I'd love to use bombs more, but the dedicated bomb carriers all leave something to be desired. There's a lot of ships with throwaway torpedo slots though that I'd love to throw a bomb on.

Can you foresee any major problems if the Bomb Loadout upgrade wasn't restricted to just Y-Wings?

Protectorate Starfighter

I've done quite well with a y-wing with bombs. Proton bombs and proxy mines (since bomb loadout isn't limited), extra munitions (since it's a modification for the campaign). Gives me 4 bombs to drop in a given mission. I just wish I could take scum upgrades for the genius droid and emon azzameen's ability. On the other hand, I plan to pick up sabine's ability as soon as I hit PS5 and have the xp. Barrel roll or boost then drop a before maneuver bomb? Yes please!

I'm also thinking about cheating to take a k-wing as a bomber so I can have sabine crew for an extra bomb and extra damage.

What would be the problem with the Protectorate Fighter?

The Y-Wing's definitely a capable bomber, I'm just thinking that it would be fun to have bomb access on some ships that are not dedicated bombers.

What would be the problem with the Protectorate Fighter?

The Y-Wing's definitely a capable bomber, I'm just thinking that it would be fun to have bomb access on some ships that are not dedicated bombers.

B wing with Sabine crew and extra munitions

My y wing friend is upgrading to this combo shortly (I'm running a prockets loaded a wing with etahn shortly)

The problem arises when half the ships in the game suddenly gain a free ability. It may not necessarily be unbalanced, but you're supposed to pay for your upgrade OPTIONS, not just the upgrade. If the restriction were something like "You may only equip this card if your hull value is 4 or higher" it would be thematically and game-wise balanced; bigger ships are more capable of carrying bombs, and you significantly decrease the number of ships that can take it.

. Proton bombs and proxy mines (since bomb loadout isn't limited), extra munitions (since it's a modification for the campaign).

is Bomb Loadout not being limited something specific to HoTAC ?

Cos it is limited

Stick with the Ywing for bombs, unless you decide to take a Bwing, and Sabine Crew...then she can give you a bomb and you can take extra munitions to drop 2 of the same bomb (on different turns), increase their damage well sort of using her ability, and also fire 4 torpedoes-either 2 of the same type and 2 different, or just all the same type.

Also if you want to be really good at dropping bombs on the Ywing, look at Sabine Wren- the attack shuttle pilot's ability- lets you boost or barrel before you maneuver--so which also is at the same time as when bombs are supposed to drop, so she basically lets you drop a bomb then and there, or do one of the two actions and drop one. I've been doing that for the past couple months during our weekly campaign night, to GREAT effectiveness!

Basically you have a couple great options for bombs while still not changing anything in HOTAC.

...yes, Y-Wings are fine bombers. Not looking for a dedicated bomber though.

Mechanically, would it be unbalanced to give fighter/interceptor types a bomb instead of a torpedo?

Absolutely. Interceptor-type ships in X-wing nearly all have a PS 9 ace, so giviing them access to a bomb and total knowledge of what the field is going to be like before they drop it can make them even more powerful. Imagine Soontir Fel with proton Bombs, or whisper with connor nets - they would be unbeatable... or close to it.

I could see it being viable if they had to lose something in return, perhaps one of the following:

1.

Bomb Cache ( modification, limited ), 0 Points.

Your upgrade bar gains 1 [bomb] icon. For each bomb you have equipped, decrease your agility by one.

2.

Tractor Pro ( title, agility 3+ craft only ), 1 Point

Your upgrade bar gains 1 [bomb] icon. In each turn where you drop a bomb, you may not perform an attack.

1. stops aces from getting a free boon by making them incredibly vulnerable during the first round of fire (AGI 2 Soontir is pathetic on defense)

2. Gives a wide (but not unlimited) range of craft access to a bomb, but at great tactical cost. Giving it a real point cost makes it much harder to justify on something like a TIE Defender in comparison to Twin Ion Engines Mk II, for instance.

These cards could add to the wealth of potions without unbalancing the game, whereas straight-up modifying the rules to allow interceptors to carry bombs would be ridiculous, and would make 0 thematic sense.

