Figured it was only a matter of time.

I do like Thrawn, but rereading the trilogy recently, even Zahn tended to make him borderline omniscient from time to time. He's a neat character, but it's hard to suspend disbelief when he can accurately deduce certain things at a glance despite significant variables.

in that respect he's like Patrick Jane from the TV Shows "the mentalist" which I always took to be over the top writing until I saw a different mentalist on america's got talent making seemingly impossible predictions correctly

So where are those custom Thrawn nemesis stats at? Come on guys, I know you got them!

New talent:

Highly observant: Once per session may use a triumph on any knowledge check to deduce an unknowable fact from minor observable details on hand.

Signature Ability: How could you possibly even know that?!?

Once per session spend two destiny points and make any knowledge check. If successful all players may upgrade all checks for the duration of the encounter and know the status, equipment, plans, motivations, and life goals of all npcs present as well as two who are not.

They already have that signature ability: is called Insightful Revelation.

In fact, while what little I know of Thrawn cones from what people have said on these forums that I've read, it seems both of the Colonist signature abilities would fit him well.

Which is odd, because he's clearly a Commander. Maybe he's a custom Commander who has Insightful Revelation and Unmatched Authority as his available signature abilities?

They already have that signature ability: is called Insightful Revelation.

In fact, while what little I know of Thrawn cones from what people have said on these forums that I've read, it seems both of the Colonist signature abilities would fit him well.

Which is odd, because he's clearly a Commander. Maybe he's a custom Commander who has Insightful Revelation and Unmatched Authority as his available signature abilities?

he's an NPC, the GM just gives him whatever talents and signature abilities are appropriate to how they want to portray him... but if you did want to build a PC like him, I think him starting as a diplomat analyst (valuable facts, knowledge specialization, know it all, thorough assessment, stroke of genius, researcher, improved researcher) with the unmatched insight signature ability would be good and then have him cross spec into commander strategist. After strategist come back to diplomat propagandist... well rounded, confidence, bad press, informant, in the know, improved in the know). And personally, I would let him have the benefit of that brain cybernetic implant from the core book without him actually having a device in his head... you could justify it by saying he's a clone of the original thrawn and has "flash programming" in an intersect (look up the tv show, chuck) fashion.

But if you want him to be a colonist, then go scholar, but I think analyst is a better fit.

Even as a Non-Player Character, his stat block would be huge. I haven't included every possible talent the character would have if translated into a character, and I haven't given him any weapons, armor, or gear, but this might give you a general idea of how big a stat block he might have.

(And if you're wonder why his soak is 5 without any armor and only 2 Brawn, or why he has defense, it's just plot protection. *chuckles*)

Even as a Non-Player Character, his stat block would be huge. I haven't included every possible talent the character would have if translated into a character, and I haven't given him any weapons, armor, or gear, but this might give you a general idea of how big a stat block he might have.

(And if you're wonder why his soak is 5 without any armor and only 2 Brawn, or why he has defense, it's just plot protection. *chuckles*)

i thought you were trying to impress us with size... it's about half the minimum I was expecting from a npc thrawn... and you were using a large font... and in terms of skills there's the obvious omissions of knowledge warfare and lore among others... or maybe you were trying to impress us with how SMALL a stat block you could make for Thrawn?

Depends which game you use as knowledge (Galactic Warfare) only appears in Age of Rebellion. If you ask me Rebels could fall under Edge or Age to be honest. To be honest I thought it was a reasonable stab at Thrawn.

i thought you were trying to impress us with size... it's about half the minimum I was expecting from a npc thrawn... and you were using a large font... and in terms of skills there's the obvious omissions of knowledge warfare and lore among others... or maybe you were trying to impress us with how SMALL a stat block you could make for Thrawn?

Yeah... I had no idea the image would end up so huge. *chuckles*

And I got to the point where I felt like I should just stop giving him more talents and skills, so while it's a decent first stab at him, it's not a complete Thrawn as written. The problem is that Thrawn as written is just too good to be used as an NPC in any campaign where he might show up as an antagonist, at least until much later in the PCs' careers. There are a couple more skills he should have, and at least half a dozen more talents that make sense for him.

Okay... I updated the stat block, shrunk it down a little, used a smaller font, and added a couple things. The upgraded Thrawn received Knowledge - Warfare, Knowledge - Xenology, and Knowledge - Underworld, as well as two new custom talent/abilities.

Hmm.. Not sure I agree with his defenses, soak, or wounds. The man was killed by a single Noghri, not a hail of blaster fire.

Hmm.. Not sure I agree with his defenses, soak, or wounds. The man was killed by a single Noghri, not a hail of blaster fire.

Well... I was going off a very vague memory of Thrawn. I read those stories too long ago to recall clearly.

All opinions about Thrawn aside: guys, that trailer for Season 3 of Rebels is positively awesome.

