A) From the corner of the attacker's plastic base

B) From the edge of the attacker's printed arc

I for one normally use method B.

However, reading the rules reference section on measuring range seems to point to method A.

To measure range between two ships, place the range ruler over the point of the first ship that is closest to the second ship, then point the other end of the ruler toward the point of the second ship’s base that is closest to the first base. The range is the band of the range ruler that falls over the closest point of the second ship.

When measuring range for an attack, the attacker measures to the closest point of the target ship that is inside the attacker’s firing arc.

The first paragraph says to use closest point to closest point (aka, base corner to base corner). The second paragraph only mentions that you measure to the closest point of the target ship that is in arc - it makes no mention of using a point on the attacker's base that is in arc.

Thoughts?

For an arc-locked shot you measure distance in arc. Otherwise you measure from the base corner.

For an arc-locked shot you measure distance in arc. Otherwise you measure from the base corner.

So option B.

Playing devils advocate here... Why? What rules excerpt justifies this?

Neither A nor B a good generic answer. The measuring point depends on the relative poisitions of the two ships. Just find the shortest line between the attacker and defender which is inside the firing arc.

Its technically both A and B

It IS closest point to closest point, but unless its a turret it also has to be in your arc. For instance if a turreted ship has range1 on a weirdly turned ship nearby, the weirdly turned ship can easily not have range1 because in his arc he only clips the back edge of a large base, which is further than range1.

Neither A nor B a good generic answer. The measuring point depends on the relative poisitions of the two ships. Just find the shortest line between the attacker and defender which is inside the firing arc.

Of course... I thought the placement of the ships in my scenario was obvious...

Here's an image.

Its technically both A and B

It IS closest point to closest point, but unless its a turret it also has to be in your arc. For instance if a turreted ship has range1 on a weirdly turned ship nearby, the weirdly turned ship can easily not have range1 because in his arc he only clips the back edge of a large base, which is further than range1.

My question is as follows :

Where in the rules does it state that the "measuring point" on the attacker's ship has to be in arc?

The rules state that the "measuring point" on the defender is the closest point in arc (and that's obvious). However, the rules make no similar mention for the attacker.

The rules state that the "measuring point" on the defender is the closest point in arc (and that's obvious). However, the rules make no similar mention for the attacker.

"To measure range between two ships, place the range ruler over the point of the first ship that is closest to the second ship, then point the other end of the ruler toward the point of the second ship’s base that is closest to the first base."

"When measuring range for an attack, the attacker measures to the closest point of the target ship that is inside the attacker’s firing arc."

(Rules Reference, p16)

I would interpret this as measurements being from the nearest point of the attacker to the nearest point of the defender that is in arc, even if the nearest point of the attacker is not in arc. (Not intuitive to me, but RAW)

I see what you're saying... the point of convergence (A and B) on the defender in your example image is the point specifically identified by rules... but there is nothing defined for the rule-nazi's to demand you measure from the end of attacking ships arc line/ship base intersection. and as we've seen with X-Wing... Written Rules take precedence over common sense.

The rules state that the "measuring point" on the defender is the closest point in arc (and that's obvious). However, the rules make no similar mention for the attacker.

Neither A nor B a good generic answer. The measuring point depends on the relative poisitions of the two ships. Just find the shortest line between the attacker and defender which is inside the firing arc.

Of course... I thought the placement of the ships in my scenario was obvious...

Here's an image.

Thanks, now I understand the question. RAW, you measure from the corner. As you pointed out, the rule does not say that the measuring point on the attacker has to be inside the arc. Not sure if that is the intended interpretation, though.

The edge of the base is considered part of the ship and where you should measure distance from.

I'm pretty sure I remembered this coming up before, so here's an old thread with an alleged answer from the design team saying that the answer is B, from the edge of the printed firing arc.

Not to mention that everyone I know/have watched plays like this is the correct answer and has done so for a really long time.

There are instances where range isn't related to attacking (like target locks or "ship at Range X" abilities). Wouldn't those go from the base corner, not the firing arc edge?

I'm pretty sure I remembered this coming up before, so here's an old thread with an alleged answer from the design team saying that the answer is B, from the edge of the printed firing arc.

Not to mention that everyone I know/have watched plays like this is the correct answer and has done so for a really long time.

Thanks for the link Antigrapist!

