Hi guys

I've been playing this game since Xmas and I'm starting to get depressed. The strength of demolisher with all its stupid upgrades seems to have no real counters from the rebels. It's getting so depressing I'm thinking of knocking the game on the head!

I have been playing rebels as I like the story behind them. The imperials just seems so easy to build fleets for and there are almost two auto includes for fleet types, demolisher and Reimer.

Has anybody any suggestions? Or does anyone think FFG are going to change this or should they ?

Imo it needs changing because it's a no brainer and when any option is a no brainer it needs changing.

Regards

Very frustrated player!

So Rieekan is good to mitigate the Demolisher alpha strike, as your "dead" ship will be able to attack back. Turbolaser reroute circuits on CR90s are stupid strong and is the closest thing the revels have to something that feels broken, For Demolisher, it might be worth noting that if you can learn to cover yourself, as in have ships in position to hit back after Demolisher pounces, you can set it up where Demolisher has to "trade down" if you offer it a lower costed ship.

Cal is right about Rieekan, but I agree that Demo is stupid and broken. It absolutely needs a nerf or, he'll, just to be removed from the game outright.

I've spent more time trying to figure out how to beat that one ship than anything else at all in this game. I like to think I've gotten pretty good at it, but here's the thing: even if you do successfully counter-threaten something else and come out ahead, it's still not a fun game.

Having the loss of your most important ship be a foregone conclusion at deployment is not fun.

Having to scrabble your way from behind just to break even or get some small MoV after that MC80 or AF2 with 100% defenses just disappeared outright is not fun.

Hell, even from the other side: flying around an invincible ship that can kill everything and magic its way to wherever you want it is not fun.

I understand about flying a blank cheap death ship but it's a lot of points just to do that and it's still not guaranteed to work.

I'm a very experienced wargammer and have been UKs no 1 for many years in another system, so I'm ok at working out armies and problems. The thing with this ship especially with screed etc it is a no brainer. Any choice which is a no brainer is broken.

I am sure that this alone is causing consternation and maybe pushing players away. I have played many many games of this and only once not faced it. This tells you something.

Turbo laser reroute is a great upgrade but it's not in the same class as this ship.

It tells you something when you listen to the stats which have been compiled on tournies which show this to be wrong and too over powered. Ok if you use imperials you may get away with it if your opponent uses it, BUT the rebels have nothing even near.

Please FFG look at this URGENTLY!

It's too easy to use and VERY VERY difficult to counter.

Nebulon-B's a wall of them with TRC's. An 80+ point ship will probably get 1, and then be in a bad place. You also have the Escort Frigate with 2 Blue Anti-Squadron dice, and some points left over.

The good part of the Nebuon's is that they shoot backwards almost as good as they do forwards.

Faction: Rebel Alliance

Points: 395/400

Commander: General Rieekan

Flagship 1 MC8O Assault Cruiser (114 points) 165 total ship cost

General Rieekan ( 30 points)

Support Officer ( 4 points)

Electronic Countermeasures ( 7 points)

Advanced Projectors ( 6 points)

Leading Shots ( 4 points)

Nebulon-B Escort Frigate (57 points) 64 total ship cost

Turbolaser Reroute Circuits ( 7 points)

Nebulon-B Escort Frigate (57 points) 64 total ship cost

Turbolaser Reroute Circuits ( 7 points)

CR90 Corvette A (44 points) 53 total ship cost

Jainas Light ( 2 points)

Turbolaser Reroute Circuits ( 7 points)

1 Tycho Celchu ( 16 points)

3 A-Wing Squadrons ( 33 points)

BTW: Advanced Projectors is a placeholder card for Toryn Farr.

I can't see that to be honest. It's at that point where it may not have initiative, the mc80 seems at risk as soon as the nebs go down in one shot each.

You often don't get a chance to do any engineering because of the gladiator activate last shoot move shoot, new turn shoot, shoot move...no engineering for repairs.

I know if your very very experienced you may get a way of doing something but a game shouldn't need that.

The thing is it needs to change. I don't know one imperial player who dosnt use it regularly....if not all the time.

Three options.

Squads, especially rogues. These can deal with Demolisher whilst the rest of your fleet dodges battle for the first few turns. Use the squads to avoid deploying your important ships till demo is on the table. Good obstacle placement helps.

Sacrifice ships. If you have slow ships in your fleet, then it really helps to have rieekan blockers. Fly them close, and use them to hold Demo in your killing zone. Again 4 Awings or similar helps you win this in deployment.

Speed. Only take speed 4 ships. Deploy spread out. Dodge the sucker. Trc him to death.

Whats your current list?

Speed control, speed control, speed control.

Going fast is not everything, sometimes you need to stay slow and predict movement. That is how I counter Demolisher. Another method is Lando, another is Mon Mothma or Rieekan.

If you can learn to predict movement, Lear to sacrifice a ship, and learn to use the Navigate for all it is worth (which is a lot) than you will learn to counter Demolisher.

Something else, do some tests, see what Demolisher can do and what ranges it needs to do its job. If you can disrupt that you will have a better chance.

I've been trying a few lists. This was a current on:-

395

Assault frigate a

Intel

Gunnery

Heavy TL

assault b

Intel

Gunnery

Xi7

Mc30

Sensor team

TRC

ACM

Covette a

Ackbar

Jainas light

Leia

Tycho

A wing

Ah ok.

There are two very important rules of thumb for building strong lists. (Which can be ignored once you understand why they exist)

Deployment numbers should be at least 7, if not 8. Your list has 5 deployments (4 ship, 1 squad pair). This means that you will get beaten in deployment time and time again. Its not just Demo, but the more you can deploy after they have placed their threat ships, the better prepared you will be in battle.