I still haven't watched any of the series, because I got stuck on not liking the Clone Wars series. I know Rebels is a different beast and has much better plotting and character development, but...wow. That trailer. Incredible stuff. Definitely going to check it out now.

*submits his official "late to the party" card for registry*

All opinions about Thrawn aside: guys, that trailer for Season 3 of Rebels is positively awesome.

I still haven't watched any of the series, because I got stuck on not liking the Clone Wars series. I know Rebels is a different beast and has much better plotting and character development, but...wow. That trailer. Incredible stuff. Definitely going to check it out now.

*submits his official "late to the party" card for registry*

Absolutely agreed. Even my wife is excited for this season, and she's not that big a Star Wars fan.

I never understand the amazement at the appearance of a character from the EU. They said they would freely cherry pick whatever they wanted all along when the purge occurred. They just wanted the chronology/timeline/history sacked from the EU mostly as they were going to be doing their own stuff. The whole canon vs not canon hysteria baffles me. Even Lucas said the only thing that was ever truly gospel and not subject to being gutted was what he put down.

My opinion of why it is important to me:

Nearly 2 decades went by in between Return of the Jedi and the Phantom Menace and during that time a great group of writers, Timothy Zahn being one of them, provided us real fans with additional content about a galaxy that we loved. I'm not sure if you're old enough to remember but there was a long period where Lucas didn't really do anything with the first trilogy and had seemingly washed his hands of the universe. From my standpoint it was the fans that kept the Star Wars universe alive, and these writers provided us with a tangible means to stay connected. There were many great books written that were 'cannon' to us before Disney stepped in, and while I don't have any issues with the direction they are taking Star Wars, it would be silly to forget and neglect all of the material that happened in the interim that kept Star Wars alive.

Thrawn broke the traditional role of what the Empire classically delivered as a protagonist and I was surprised at how well I liked how he was written. I am personally am glad that he has been re-introduced to canon, it gives me comfort to know that they did their homework and are willing to listen to fans. It gives us nerds hope that other iconic EU characters may also see the light of day.

And on top of all of that I am more pleased with Grand Admiral Thrawn being brought back than I am of a cut in half Sith apprentice named Maul and will likely enjoy it more than reintroducing carbon copy inquisitors with saber-copters.

Never said it couldn't matter to people, just said Disney's doing exactly what they said they'd do. Lucas didn't wash his hands of anything and the reason the IP survived is because he greenlit the EU material. None of that was done without his blessing.

I'll also ignore your snob comment about being a 'real fan'.

Re. Thrawn, and Canon vs. Legends:

I'm most interested in this for how it might impact his (potential) appearance in the First Order and the new films. Assuming he is alive and kicking up until the new films, that is. If they are retconning his death until before the Return of the Jedi, that will be a bit deflating to his true fans. Will any death but a Grand Climax appease his fans? He was the most worthy adversary of the ABY Legends all the way up to the Yuuzhan Vong.

Re. Thrawn, and Canon vs. Legends:

I'm most interested in this for how it might impact his (potential) appearance in the First Order and the new films. Assuming he is alive and kicking up until the new films, that is. If they are retconning his death until before the Return of the Jedi, that will be a bit deflating to his true fans. Will any death but a Grand Climax appease his fans? He was the most worthy adversary of the ABY Legends all the way up to the Yuuzhan Vong.

Well they are probably going to have to do something to get him out of the way eventually.

You can't have Thrawn running around in ANH anymore than you can have Ezra, Kanan and Ahsoka. Otherwise you end up with the old "why didn't Thrawn just show up and do X."

I mean, there's lots of ways to both temporary and permanently dispose of characters, but it's gonna have to happen either way. I'm actually kinda interested in seeing where this all goes as the most obvious solution to these characters is also a rather dark one....

Re. Thrawn, and Canon vs. Legends:

I'm most interested in this for how it might impact his (potential) appearance in the First Order and the new films. Assuming he is alive and kicking up until the new films, that is. If they are retconning his death until before the Return of the Jedi, that will be a bit deflating to his true fans. Will any death but a Grand Climax appease his fans? He was the most worthy adversary of the ABY Legends all the way up to the Yuuzhan Vong.

Well they are probably going to have to do something to get him out of the way eventually.

You can't have Thrawn running around in ANH anymore than you can have Ezra, Kanan and Ahsoka. Otherwise you end up with the old "why didn't Thrawn just show up and do X."

I mean, there's lots of ways to both temporary and permanently dispose of characters, but it's gonna have to happen either way. I'm actually kinda interested in seeing where this all goes as the most obvious solution to these characters is also a rather dark one....

It IS a large galaxy, thankfully, so the darkest of options doesn't necessarily have to occur to clear the field for ANH. Our band of Rebels could easily be fighting somewhere else in the galaxy while the first DS goes kaboom.

