Do these come with any sort of way to store them? Not sure if they come in a tube or similar?

I think they should do this product with print on demand having in mind allowing thrid party playmats for tournaments.

The benefits we ask for printable maps are:

-Easier/Faster setup of a game. Which is a really good thing for tournaments, because if tournaments grow you can shorten up to 10mins each round having a huge impact.

-Buy in, not needing to buy all expansions to play on a tournament. I personally think this point is the key success for tournament play, buy in being mentioned above is too much money, and making play mats 25 each still gives you problems as mentioned above.

This should be used as premier play mats, and an example of how the play map have to be if you want to print them yourself for tournament play so we can get all the benefits we really need for skirmish gaming.

The counter argument for making unnofficial maps legal for tournament play is that they assume they'd loose sales on expansions since people dont need the tiles, but honestly i think they should do this to help grow the game and raise the value of an expansion to not just needing the tiles but having great characters or good cards in them. They could even add some cool terrains in each expansion, like cool doors in one, a couple of terminals in another expansion and stuff like that.

2. Why aren't the missions rules on the map? (ibsh has spoiled us, also Thank You ibsh you have continually done amazing work.)

At least this gets round the problem of people calling over the TO because your opponent does not have the map tiles now.

Also makes it a lot easier for new players to get into the game as well due to the cost. Its just a WIN-WIN all round.

Im a newbie so please excuse... but if your opponent needs tiles, does this mean that some maps cannot be made from a single full playset of core+expansions??

For storage, go to an art supply store and ask for a plastic storge tube. Most have an adjustable lenght and come with a shoulder strap. Shouldn't set you back more than a tenner or tenner and a half.

For price, these are apparently printed on neoprene ("mousepad material"). This means they're foldable, crease-free, sturdy, soft and reasonably stain-resistant. It also means that, unfortunetly, given the printing technology they simply cannot be double sided and simply cannot be cheaper. In fact, given how FFG is not in the mat making business full time, I'm surprised they're only 25$. The profit margin on these is probably minimal to non-existent as is.

How's this for a comparison: these 26'x26' FFG mats retail for 25$. A 28'x24' mat from Inked Playmats retails for 45$.

At least this gets round the problem of people calling over the TO because your opponent does not have the map tiles now.

Also makes it a lot easier for new players to get into the game as well due to the cost. Its just a WIN-WIN all round.

Im a newbie so please excuse... but if your opponent needs tiles, does this mean that some maps cannot be made from a single full playset of core+expansions??

You can make any map from a single set of core+expansion tiles.

This means that for any organized play event, you in fact only need a number of tilesets equal to half the players, ie. half of the people don't actually need to take their tiles out to make the layout.

However, tournament regualtions state that every single player should bring a full playset of tiles and you should randomize who builds the layout each round, so as to avoid a situation in which over half the participants decides "Nah, I don't feel like it, other people will bring the tiles" and you end up short on tilesets.

We're pretty lax about it locally since we have a strong core of fanatical players who usually have enough of everything and are friendly enough to lend stuff to whoever is short. But YMMV apparently.

At least this gets round the problem of people calling over the TO because your opponent does not have the map tiles now.

Also makes it a lot easier for new players to get into the game as well due to the cost. Its just a WIN-WIN all round.

Im a newbie so please excuse... but if your opponent needs tiles, does this mean that some maps cannot be made from a single full playset of core+expansions??

You can make any map from a single set of core+expansion tiles.

This means that for any organized play event, you in fact only need a number of tilesets equal to half the players, ie. half of the people don't actually need to take their tiles out to make the layout.

However, tournament regualtions state that every single player should bring a full playset of tiles and you should randomize who builds the layout each round, so as to avoid a situation in which over half the participants decides "Nah, I don't feel like it, other people will bring the tiles" and you end up short on tilesets.

We're pretty lax about it locally since we have a strong core of fanatical players who usually have enough of everything and are friendly enough to lend stuff to whoever is short. But YMMV apparently.

Thank you very much. I did think one set was enough but started to wonder from the post I quoted but youve explained it perfectly thanks. Im only a newbie but my playset is complete hehe I buy fanatically and in bulk

As much as I like the production of these mats being good support for the game, for me as an old Space Hulk 1st-Ed player part of the fun is building the map jigsaw

for me this is really geared towards the hardcore competitive side of things, which means the appeal is limited. I don't limit myself to the tourny cycle of maps but play all of them, casually. I wish we had a bit more players to make things a bit more competitive or that regionals were closer or whatever. I think the price tag is a bit high, but Im sure the quality is that of their x-wing mats, so probably worth it.

