I am just happy they made it not another hypermobility ace ship. It has a mechanical idenity that really was not around before and I can respect that.

I agree with this. It hurts me a bit that Imperials have been compressed in to Aces or swarms. I would really enjoy more variety from them.

I don't see how the ARC having more greens matters much, as the ARC is very expensive and has some of the most underwhelming pilot abilities ever unveiled. But seriously, how are some of you saying that the T70 has a better dial?

Having a Red 1 Turn > no 1 Turn

Sloop > T-Roll
Both have 1 Forward

True, the SF TIE has red 3-Turns, but 2-Turns often work almost just as well.

If you're really bothered by those Red 3-Turns, you can always:
--TIE Ion Engine MKII if you just want more greens, as now you have 9 Green Maneuvers for 1pt
--1pt Electronic Baffle (if you're really worried about it) to Sloop and Barrel Roll on turns where it is crucially important


But unlike the T70, this thing has a rear arc . Hell, "Backdraft" is better off using his Rear Arc, as his average hits are 3/2.5/2.5 in the rear assuming he hasn't even taken an action. So maneuverability is far less important, because you can tolerate things chasing you or behind you to some extent (and in Backdraft's case he actually prefers ships back there).


Can anyone explain to me how/why the T70 dial is better, or how this thing isn't a vastly superior T70? I'm just not seeing it, and actually think that the SF dial is better, the cost is better, the upgrade options are better, and the pilot abilities are better.

Same. Its part of the reason i like my bombers/defenders. They still feel like imperial ships without being an arc dodger.

Defenders are a bit of a yo-yo though...i find it really hard to not do 3-4 Kturns in a row rofl

Even though im glad this thing has a 3sloop like i was hoping, im also a little upset that the T70 is still the only ship with a TRoll. Not even the new falcon title can be a TRoll since it does a 180 after the move, meaning it is rotating 90 from its original facing and NOT a "off to the side Kturn"

All I can say is, as a casual gamer with a love for thematic squads, I'm happy to see another First Order ship. While it's visually very similar to the other TIE, it brings its own extra tricks to the table, so I'm looking forward to building some fun First Order lists with this.

This and...

[...] I might not get 4 SF's since i noticed its impossible to have 4 with ACs (sadface....) but im definitely getting 3. I tend to avoid the tournament scene because you never see any ingenuity there, its all the same lists over and over, and i am going to have a blast with these guys. ARCs too but not as much

I'm going with 4 TIE FO and two TIE s/f in my kit. Even if I can get three in a single squad they are Special Forces and this way it forces me to mix it up a bit. My kit typically includes enough for Epic battles so TIE wise it is 8 TIE l/n, 4 TIE Interceptors, 4 TIE FO and 2 TIE s/f. Of course you'll never fit all of them in a 400 point game but options. I'm stuck on how many TIE Defenders agh... two was the perfect number but now that veterans came out 4 seems fun but maybe too deadly so I'll split the difference and carry 3.

i ran a 300pt game with a Gozanti, i might have been able to squeeze most of my tie fighters in there if i didnt have the 2 defenders on the side.

4 Tie/fo, 4 tie, 2 defender, gozanti. Course i was also trying to protect the Gozanti a bit too much...i had DTF on all 4 tie/fos and they also had shields upgrade lol. Mistake, since i never once got that card off between all 4 of them. Its difficult to keep ships near your gozanti....it moves so oddly.

I only got 4 tie/fos but i got 9 ties lol. Tempted to buy another literally just to get even numbers because that bugs the hell out of me. Same for interceptors (got 3) lol.

I tend to avoid the tournament scene because you never see any ingenuity there, its all the same lists over and over

I attended my first tournament over the weekend. Only 12 people. But! No one ran the same list as anyone else. Also: the lists that were run tended to be interesting variants on "standard" lists.

So for whatever that's worth.

I tend to avoid the tournament scene because you never see any ingenuity there, its all the same lists over and over

I attended my first tournament over the weekend. Only 12 people. But! No one ran the same list as anyone else. Also: the lists that were run tended to be interesting variants on "standard" lists.

So for whatever that's worth.