As for Thrawn, well, again, there are plenty of targets that would require a more subtle touch than the giant superlaser. As another thought, in the EU Thrawn gets sent to the Unknown Regions to clean them up shortly before Hoth; that'd get him out of the way, and heck, maybe the First Order picked up where he left off. That'd tie up that loose end nicely.

My only disappointment with this whole thing is giving Chiss (or at least thrawn) pupils. I think the "smoldering coals" look of Chiss is much more interesting.

I think they want to differentiate from the blue alien with red eyes look of Cad Bane. I was initially thrown too, but it looks fine in the final product.

No Mara Jade in Rebels doesn't mean no Mara Jade ever.

Pretty much.

Filoni's answer is based upon the predication that Mara Jade as a character wouldn't work for the story that he's angling to tell in Rebels. And as excited as most folks are for Thrawn's return to canon, I get the feeling that if it didn't work for the story, then Filoni wouldn't have brought Thrawn back, and instead would have created some new villain to be the major threat to the crew of the Ghost this season.

Pretty much. Besides, she'd be too young. Remember, Mara is about the same age as Luke, which means she'd be a young teenager, at the most, Ezra's age. She'd still be in training, not a full Emperor's Hand yet.

My only disappointment with this whole thing is giving Chiss (or at least thrawn) pupils. I think the "smoldering coals" look of Chiss is much more interesting.

I think they want to differentiate from the blue alien with red eyes look of Cad Bane. I was initially thrown too, but it looks fine in the final product.

I had not considered that. That makes a lot of sense.

Re. Thrawn, and Canon vs. Legends:

I'm most interested in this for how it might impact his (potential) appearance in the First Order and the new films. Assuming he is alive and kicking up until the new films, that is. If they are retconning his death until before the Return of the Jedi, that will be a bit deflating to his true fans. Will any death but a Grand Climax appease his fans? He was the most worthy adversary of the ABY Legends all the way up to the Yuuzhan Vong.

Provided they don't change his personality drastically I highly doubt he would have joined the First Order.

Re. Thrawn, and Canon vs. Legends:

I'm most interested in this for how it might impact his (potential) appearance in the First Order and the new films. Assuming he is alive and kicking up until the new films, that is. If they are retconning his death until before the Return of the Jedi, that will be a bit deflating to his true fans. Will any death but a Grand Climax appease his fans? He was the most worthy adversary of the ABY Legends all the way up to the Yuuzhan Vong.

Well they are probably going to have to do something to get him out of the way eventually.

You can't have Thrawn running around in ANH anymore than you can have Ezra, Kanan and Ahsoka. Otherwise you end up with the old "why didn't Thrawn just show up and do X."

I mean, there's lots of ways to both temporary and permanently dispose of characters, but it's gonna have to happen either way. I'm actually kinda interested in seeing where this all goes as the most obvious solution to these characters is also a rather dark one....

It IS a large galaxy, thankfully, so the darkest of options doesn't necessarily have to occur to clear the field for ANH. Our band of Rebels could easily be fighting somewhere else in the galaxy while the first DS goes kaboom.

As for Thrawn, well, again, there are plenty of targets that would require a more subtle touch than the giant superlaser. As another thought, in the EU Thrawn gets sent to the Unknown Regions to clean them up shortly before Hoth; that'd get him out of the way, and heck, maybe the First Order picked up where he left off. That'd tie up that loose end nicely.

He's probably not going to succeed in destroying the protagonists of the show, and the Empire & its Emperor are not known to be big fans of failure. So he very well could be in Rebels for a season, then our heroes manage to slip away (because the Force, and Thrawn has no anti-Force MacGuffin), and he gets sent off to the Omaha office Unknown Regions as punishment for the failure.

Re. Thrawn, and Canon vs. Legends:

I'm most interested in this for how it might impact his (potential) appearance in the First Order and the new films. Assuming he is alive and kicking up until the new films, that is. If they are retconning his death until before the Return of the Jedi, that will be a bit deflating to his true fans. Will any death but a Grand Climax appease his fans? He was the most worthy adversary of the ABY Legends all the way up to the Yuuzhan Vong.

Provided they don't change his personality drastically I highly doubt he would have joined the First Order.

Howith is the first order all that different from the new order (empire of the OT)?

He's probably not going to succeed in destroying the protagonists of the show, and the Empire & its Emperor are not known to be big fans of failure. So he very well could be in Rebels for a season, then our heroes manage to slip away (because the Force, and Thrawn has no anti-Force MacGuffin), and he gets sent off to the Omaha office Unknown Regions as punishment for the failure.

I actually think there's a decent chance that he does succeed in taking out the protagonists of the show. I think it'd be a fitting ending to have them fall to such a character. And there were all those rumors about Season Three being the final one for the show...