I'm a bit surprised at the cost of $25 per map too. I was thinking somewhere around $10-15 per map, and I'd be happy to pay that. I think I'll get the Coruscant Landfill map (hopefully before or at GenCon) and see how much I like that.

We play enough IA skirmish at home that I'm pretty sure we'll get full value for these maps anyway, even at $25 per map. But the thing is, we already have Nelvaan and Training Ground (thank you again, Ibsh!), so I really can't see myself spending money on those maps.

If you have Amazon Prime I bet they'll pop up there at $18 a mat.

I agree, I think the mats are too much. Especially since they just seem basic. Ive seen better ones. They should have added squares for deployment cards and your draw/discard Command decks. I think the artwork could have coorrelated better with the actual expansion pack and I think everything SHOULD have been printed on the mat. Why give me more junk cards to carry around? Very stupid.

Anyways, I think players could have designed better versions and I foresee MM/CoolStuff putting these on their quarterly reduce price lists to move the product. At $10 Id buy it. Thats a good price. Not $25.

~D

FFG board room: "We have a very successful game here. How can we get more out of it without giving them more plastic or having to think up more missions?"

"Uh S-Sir, couldn't we g-give them what they already have?"

"You're joking right?"

"N-No Sir, we could give them preprinted versions of the skirmish maps."

"Yes...And if we priced them at $25 a pop, they'd think they were saving money, and they would be, but they'd have to buy everything all over again if they want the figures and command cards!"

"Sir, what about this Ibsh who has beat us to the idea, but at a much discouted price?"

"Sick Agent Mickey of the Disney Security Bureau on him! I like your thinking on the subject, Johnson, I can see you going places."

"Thank you, Sir, I have another idea. We should release 6'x3' mats for Armada for $99.95 one could be Yavin and space field, and the other one could be Endor and space field!"

FFG board room: "We have a very successful game here, what is the community clamoring for?"

"Uh S-Sir, couldn't we g-give them what they already have?"

"You're joking right?"

"N-No Sir, we could give them preprinted versions of the skirmish maps. It's what the players have been making for themselves, but kinda crappy qu-qu-qu-quality. We could give them a really nice one!"

"(Sarcastically) Yeesss...And if we priced them at $25 a pop, they'd think they were saving money, and they would be, but they'd have to buy everything all over again if they want the figures and command cards? Sounds like a disaster."

"Sir, some in the community have been paying out the n-n-n-nose to have them made b-b-by a third party. Shouldn't this company c-c-c-c-capitalize on the want's and need of the Imperial Assault Community that WE CREATED?"

"Meh."

"Sir, the whiny b-b-******* on the interwebs will hate it!"

"Johnson, you make a good point. Here is some money, get these made and get that stutter looked at."

I can't make the argument that maps are a $25 problem, but I do really believe that these are priced fairly based on cost. They likely aren't expecting a huge number of people to buy these, so they're probably going to be done POD style in house, and so they don't get the benefit of mass production, so I expect them to be around the same cost as something like inked playmats, which they are. These aren't a cash in, they are just the product that FFG has the ability to produce without buying new equipment or outsourcing low volume production.

I can't make the argument that maps are a $25 problem, but I do really believe that these are priced fairly based on cost. They likely aren't expecting a huge number of people to buy these, so they're probably going to be done POD style in house, and so they don't get the benefit of mass production, so I expect them to be around the same cost as something like inked playmats, which they are. These aren't a cash in, they are just the product that FFG has the ability to produce without buying new equipment or outsourcing low volume production.

I get that. My point was we already have tiles. Is it really worth paying that much to get pre-made maps? Maybe it's cuz I've never been to a tournie, but I've always enjoyed building the maps! Sometimes I'll just sit down and build my own!

I can't make the argument that maps are a $25 problem, but I do really believe that these are priced fairly based on cost. They likely aren't expecting a huge number of people to buy these, so they're probably going to be done POD style in house, and so they don't get the benefit of mass production, so I expect them to be around the same cost as something like inked playmats, which they are. These aren't a cash in, they are just the product that FFG has the ability to produce without buying new equipment or outsourcing low volume production.

THANK YOU! My thoughts exactly.

I can't make the argument that maps are a $25 problem, but I do really believe that these are priced fairly based on cost. They likely aren't expecting a huge number of people to buy these, so they're probably going to be done POD style in house, and so they don't get the benefit of mass production, so I expect them to be around the same cost as something like inked playmats, which they are. These aren't a cash in, they are just the product that FFG has the ability to produce without buying new equipment or outsourcing low volume production.

