Just wanted to pass along my thought for the day. With all the negative opinions surrounding this game I find it amazing that both the core box and the adventurer's toolkit are already sold out on FFG, and most other places. This is frustrating to most people looking forward to getting their hands on this game but it also keeps me hopeful for great things to come and that this rpg will be around for a long time.

Does indeed seem like the doomsayers where wrong, for now. I still want to know if the steam keeps up, after all I think that there where a lot of people that sorta just wanted to see what the fuss was about.

supermanrcpd said:

The negative opinions are natural with the release of a new game, but what really count are the positive feedbacks after the release of the game. And so far the reviews were quite positive about the new WFRP.

UncleArkie said:

For the Doomsayers to be wrong, there would have to be something for them to be objectively wrong or right about. Since most of the Doomsayers were complaining about the elements in the game/departure into high fantasy, you can only really say that they are wrong if they change their minds.

Those who were saying the game wouldn't be a success (and I don't think I know anyone who said that, even those that hated the idea) would indeed be proven wrong.

I want to congratulate FFG on selling out. That is a huge boon to the industry. How many units were sold? 100,000? 50,000? 20,000? The bottom line is proof enough.

phobiandarkmoon said:

Ugh. Just read the pages of comments from the WFRP news articles, and the first five or six pages of this very forum.

Stuff like:

"Ok guys at FF, it is clear that people don't like your new game. They didn't like you made a toy out of it, they didn't like the way you didn't listen to their opinion, they didn't like that you, instad of making a nice, parallel, lite rpg based on warhammer (HEROQUEST WHERE ARE YOU?) you just, for what we can see, threw out all the work (mostly VERY GOOD WORK) that has been produced until now. We will never forgive you if you don't change your mind. You know that."

"My prediction is a critical fail. Paizo's guts, through Eric Mona, proves that supporting abandoned editions leads to rabid and loyal customers. Pathfinder is proving to be a huge success. And if you weren't aware of it, Paizo's playtests with the free, open, public Alpha and Beta editions were a resounding success... and GenCon is proving it it the lines.

FFG, like WotC before them, will regret this investment because they lost the base, and that will shy away a lot of the middle."

And this gem:

"This will be a great game for people who blast rap music out of their car (well, or would if they were old enough to drive) and can't formulate a proper sentence. I'm just ashamed that I was *ever* dumb enough to give this stupid company any of my money for any of their games."

Charming.

Necrozius said:

LOL. Nerdrage is.... disturbing.

I've been using the internet for quite a long time (decades, not years), but I am always a little taken aback by how anonymity brings out the worst in people, and I still stand amazed that people who evidently hate something spend so much of their time posting in forums and on threads about their hatred (usually with a liberal peppering of the latest form of "fanboi" along with intimations that anyone who likes it is stupid, a tweenager (which they themselves probably are), or some other pejoritive.

A lot of the pre-release backlash on the FFG forums has died down. STS remains a bastion for trolls who, by one's own admission, feels that since they've been a WFRP fan and on the STS forum for years, they can pop into any thread on WFRP V3 and call everyone stupid for liking/buying this new iteration. It blows my mind.

Meanwhile, a lot of open minded folks continue to try out the game, and good many of those seem to like it. For myself, I have found a LOT to love about the new iteration, and so I've been throwing my support by adding GM aids, writing adventures, helping people sort out the rules, etc.

I hope it does well, both for FFG and for the WFRP community (however fractured some people want you to believe it is).

I know that there is some actual nerd-rage out there, but much of the negativity that you read on the internet is part of a far more annoying trend of behavior...trolling.

Many of the "flamers" on the internet are after only one thing...your frustration and rage. Most of them actually don't shiv a git, they simply get their jollies watching others get themselves riled up.

This is especially true when the status quo for any realm of life is challenged. Gaming is merely a small player in this game. Check some politics forums...you'd think that we'd all be drinking Vodka and standing in bread lines by the way the trolls played the internet leading up to...and directly after the election. The funny thing is...those on the opposite side played right into the trolls' bait....hook, line, and sinker.