12 people makes me think that was a local tourny. Thats different, im at all the ones my FLGS puts up (max 30 of us in the area give or take) and its usually pretty diverse. Its also primarily all friends using it as an excuse to have a long day at the game store. Im referring to the ones you travel to such as Regional or Worlds.

QuickDraw can conceivably make 4 attacks in one round with the SpecOps Training title, right?

The title isn't limited to once per round, so she uses her ability once, trigger title for a rear attack, then make a normal attack and trigger the title again. For a total of 2 shots forward and 2 shots to the rear.

I don't see anything stopping that, but in 9 pages of discussion on the article no one seems to have mentioned it.

the chances of you pulling off a double-arc at all are basically non-existant

the chances you pulling it off with Quickdraw (i.e, dead and gone after the first round of shooting) is as close to 0 as you can get

you're better off driving her into the enemy and pulling 6/8 total dice into something that has to die rather than banking on a dream scenario

Gee thanks for not addressing my question and instead commenting on a tactics issue that I couldn't have cared less about.

Fortunately someone in another thread actually ANSWERED my question.

Just had this thought pop into my head: Keyan with Collision Detector, E2 Mod and Dash crew. Cares not for obstacles (especially debris) at all...

Can anyone explain to me how/why the T70 dial is better, or how this thing isn't a vastly superior T70? I'm just not seeing it, and actually think that the SF dial is better, the cost is better, the upgrade options are better, and the pilot abilities are better.

You are correct, it has significant advantages over a T70 according to science.

Even with the improvements, the generic 'Zeta Specialist' is still overcosted at 23 points.

At least the T70 has Poe

At least the Tie/SF has Quickdraw

Ha that would actually give him some defense too.

His attacks are unobstructed thanks to Dash, but return fire is obstructed.

That dial is... not great. Lots of red maneuvers and few options for clearing stress

Twin Ion Engine would like a word...

I don't see how the ARC having more greens matters much, as the ARC is very expensive and has some of the most underwhelming pilot abilities ever unveiled. But seriously, how are some of you saying that the T70 has a better dial?

Having a Red 1 Turn > no 1 Turn Agreed

Sloop > T-Roll I disagree

Both have 1 Forward Sure

Red 3 turn < White 3 turn

No K-turn < Red K-turn

True, the SF TIE has red 3-Turns, but 2-Turns often work almost just as well. Sometimes they're okay, but red three turns on a TIE Fighter? Just no.

If you're really bothered by those Red 3-Turns, you can always:

--TIE Ion Engine MKII if you just want more greens, as now you have 9 Green Maneuvers for 1pt Spend more points on an already expensive TIE Fighter? Maybe on a named pilot, but the generics are already too expensive.

--1pt Electronic Baffle (if you're really worried about it) to Sloop and Barrel Roll on turns where it is crucially important Baffle is okay on Quickdraw, but these will go down so fast anyways you probably shouldn't help the opponent by damaging themselves.

But unlike the T70, this thing has a rear arc . Hell, "Backdraft" is better off using his Rear Arc, as his average hits are 3/2.5/2.5 in the rear assuming he hasn't even taken an action. So maneuverability is far less important, because you can tolerate things chasing you or behind you to some extent (and in Backdraft's case he actually prefers ships back there). If only Backdraft knew how to fly backwards. Backdraft has to survive at least one round of combat before he'll have anybody in his rear arc, after that he's a slightly better ATC. He's decent, but far from amazing.

Can anyone explain to me how/why the T70 dial is better, or how this thing isn't a vastly superior T70? I'm just not seeing it, and actually think that the SF dial is better, the cost is better, the upgrade options are better, and the pilot abilities are better. The T-70 dial is a lot more open, has access to amazing astromechs, more pilots, boost, and autothrusters.

All the rest of the points aside, this thing doesn't feel like a TIE Fighter, let alone an elite TIE Fighter reserved only for the First Orders best pilots. If they were to have shown off the dial and statline you would have never guessed this belonged to a Special Forces TIE Fighter.