In this instance Bomb Cache's theme is that the ship has a bulky container of mines strapped to it, decreasing its agility. Once it drops the extra weight, it returns to normal performance. Tractor Pro 's theme is that the ship requires the use of a tractor beam to bring the bomb carefully out of its hold, requiring the pilot's full attention.

The straight up answer yes, it is unbalanced, but it could eventually be balanced...

Astech,I'm curious if you realie that we are talking about a co-operative campaign when you bring up Whisper and soontir Fel in your example. But you point still stands, and I agree with it, interceptor craft dont need bomb dropping capapbilites even in Heroes of the Aturi Cluster.

...yes, Y-Wings are fine bombers. Not looking for a dedicated bomber though.

Mechanically, would it be unbalanced to give fighter/interceptor types a bomb instead of a torpedo?

Again Ulf Beorstruk, look at what I said about Sabine Wren attack shuttle's pilot abity if you want more nameiverability with dropping a bomb. Or even Jake Farrell for more maneuverability after youve dropped the bomb (or if you want to drop conner nets and mines with Push the Limit).

You can do wonders of maneuvering in a Ywing in the cmapaign with the right pilot abilities, and I do it all the time in a ywin! While dropping bombs on hapless enemies. Oh and I benefit from being able to take and regen damage unlike most Awing builds (the only regen they can get is Miranda- and then they roll 1 Attack die that round, hahah, worthless.

. Proton bombs and proxy mines (since bomb loadout isn't limited), extra munitions (since it's a modification for the campaign).

is Bomb Loadout not being limited something specific to HoTAC ?

Cos it is limited

Yah, the campaign lets yiou use 2 if you want

. Proton bombs and proxy mines (since bomb loadout isn't limited), extra munitions (since it's a modification for the campaign).

is Bomb Loadout not being limited something specific to HoTAC ?

Cos it is limited

You can easily get around it with extra munitions. Although that will start to make the Y-wing a bit expensive.

. Proton bombs and proxy mines (since bomb loadout isn't limited), extra munitions (since it's a modification for the campaign).

is Bomb Loadout not being limited something specific to HoTAC ?

Cos it is limited

You can easily get around it with extra munitions. Although that will start to make the Y-wing a bit expensive.

Still talking about heroes of the aturi cluster. Who cares if your ywing gets expensive. EVERY ship gets expensive. Thats kind of the point

For only 2 points and a modification slot (in Hotac) it is totally worth it to have Extra Munitions on a Y-wing or B-wng!!!!

Hell it is worth it even on an Xwing or Awing...though you just have only 2 shots. Not the possible 4 on a Ywing or Bwing, or 6 if you take Sabine in the Bwing. Also not to menton the Bwing and Ywing allow multiple ordnance options in the campaign, so if you want two different types of torps or bombs or one of each, you can have munitions too.

Astech,I'm curious if you realie that we are talking about a co-operative campaign when you bring up Whisper and soontir Fel in your example.

I was aware, and I believe the point is valid even so; by allowing a new bomb loadout card on almost anything, this would change the possible upgrades to a TIE Phantom or Interceptor (on the little sheets used to upgrade pilots, HotAC pilots will know what I'm talking about). So the game designers woul most likely work in some bombs into High level aces.

Extra munitions is almost always worth it, unless you desperately need that third stealth device. B-wings with Nera Dantels power and Fire Control System benefit the most of all; gaining 4 rounds of what is essentially a high-yield turret.

I guess I just don't see how the bomb slot is so much more useful than the torpedo slot you're losing to get it. I understand that access to a wider range of options is theoretically worth more points, but given that you're paying for those alternate options by losing the objectively more useful torpedo upgrade slot I don't see how it is unbalanced. It would seem that FFG saw it the same in how they costed the actual upgrade.

As for Soontir and Whisper, they don't have torpedo slots so its really not relevant. If your point is that high PS, high maneuverability arc-dodge type ships would make bombs too powerful, they already have a very high premium on actions, and while they could make good use out of bombs, surely they also get more use out of torpedos by being able to target lock last. Also, there are already aces with the ability to take bombs, and they're hardly groundbreaking.