For those of you MMORPG'ers out there, the dynamic surrounds any challenger to World of Warcaft (the 800 lb. Gorilla named 'status quo'). Any new game that arrives is immediately torn to shreds by the legions of WoW fanbois.

So the next time you see a thread that begins with a less than logical statement regarding FFG and their brave, innovative attempt at WFRP...just ignore it. Let it die. It deserves no response. And most of all, it definitely doesn't deserve to make you raise one finger in anger to type a reply. Remember, when you reply...they win...every time.

I wouldn't say that it is surprising it sold out. For one, FFG is notorious for not printing enough copies to meet demand. Whether this is due to their manufactoring process, or b/c of their brand of marketing (see Nintendo with the Wii's marketing) I have no idea.

Secondly, even if something has a lot of negativity around it on the internet does not mean that is the norm. People are more prone to spewing their hate for things over the internet than saying how much they like something. This is why there are things like edition wars for board/card/roleplaying/minatures games, console wars, etc. People will always have their opinion and love to tell others why they are wrong. We all post here discussing the game, but you don't see a whole lot of posts about "OMG I want to have a baby with this game!" Sure, you will see positive reviews from time to time, but you are much more likely to see some troll pop in and say how much they can't stand the new edition. Being regular participants in this community it is understood that we do enjoy this game and there is really no need to continously say that we do, just being here is enough. That is why you get such a lopsided view of how many people like/dislike certain things. The haters are always louder.

HedgeWizard said:

Actually, I think you'll find that the sneering and hostility has come from both sides in the debate, whether here, rpg.net or STS.

Similarly, the ignorant negativity before the the game came out was mirrored by the equally ignorant positivity. Both sides have actively rubbed the other up the wrong way, and pretended that the other side was at fault. There's no point pretending otherwise.

Cheers

Sparrow

honestly I can tell you that what happened was exactly what happened with 4E. People reacted to the spoilers and teasers and weren't happy they weren't getting more of the same old system, so they began speculating on it. This of course leads to edition wars. Until the rules are really digested edition wars are just two sides yelling at each other about what the game "might" be, as if it's set in stone.

Now the rules are out and the verdict is in. Most people like it, a few do not. There's no point in changing their minds, it's just not their cup of tea. Then again, there's no point to troll the new system if you hate it, because you've already made up your mind and you are just out to vent or incite.

There's never been a right and wrong in an edition war, despite what people make it out to be. There's just personal preference.

HedgeWizard said:

I didn't mean to suggest there wasn't trolling or negative behavior on both sides. It's all died down over here to a relatively sane amount. Meanwhile, people are still going at it on STS. But where I continue to see the bulk of nasty things being said is from the folks calling buyers of the new edition "sheeple" "dumb" "ignorant" "Fanbois" (still not sure why they adopted that spelling, but whatever).

I was fairly skeptical throughout the leadup, but I was always willing to listen and give the benefit of the doubt until I tried the system. I was regularly branded any of the above. Good times.

HedgeWizard said:

StS is a site for critical discussion, not cheerleading. It's a site where products are both slagged and praised, and posters tend to be very critical of corporate greed and the consumers who feed it. I'm not saying this is necessarily so in FFG's case, but surely you can understand how some people might look at the v3 development model with a certain degree of cynicism?

Herr Arnulfe said:

Well I asked a pointed question about the form description for V3 being called a "boardgame" and was instantly accused of being a fanboi. The operator there did listen to people's criticism of such a description and changed it, which was indeed very much appreciated. Still is was very clear to see I stumbled across a site with 2nd edition fans defending their turf.

Being called a fanboi right out of the gate, however, did little to make me think it was a critical discussion site. Granted since then, I've had some very good discussions there with both pro and anti - v3 players over at STS and they all seem like basically good folk.

As for feeding corporate greed, well let's just say I'm very glad FFG is doing the game instead of other parties, same goes for Blood Bowl Online.