Also, Poe is seemly easily impressed, as his clunky old T-70 is faster than this state of the art TIE Fighter.

the Activation Attack is still incredible even with that dial. especially if you get to shoot in the combat phase as well.

backdraft has potential but isnt a gamechanger like quickdraw imo, and i am very disappointed i cant feasibly run 4 in 100 (i can see why they arent 22 tho. definitely better than b wings but i was hopeful). guess itll be QD as the ace for a swarm of FOs assisted by the antistress unique or something

I am just happy they made it not another hypermobility ace ship. It has a mechanical idenity that really was not around before and I can respect that.

I agree with this. It hurts me a bit that Imperials have been compressed in to Aces or swarms. I would really enjoy more variety from them.

it's sad, but that's the state of things

that said, and while I recognize soontir is far more competitively reliable for the same base cost , I've really warmed to "Backdraft"

dude's just a cheap, high PS small-based firespray that can roll (and not take nearly as many hits, but come on something has to give)

he won't be nearly as reliable as ace de jour in competitive play, but he offers a fun new playstyle on top of a limited but also fun dial with sloops (and hopefully pattern analyzer from Heroes, ie "perform action" before "check pilot stress" on red maneuver)

with VI and FCS at 30 points, he could be a decent pilot to bring to a game for the sake of variety without shooting yourself in the foot

Have we actually seen the ARC 170 dial? Yes it has been described to the point where we can probably assume it to be close.

Just wondering if I missed something.

I am just happy they made it not another hypermobility ace ship. It has a mechanical idenity that really was not around before and I can respect that.

I agree with this. It hurts me a bit that Imperials have been compressed in to Aces or swarms. I would really enjoy more variety from them.

it's sad, but that's the state of things

that said, and while I recognize soontir is far more competitively reliable for the same base cost , I've really warmed to "Backdraft"

dude's just a cheap, high PS small-based firespray that can roll (and not take nearly as many hits, but come on something has to give)

he won't be nearly as reliable as ace de jour in competitive play, but he offers a fun new playstyle on top of a limited but also fun dial with sloops (and hopefully pattern analyzer from Heroes, ie "perform action" before "check pilot stress" on red maneuver)

with VI and FCS at 30 points, he could be a decent pilot to bring to a game for the sake of variety without shooting yourself in the foot

He's what would happen if Scum Kath and an ATC had a baby.

Have we actually seen the ARC 170 dial? Yes it has been described to the point where we can probably assume it to be close.

Just wondering if I missed something.

nope, they did not reveal it.

Have we actually seen the ARC 170 dial? Yes it has been described to the point where we can probably assume it to be close.

Just wondering if I missed something.

nope, they did not reveal it.

But we pretty much already know what it is .

the Activation Attack is still incredible even with that dial. especially if you get to shoot in the combat phase as well.

It's not an Activation Attack. It's an attack the first time you lose a shield each round. The example in the article uses losing a shield from an asteroid as the trigger for that attack; that has a 50% chance of actually occurring. More often than not, you'll activate Quickdraw's ability AFTER being shot at by something else.

Also, once you're out of shields, the ability no longer kicks in.

the Activation Attack is still incredible even with that dial. especially if you get to shoot in the combat phase as well.

It's not an Activation Attack. It's an attack the first time you lose a shield each round. The example in the article uses losing a shield from an asteroid as the trigger for that attack; that has a 50% chance of actually occurring. More often than not, you'll activate Quickdraw's ability AFTER being shot at by something else.

Also, once you're out of shields, the ability no longer kicks in.

e-baffle, man

I'd go so far as to say e-baffle is pretty essential on her, otherwise you're looking at an exceptionally sh*tty Dengar

Is there some reason to assume that the ARC 170 will not have a 1-turn?

Is there some reason to assume that the ARC 170 will not have a 1-turn?

If they give that clunkly old piece of junk a 1-turn I will be quite upset. I know where you live FFG, don't make me come over there!

Is there some reason to assume that the ARC 170 will not have a 1-turn?

1 turns are for agile craft, arcs not a tie fighter it'll get a 2 turn at best.

See thats one thing i dont get. Why are 1hards considered a fast ship maneuver? To me it would be the opposite...

Even in space if you turn sharply the ship is still going to be going forward, and if you correct it the Gforces on you are going to be intense. A slow ship would compensate for that easily, a fast would be near blackout stress on the pilot.

...ugh stupid airforce past...why did i have to work on airplanes for 6 years so i know this gak lol