwise. Even Darth Vader and Wedge took orders when they were flying becuase they did not have the full picture of events to do otherwise.

Rogue on the other hand represents a squadrons ability to disobey their orders and go out and do what they think is needed as well as to represent their understanding of the battlefield with their more powerful combat computers.

Really? You’ve never been in a situation where you wished you didn’t have “escort” on Luke, Wedge or Vader? I find that hard to believe.

Nope.

Believe it.

1) If I'm running Vader, then Vader's protecting Dengar. At All Costs. Because he's my only Escort. I've bought an Escort with 2 Braces instead of bringing 2-3 Escorts. Possibly as well because I don't have the Squadron Activations to run multiple escorts and my bomber wing.

2) If I'm running Wedge, then I'm running Rieekan, and Wedge is the All Time Zombie Escort Winner. Simple as that.

3) I don't run Luke Whiffwalker until I've got Bomber Command Centers out there...

Really? You’ve never been in a situation where you wished you didn’t have “escort” on Luke, Wedge or Vader? I find that hard to believe.

Nope.

Believe it.

1) If I'm running Vader, then Vader's protecting Dengar. At All Costs. Because he's my only Escort. I've bought an Escort with 2 Braces instead of bringing 2-3 Escorts. Possibly as well because I don't have the Squadron Activations to run multiple escorts and my bomber wing.

2) If I'm running Wedge, then I'm running Rieekan, and Wedge is the All Time Zombie Escort Winner. Simple as that.

3) I don't run Luke Whiffwalker until I've got Bomber Command Centers out there...

I feel that just further supports my argument that rogue provides too much flexibility. The fact that you only use Vader to protect Dengar and you only field wedge with reikaan shows how niche they are yet YT-2400s are jack of all trades, not quite the best but far from the worst at everything.

If you have only 1 source of Intel...you need to protect it...there is nothing OP about that. It's just protecting a key asset.

(and now we can argue about the fighter game being SILLY before R&V...or it it|s STILL SILLY)

Really? You’ve never been in a situation where you wished you didn’t have “escort” on Luke, Wedge or Vader? I find that hard to believe.

Nope.

Believe it.

1) If I'm running Vader, then Vader's protecting Dengar. At All Costs. Because he's my only Escort. I've bought an Escort with 2 Braces instead of bringing 2-3 Escorts. Possibly as well because I don't have the Squadron Activations to run multiple escorts and my bomber wing.

2) If I'm running Wedge, then I'm running Rieekan, and Wedge is the All Time Zombie Escort Winner. Simple as that.

3) I don't run Luke Whiffwalker until I've got Bomber Command Centers out there...

I feel that just further supports my argument that rogue provides too much flexibility. The fact that you only use Vader to protect Dengar and you only field wedge with reikaan shows how niche they are yet YT-2400s are jack of all trades, not quite the best but far from the worst at everything.

Because the rest of the time, I barely use named squadrons at all.......

8x X-Wings? Sure.

8x YT-2400?

Any day

8x YT-2400?

Any day

10 X wings vs 8 YT-2400... YTs every time. No contest. To me that's not cool.

And in the interests of fair representation.

YT1300's are also speed 2.

When that isnt limiting to your fleet they are monsters.

Speed 2 is only an issue to those who think it to be an issue. Speed 2 can at times be far better for you as a player I think that faster squadrons. Sure faster squadrons will be able to flit around the board easier but they will also get players into trouble easier.

I think that players should play with speed 2 squadrons for a dozen games to get used to how to maximize the effectiveness of their squadrons, their placement and their Tactics.

That's an interesting point. Kinda like the 2 touch rule when practicing football(soccer) where you train that you can't give the ball more than 2 touches (1 to control and one to pass) to teach people to let the ball do the work and run off the ball.

I recently started helping a newer player and once I made him understand the concept of B-wings as "moving minefield" he won 2 games in a row against experienced opponents

8x YT-2400?

Any day

10 X wings vs 8 YT-2400... YTs every time. No contest. To me that's not cool.

Look, if you're willing to buy 8 R&V packs, more power to you...

But I still have more dice on the table, and I'm probably building to use it, which means I'm going to be striking first - potentially with other squad based upgrades that will help...

The YTs are, on paper, far more flexible and straightforward.

But, just as the Entire Imperial Navy are "more straightforward" with their wide forward arcs and guns, that doesn't make them better.

Really? YTs every time? You trigger most of the Xwings with squadron commands to get them in play. Once the two sides start playing Farkle and not moving, Rogue is a liability as you spent 32 points (4 per squadron with Rogue) on the Rogue keyword and not more on ship stats. Because Xwings have 50HP and 40 blue sice to 48HP and 32 blue dice with the YTs.

There is some liability in the speed 3 to speed 4 difference though.

To be clear: I do think YT2400s are super simple squads to field and get a lot out of. They aren't auto-win though. Dropping 1 for Jan becomes disguating though.

8x YT-2400?

Any day

10 X wings vs 8 YT-2400... YTs every time. No contest. To me that's not cool.

11 A wings vs 8 YT2400... I think I'll go with AWings

yeah, A-Wing ball totally dumps on YT-2400s. Faster and if played right Counter makes it so they get an extra die in attacks vs YTs. Will be even more disgusting with Torryn Farr

8x YT-2400?

Any day

10 X wings vs 8 YT-2400... YTs every time. No contest. To me that's not cool.

Give the X-Wings Flight Controllers and that may change. Keep the X-Wings near to your ship and the extra Anti-Squadron dice you throw may help.

And in the interests of fair representation.

YT1300's are also speed 2.

When that isnt limiting to your fleet they are monsters.

Speed 2 is only an issue to those who think it to be an issue. Speed 2 can at times be far better for you as a player I think that faster squadrons. Sure faster squadrons will be able to flit around the board easier but they will also get players into trouble easier.

I think that players should play with speed 2 squadrons for a dozen games to get used to how to maximize the effectiveness of their squadrons, their placement and their Tactics.

That's an interesting point. Kinda like the 2 touch rule when practicing football(soccer) where you train that you can't give the ball more than 2 touches (1 to control and one to pass) to teach people to let the ball do the work and run off the ball.

I recently started helping a newer player and once I made him understand the concept of B-wings as "moving minefield" he won 2 games in a row against experienced opponents

8x YT-2400?

Any day

10 X wings vs 8 YT-2400... YTs every time. No contest. To me that's not cool.

Give the X-Wings Flight Controllers and that may change. Keep the X-Wings near to your ship and the extra Anti-Squadron dice you throw may help.

The squadron game is not all about abilities, dice, or stats. Just like the rest of Armada, they rely on the skill of the players

Dropping 1 for Jan becomes disguating though.

Jan without escorts? That takes a special kind of brave.

Just one more tick in the X-wing's column: option to amplify extraordinarily well with Jan.

I really dislike the rogue rule. It feels anti thematic that boba fett can move and shoot while Darth Vader and Wedge can't. Is Boba that much of a better pilot?

Are you sure you don't mean that it's not that you hate the Rogue rule, but that you hate the fact that the heroes of Star Wars like Vader, Wedge and Luke etc don't have it?

"Luke, you switched off your targeting computer! What's wrong?"

"Nothing. I'm all right."

"Are you sure? Without our say-so you can't even move and shoot!"

"Oh right, derp."