I get that. My point was we already have tiles. Is it really worth paying that much to get pre-made maps? Maybe it's cuz I've never been to a tournie, but I've always enjoyed building the maps! Sometimes I'll just sit down and build my own!

I like to build my own too. One time my kids tried to build a map using EVERY tile in Descent 2.0. lol, that was fun! I really do like the tile aspect of the game...it allows for a LOT of flexibility in campaign, and it also leaves room for some great RPG cross-over usage.

But from the beginning people have complaining about "official" requirement that only tile-built maps are acceptable, and that pre-printed maps aren't. There were several reasons for this:

1. It forced people to buy all 3 expansion boxes (Core, Twin Shadows, Hoth) before they could even legally attend a tournament. The monetary investment before you could even legally attend a tournament was HUGE. Having to spend $200 before even being able to compete in a tournament...ugh...this has been one of the very biggest stated reasons for the slow growth of the game. [X-Wing, by contrast, only requires you to own a Core Set for $50.] Of course, if you're all-in on IA skirmish (as I am) then it's not a problem because you'll have all the stuff (with extras in many cases) anyway...but it was a massive deterrent for someone who was just starting out, or who wanted to give it a try before fully jumping in. Pre-printed maps lower the initial buy-in cost for new players. [Granted, I don't think anyone thought that the maps would cost $25 each. This price is just too high, IMHO.]

2. It took a long time to assemble the maps. Some people found better ways to organize and store their tiles to help build the map more quickly in a tournament setting, but it was still an unnecessary hassle. I come very well-organized and know the maps well, but it still takes me at least 5 or even 10 minutes to assemble the map once I sit down at the table. Furthermore, since the 65-minute round timer starts when you sit down (and not after the map is set up), that puzzle-making time can shorten a competitive game by a round or more. Pre-printed maps are far more convenient and eliminate needless hassle and time.

3. The tiles tended to receive more wear-and-tear because they had to be brought to every tournament. And you know how gamers can get with the condition of their stuff!

4. Having to carry around your tiles is a pain in the neck. More stuff to carry and keep track of = more stress. And furthermore, see #5 below, which is closely connected....

5. Everything can get lost. This happens with dice or tokens in any game...and it can happen with tiles too. But according to the official tournament rules, you can receive a Loss or even be disqualified from the tournament...all because you lost a single tile. What happens if you misplace one of your tiles (or your opponent accidentally picks it up after a game) and then you need to build the same map again later? Pre-printed maps completely eliminate this possibility for all the most absent-minded players.

There could be more reasons than this, but these are the first ones to come to mind. So yes, I do think that it's worthwhile to pay the extra money for the pre-printed maps; it won't be for everyone, but for all of the benefits I've listed (and perhaps more) it'll be a welcome option for many players. And for those who don't want to buy the printed maps, they can still build their own, as they have before.

I can't make the argument that maps are a $25 problem, but I do really believe that these are priced fairly based on cost. They likely aren't expecting a huge number of people to buy these, so they're probably going to be done POD style in house, and so they don't get the benefit of mass production, so I expect them to be around the same cost as something like inked playmats, which they are. These aren't a cash in, they are just the product that FFG has the ability to produce without buying new equipment or outsourcing low volume production.

Yes, I fully agree that they are priced fairly based on cost.

However, FFG could've chosen a less costly way to make these maps. People don't need fancy for their stuff...in this case, affordability is a big factor. For example, some players are willing and able to spend the extra $100 on a set of Team Covenant skirmish tokens; they look great and seem to be well designed...but that doesn't mean that everyone is willing to spend that kind of money for a simple luxury upgrade.

I think the same reality applies to maps: I would've preferred to spend $10 or $15 on paper or vinyl maps, rather than the premium price of $25 for a premium map. I have some pre-printed maps on vinyl at home and they're just great...I don't need the (admittedly cooler) mousepad material if it's going to drive the price up so high. The map itself is what people want, but the material of the map is kind of immaterial.

They could even add some cool terrains in each expansion, like cool doors in one, a couple of terminals in another expansion and stuff like that.

I'd love cooler doors so much. But usually stuff like this is given out at tournaments (like the acrylic terminals were).

FFG has always produced quality components. Much as I like the price of vinyl mats they are generally poor quality and get worse with in a short time span. I am fine with these prices...but I think TO's should use the cheaper alternatives for big tournaments...keep these for the top tables maybe.