Thematically, if you're worried about that, a torpedo is just a bigger (by damage potential) bomb with a self-propulsion mechanism added on. It also needs a launcher, a more sophisticated piece of equipment than a bomb bay. I don't think stripping that out for a bomb would make a ship heavier or less maneuverable.

We tried it out in some casual games today, and it definitely didn't come off as broken. A couple X-Wings tried it out, and it was fine. Opened a new tactical choice for them. The big surprise was someone using a bunch of the torpedo M-3As with bombs instead, and suddenly they were actually useful. Not great, they didn't win, but a lot of small, quick bombers was an entirely new thing to deal with.

Haven't tried it with HotAC yet, not sure how it will work with Extra Munitions being available as a mod, but given the odds you face in that I'm not expecting it to be too strong.

The torpedo slot is not 'objectively more usefull.' It is more useful only in certain situations. In HotAC I'd take a proton bomb over advanced proton torpedoes any day of the week. The ability to do free splash damage without paying a single action is what would make them so lethal on high PS aces, even in HotAC. The y-wing can take it because its dial is horrible, but anything with a tad more maneuverability will become unbalanced unless its an already terrible ship (Ulf Beorstruk pointed this out above with the M3-A interceptor, which is arguably the least used ship in the game). The problem with applying it to ships that have already been "patched" like the x-wing or b-wing is that it creates some extreme cases where it just doesn't make sense. Consider the following HotAC build:

B-wing, PS 4.

Intelligence Agent (1)

Cluster Mines (4)

Proton Bombs (5)

Extra Munitions (2)

Engine Upgrade (4)

Advanced Sensors (3)

Push The Limit (6) - double point cost for campaign

Total: 40 Experience points - this can be reached after 4 successful missions quite easily.

This gives you a bomber that moves after all generic ships, has the highest reactive movement potential in the game (due to barrel roll, boost, advanced sensors and Intelligence agent combo), and doesn't sacrifice any of its firepower to gain the ability to deal 4 critical hits before combat starts. In HotAC, ships fly in swarms of 4 (assuming you're playing with 6 players) and the B-wing build above can feasibly take all four down in just 2 turns with some well-placed bombs. Keep in mind that advanced sensors triggers before you drop a proton bomb. If you manage to somehow miss your bombs 4 times in row, you're still left with a reasonable mid-game ship with powerful maneuvers.

The "aces" that can take bombs are incapable of using them to their full effectiveness. PS 9+ is essentially to outmaneuver enemy aces, and a bomb slot is also critical. If you take Miranda Doni, she's too costly to be worth it, especially with TLT also equipped. Boba Fett (imperial or scum) really has other priorities, and costs too much for a single bomb to be worth it. Horton Salm with VI (using R2-D6 to gain the EPT slot) is again a poor choice due to a total lack of maneuverability. I believe that's all the "aces" that can equip bombs aside from Tomax Bren in the bomber, but he's so fragile as to be shot down before making range 1 to drop a bomb in the first place, so he's hardly a wise investment in 7 pt of bombs (proton bomb + extra munitions).

The real problem arises in E-wings . Their torpedo slot is almost universally ignored, but a PS 10 Corran Horn that can drop an Ion bomb to get Soontir Fel off of is tail is definitely worth the 2 points if you have them to spare.

In summary: The original bomb load out card was designed to partially fix the Y-wing, because it was broken. Applying a card that boosts a ship's options and effective firepower (meaning damage per turn) to a wide range of ships is a good way to break the game. That said, I would love to try it out during my next local campaign, just to have some fun with it.