Herr Arnulfe said:

Of course, but you and I both know that's not what I was referring to. STS is hardly the bastion of objective criticism when you have people like crimsontree is popping into threads to say "FFG are fleecing the fans with the new & overpriced WFRP. I wonder how long it will take the fanbois of WFRP3 to wake up to this fact. They've been sold a pooch!" That adds little to the discourse, nor is that critical discussion. Cheerleading, however that is defined, isn't any more productive. Believe me, I was VERY skeptical about the new edition, but instead of being cynical, I was willing to see what it was about.

I've been reading STS for something like 6 or 7 years now, and I know you are member of many WFRP communities. But your fair-handed presence and involvement isn't copied by all members, here or otherwise. Anyway, this is a bit of topic, and I'd hate for it devolve into more a rant.

UncleArkie said:

Yeah, I'm hoping WFRP3 has a better and longer life than Warhammer Online (which I tried only because it was Warhammer, but went back to pen and paper rpging fairly quickly).

can someone post a link to this STS site thingy...i googled it but couldn't find it.

HedgeWizard said:

HedgeWizard said:

Yes the sales do indicate a huge interest and I for one am glad to see it, it is a great game. I love how jaded we have all become over the issue of corperate greed when we are not really looking at the facts about that greed itself. FFG is NOT big Oil or Microsoft or American Bell or Comcast or an Energy Company. They are a meager game company with a meager share of an otherwise saturated market. They are NOT Wizards of the Coast. I mean 3.5 came out with half the bitching of corperate modelling that I have heard thrown around about this game. If FFG are trying to get so many people to buy the game and buy every suppliment it is a smart change for an otherwise dead market. It will prove that a market does exist for these products, they have simply been mismanaged for years. All the bitchers about this model I am sure are willing to choke cash down MMORPG with their monthly fees or GW miniatures with a buy in minimum of at least 500 bucks these days, buy droves of electronic gadgets, computer updates, gear, clothes, overpriced imported alcohol, cigarettes. Why are you so ready to feed every other big corperation your money without thinking twice about it, then turn around and ***** about a small company trying to stay in business and make great products that are actually worth the money. I do not know. I am at a loss.

With that off my chest, obviously FFG is seeing this game going places if they were willing to pony up that they intend to make four new suppliments soon. Obviously, support for the game will be coming in waves; we will lose some, we will gain some, but all and all it will continue to go strongly if this game continues to grow well.

FFG has a history of great products and if they support this game like they do Arkham and Dark Heresy, I cannot wait to see what comes of it. Anyway, back to my waiting for my copy of the Adventurers Toolkit to arrive.

Sinister said:

Sorry to nitpick, but the v3 forum description called it a "boardgame-RPG hybrid", presumably due to the boardgame-like components. If someone called you a fanboy, that was a mild personal attack and so it was probably moderated as such.

I mainly wanted to defend StS, since I have over 1,000 posts there and Hedge Wizard's comment about the site seemed to indicate a lack of familiarity with the forum culture.

Re: corporate greed, the accusations aren't unique to FFG. GR/BI's early v2 releases were criticised on StS for being "churned out", and many people felt they were deliberately incomplete to necessitate supplements. It's somwehat common during these types of rants for people to make generalized comments about company fanboys. If you enjoy the community, you learn to live with it.

P.S. Bloodbowl Online rocks! I love the fact that you pay a $40 one-time payment and receive free updates and server access. That's the sort of corporate behaviour that makes me want to give them more of my money.

Herr Arnulfe said:

It's amazing. Kudos to cyanide.

supermanrcpd said:

yeah all this shows is that the game is kicking butt and taking names! i love the game and I have to wait for my guys to get there kits lol....i would be upset but i love it!! the game is great!!

Necrozius said:

This guy is a tool, to be honest

I really hope that this game is a huge success because the chances to see more RPG's in this "new style" are much better, especially for a WH40K-Space Marine RPG (please Horus Heresy-Universe like the new boardgame).

Frank6 said:

You know, before I was kind of "meh" about the idea of a space marine RPG - but I had never considered it being during the horus heresy. That would kind of kick ass methinks. I am behind this idea