I can't make the argument that maps are a $25 problem, but I do really believe that these are priced fairly based on cost. They likely aren't expecting a huge number of people to buy these, so they're probably going to be done POD style in house, and so they don't get the benefit of mass production, so I expect them to be around the same cost as something like inked playmats, which they are. These aren't a cash in, they are just the product that FFG has the ability to produce without buying new equipment or outsourcing low volume production.

Yes, I fully agree that they are priced fairly based on cost.

However, FFG could've chosen a less costly way to make these maps. People don't need fancy for their stuff...in this case, affordability is a big factor. For example, some players are willing and able to spend the extra $100 on a set of Team Covenant skirmish tokens; they look great and seem to be well designed...but that doesn't mean that everyone is willing to spend that kind of money for a simple luxury upgrade.

I think the same reality applies to maps: I would've preferred to spend $10 or $15 on paper or vinyl maps, rather than the premium price of $25 for a premium map. I have some pre-printed maps on vinyl at home and they're just great...I don't need the (admittedly cooler) mousepad material if it's going to drive the price up so high. The map itself is what people want, but the material of the map is kind of immaterial.

FFG has always produced quality components. Much as I like the price of vinyl mats they are generally poor quality and get worse with in a short time span. I am fine with these prices...but I think TO's should use the cheaper alternatives for big tournaments...keep these for the top tables maybe.

Yes, I do like quality components, and after I pay for these maps I won't resent the fact that they're printed on mousepad material. I don't play X-Wing anymore so I don't have those maps, but I've seen them and like them. And I do have some other mousepad mats (like for Dice Masters and the Marvel: Legendary card game). Quality is always great!

I'm just concerned that the initial buy-in cost for new players is still $75 for all 3 maps; I'm concerned that it might still be too steep for some. I myself am planning to certainly get the Coruscant Landfill map, and at some point possibly (probably!) also the Nelvaan map. And after that it'll just be $25 every few months or so, which isn't a big deal at that point.

...However, as I was about to post this just now, something else occurred to me....

There's another aspect to this too, which I don't think has come up yet: If you own the Core Set (which you need anyway) then you don't need any other expansions to make the Coruscant or Training Ground maps, because they both only use tiles from the Core Set. And so for new players, the Nelvaan map is the only "required" map purchase for tournament play, if they don't want to jump in on the Hoth set right away. Paying and up-front $25 is not as bad as $75.

So yeah, I think it's all good. People can spend the extra $50 for the luxury of these great maps if they want to, but for tournament play the only real "required" purchase (assuming they don't want to buy the Hoth box) is Nelvaan.

'm just concerned that the initial buy-in cost for new players is still $75 for all 3 maps; I'm concerned that it might still be too steep for some. I myself am planning to certainly get the Coruscant Landfill map, and at some point possibly (probably!) also the Nelvaan map. And after that it'll just be $25 every few months or so, which isn't a big deal at that point.

I don't see the intial cost that high...these are option luxury items like the X-wing mats or third party tokens. The idea to buy one a month is perfect though and probably what I will do

If I buy these maps then they could support a small 6 player tournament without anyone else having to provide maps or tiles.

These could be very newbie friendly if people are willing to share.

Actually, I don't understand that discusssion. With one Core Box and 3 maps you have all you need. Has anyone played any other tabletop game? Warmachine, Warhammer, whatever? Do you know these prices?

$25 is less than you just paid for 2 tiny little lumps of plastic called Greedo and Inquisitor. For FF $25 is a very good price. It's also comparable if not cheaper than most other similar mats.

I'm not sure I like this combined with the new rule that says all setup is officially inside your 65 minute timer. That means that it is now basically necessary to buy the oversized, overpriced first party mats, because if you don't have a mat, you'll be at a time disadvantage compared to those that do. You have to build your map before you begin, which takes time. They also did not mention legalizing this party mats, so the $4 a piece options available to our local groups are still illegal and these $25 mats are essentially required if you don't want to waste tournament time.

Bahh, this is just like when they first released those first party X wing mats. I urge TOs to disallow mats of any kind until third party mats arts officially allowed in the rules.

Ok people are saying that the FFG maps are cheaper than getting the unofficial ones printed. If you go to pixartprinting.com string together 5 of them. It will cost 14.86 for a size of 86 inches width by 24 inches height. That is the price when they are not having a half off sale. So if you go with FFG's at 25 a pop and you need 3. HMMMMM that is 75 bucks!!! So I think there is a huge cost savings using the unofficial ones. I will be using ibsh ones over FFG's and I only play local anyways but the unofficial are cheaper. The quality is really good because I have been using them since January of this year.