Advanced sensor bewing isnt any more maneuverable than a sabine piloted ywing (same could applyt to a bwing of course). You dont need advanced sensors when you can just take a pilot ability that lets you barrel roll or boost before your maneuver. And at the cost of some more cp you can have wngine and vectored thrusters on the ywing o be able to ptl into whichever you didnt do with the ability

Advanced sensor bewing isnt any more maneuverable than a sabine piloted ywing (same could applyt to a bwing of course). You dont need advanced sensors when you can just take a pilot ability that lets you barrel roll or boost before your maneuver. And at the cost of some more cp you can have wngine and vectored thrusters on the ywing o be able to ptl into whichever you didnt do with the ability

....or take Jake Farrell so you can focus, and still get to use Sabine next turn- since you cant use her ability if she is stressed (free action). The Ywing with both of those pilot abilities becomes insanely good at repositioning!

Advanced sensor bewing isnt any more maneuverable than a sabine piloted ywing (same could applyt to a bwing of course). You dont need advanced sensors when you can just take a pilot ability that lets you barrel roll or boost before your maneuver. And at the cost of some more cp you can have wngine and vectored thrusters on the ywing o be able to ptl into whichever you didnt do with the ability

....or take Jake Farrell so you can focus, and still get to use Sabine next turn- since you cant use her ability if she is stressed (free action). The Ywing with both of those pilot abilities becomes insanely good at repositioning!

If you do a green maneuver you dont end up stressed anyway

M-3A bombers are really fun.

I can see the concern about aces like Corran. We had someone try it out with Poe to similar effect. In our experience though, Imp Aces usually have the advantage over Rebel Aces, so this tips the scale back the other way a bit. It's certainly not unbeatable though, unless the Imp player insisted on flying exactly the same way they would have if the Rebels didn't have bombs.

I think with the Rebels, you're often paying for upgrades slots that you're not going to use in the torpedo, so this option works out nicely. Again though, thats just for our group, and your mileage may vary if you find the Rebels dominant already.

I appreciate the back and forth on this, its great to test the boundaries of an idea.

In Response to VanderLegion and Knavelead: By using advanced sensors and PTL, you gain access to the extreme positioning capabilities while still at PS 4 in HotAC, whereas by using Sabine you have to be at least PS 5, and for Jake its PS 7. That makes it much more of a late-campaign ship. my main point wwas that by allowing so many bombs from the start you're breaking the campaign immediately , not just when you get to higher levels, and the broken combinations are countered by more powerful enemies.

In Response to Ulf Beorstruk: Yes, I can definitely see how Poe and Corran would be a threat with powerful bombs. Imperial aces are supposed to be superior at maneuvering and in pilot skill; that's what keeps them alive. Yes, this is definitely a good topic.

Advanced sensor bewing isnt any more maneuverable than a sabine piloted ywing (same could applyt to a bwing of course). You dont need advanced sensors when you can just take a pilot ability that lets you barrel roll or boost before your maneuver. And at the cost of some more cp you can have wngine and vectored thrusters on the ywing o be able to ptl into whichever you didnt do with the ability

....or take Jake Farrell so you can focus, and still get to use Sabine next turn- since you cant use her ability if she is stressed (free action). The Ywing with both of those pilot abilities becomes insanely good at repositioning!

If you do a green maneuver you dont end up stressed anyway

So yes and no. So PTL gives you a stress on turn 1, after barreling and boosting or just one and another action.

And if you have advanced sensors you can do said things before your maneiver which will get rid of stress. So on turn 2 you can do 2 more actions and possibly a green to allow you to do it again the next turn.

But you only did 2 actions and move total, and you have to lock yourself into green moves (only 2 on a ywing)...and both or at least one is a repostioioning one, so means only 1 can be a dice mod one.

In my scenario- where you have Sabine and Jake Farrell (yes Astec it is higher level- but at that pont it isnt reall broken), you can do many actions (about 4 plus droppng a bomb for a non-action maneuver).

So you start with Sabine, (then you can drop your bomb), or drop it before using Sabine, and then Sabine) and then if you wish since Sabien is an action you can PTL then and there- and take another action. then you do your move (if you are doing PTL then you need to do green, so only 2 on a Ywing), and then you can do your actual action. If any of those actions was a focus then you can pop Jake Farrell too. So a possible 4 actions (two repositions, a focus, and a TL or something: Marksmanship, expose, etc,- likely a TL though).