Activation numbers should be at least 3, preferably 4. This means that you can dont give up the last activation that easily to your opponent. It is this which enables your opponent to move their ship late in the turn and activate first the next turn. You've got this with your current list.

Once you have played with lists which meet these criteria a bit then feel free to ignore these rules of thumb. My current list breaks deployment numbers quite badly, but I have a high bid and am well aware of the handicap i have given myself in doing so.

These are the ships I have:-

Mc80 X 1

Mc30 X 3

Corvette X 2

Nebs X 2

Assault frigates X 2

Lots of squadrons.

That's interesting advice.

Try this out for size. 7 deployments, 4 activations.

Group Obstacles in the centre of the map. Place Jaina in the middle first, then all the squads. Now at this point stop and look at the table. Your opponent will have deployed 5 ships/squadron pairs. Likely you can predict where he will place the rest and can act accordingly. If you need to delay further, well the corvette B isnt much of a loss.

Why Jaina first? Because if you group the obstacles in the middle, she can escape pretty much any situation by simply flying into the asteroid field.....

Most Wanted, your corvette B versus Demolisher

Fire Lanes, spread the tokens out, likely Jaina or the Corvette B will be able to single handidly take 90pts from a single token uncontested.

Intel Sweep, Send the corvette B of to collect 75 points.

Steve 68
Author: Ginkapo

Faction: Rebel Alliance
Points: 398/400

Commander: Admiral Ackbar

Assault Objective: Most Wanted
Defense Objective: Fire Lanes
Navigation Objective: Intel Sweep

MC30c Scout Frigate (69 points)
- Admonition ( 8 points)

- Turbolaser Reroute Circuits ( 7 points)
= 84 total ship cost

CR90 Corvette A (44 points)
- Jainas Light ( 2 points)
- Turbolaser Reroute Circuits ( 7 points)
= 53 total ship cost

[ flagship ] Assault Frigate Mark II A (81 points)
- Admiral Ackbar ( 38 points)
- Intel Officer ( 7 points)
- Electronic Countermeasures ( 7 points)
= 133 total ship cost

CR90 Corvette B (39 points)
= 39 total ship cost

3 A-Wing Squadrons ( 33 points)
1 Tycho Celchu ( 16 points)
1 Dash Rendar ( 24 points)
1 YT-2400 ( 16 points)

Ah ok.

There are two very important rules of thumb for building strong lists. (Which can be ignored once you understand why they exist)

Deployment numbers should be at least 7, if not 8. Your list has 5 deployments (4 ship, 1 squad pair). This means that you will get beaten in deployment time and time again. Its not just Demo, but the more you can deploy after they have placed their threat ships, the better prepared you will be in battle.

Activation numbers should be at least 3, preferably 4. This means that you can dont give up the last activation that easily to your opponent. It is this which enables your opponent to move their ship late in the turn and activate first the next turn. You've got this with your current list.

Once you have played with lists which meet these criteria a bit then feel free to ignore these rules of thumb. My current list breaks deployment numbers quite badly, but I have a high bid and am well aware of the handicap i have given myself in doing so.

Thank you for your help I will give that list a go.

With the advent of flotillas and slicer tools, im aiming to have at least one, ideally two GR75 transports that can constantly muck about with Demolisher's command dials. Having a Demolisher with useless commands turn after turn will help mitigate its use of engine techs/ give its target ship more time to respond. This of course would require you having first activation and using the slicer flotilla first.

I agree with Gammon that Flotillas will help a lot. They can get close to demolisher on the side arc and scatter away the damage. This will take a bit of flying. Since it is a small base you can use tractor beams to take away the token and follow up slicer to take away the dial. It is going to be interesting.

The slicer is great but it also has to be a distance 1-5 which means it's at risk. One good shot and that goes down.

The slicer is great but it also has to be a distance 1-5 which means it's at risk. One good shot and that goes down.

However, Demolisher doesnt have and red or blue dice out of its side arcs...... so no accuracy.

Which means you dont need to go first. Just make sure the flotilla is the only thing Demo can catch, and then toy with it.

Here is my take on Flotilla vs demolisher. Most of the time a player with demolisher will bid for Initiative with high activations to get the last and first attack. A person that plays demolisher is usually going to activate demolisher last in their round, so you can time your flotilla to activate before your opponents last activation, which will be demolisher. Depending on the speed they are running and their demolisher configuration, will affect how you flotilla will handle demolisher.

For the tractor beams to work you have to be in range 5, which you would activate to take away the navigate token or slow it down a notch. On your maneuver step, move within distance 3 to activate the slicer and change the top dial of demolisher to something other than a navigate to take away the use of engine techs. Ideally, you want to move within the side arc to his black dice and the reason why is that he does not have an accuracy with the black dice and you can scatter away all his hits. if you do get stuck in his front arc, he has a 1 in 8 chance of rolling an accuracy with the red dice.

After saying all the above, I am hoping your other ships have red dice to shoot at demolisher from a distance and keep it out of short range. Happy hunting.

The other thing to note you are exchanging a 31 point ship (rebel) for the cheapest demolisher with engine tech at 74 points. The Flotilla will not kill demolisher but will set demolisher to be killed by other ships and take away his one big ability.

All the above is based on a players ability to maneuver their ships and their opponents ability to maneuver their ships.

However, Demolisher doesnt have and red or blue dice out of its side arcs...... so no accuracy.

Unless of course, its a Glad-II..... >.>

WITH SENSOR TEAMS

Amirite?