And yes, I totally agree with your last sentence. The only reason this came up is a comment on Team Covenant following the new X-Wing VASSAL version.

I'm pretty sure I remembered this coming up before, so here's an old thread with an alleged answer from the design team saying that the answer is B, from the edge of the printed firing arc.

Not to mention that everyone I know/have watched plays like this is the correct answer and has done so for a really long time.

Please correct me if I missed it, but I don't think that thread addresses this specific question. That thread does clarify the "Inside Firing Arc at Range X" issue which is now addressed in the FAQ (p4) - specifically, where on the defender you measure to. Unfortunately, it does not seem to address where on the attacker you start measurement.

The yellow dashed lines on the "Inside Firing Arc at Range X Example" FAQ diagram does imply this is measured within the firing arc:

• The range 1 out of arc measurement to the Firespray is from the corner
• The range 2 out of arc measurement to the Tie Advanced Prototype is from the corner
• The range 2 in arc measurement to the Tie is from the printed arc

Its a shame they didn't put it in words, in particular because an argument could be made that in the last example, the nearest point of Miranda's base to the Tie is not one of the corners, but instead a point along the front edge which is in arc.

The edge of the base is considered part of the ship and where you should measure distance from.

The corner of the attacker is not inside its arc.

Please correct me if I missed it, but I don't think that thread addresses this specific question.

Isn't that what this bit addresses exactly?

As quoted from p 16 of the Rules Reference under Range: "When measuring range for an attack, the attacker measures to the closest point of the target ship that is inside the attacker's firing arc.” This does imply that when measuring range (for a non-turret weapon), it is measured from the front edge of the punchboard as the plastic base on the sides is not inside the attacker’s firing arc.

The edge of the base is considered part of the ship and where you should measure distance from.

The corner of the attacker is not inside its arc.

But, rules as written, it does not say where we should be measuring from inside the attackers arc. It only says where we should be measuring to for an in-arc attack.

Please correct me if I missed it, but I don't think that thread addresses this specific question.

Isn't that what this bit addresses exactly?

As quoted from p 16 of the Rules Reference under Range: "When measuring range for an attack, the attacker measures to the closest point of the target ship that is inside the attacker's firing arc.” This does imply that when measuring range (for a non-turret weapon), it is measured from the front edge of the punchboard as the plastic base on the sides is not inside the attacker’s firing arc.

Frank's response does address this question. Unfortunately though, the passage from the rules reference he is quoting doesn't actually imply what he says it implies. It only describes where we should be measuring to, not where we should be measuring from. As Quarrel noted, this is definitely an oversight in the base rules, and Frank is describing what is intended.

Frank's response does address this question. Unfortunately though, the passage from the rules reference he is quoting doesn't actually imply what he says it implies. It only describes where we should be measuring to, not where we should be measuring from. As Quarrel noted, this is definitely an oversight in the base rules, and Frank is describing what is intended.

Ok, it isn't clear in that thread that the first quote is from Frank. The only thing I saw directly attributed to him was the later post. If this is the case, it should definitely have been errata'd.

Two other bits of "closest point" information:

• Rules Reference, page 14, Obstructed - The attacker cannot attempt to measure range to a point of the defender’s base that is not the closest point in order to avoid measuring through an obstacle. If multiple points are at equal distance from the attacker, he may choose one of those lines for measuring range.

• FAQ, page 5, Parallel Ships and Attacking - If an attacking ship is perfectly parallel to the defender such that there are multiple “closest points” on the defender’s base or the closest point cannot be accurately determined, the attacker chooses where to draw the closest point to closest point line.

Two other bits of "closest point" information:

*snip*

Neither of those helps us out though.

Looks like there may not be anything in the rules that stipulates that the measurement come from a point on the attackers ship that is in arc.

It looks like there is something mentioned in the FAQ on page 4 but that only applies to "Inside Firing Arc At Range X" which I don't think actually applies to in arc attacks.

This is an important question and the graphic is super wonderful.

Option (A) is correct and the method I use in game.

Measuring from the corner is correct according to current wording of the rules for measuring.

Measuring from the corner is correct according to current wording of the rules for measuring.

But only when that corner is the closest point.

Measuring from the corner is correct according to current wording of the rules for measuring.

But only when that corner is the closest point.

Captain obvious right here!