Deadeye isnt the problem, its JM5Ks cheap dirt cost with an EPT, 9 hp and 2 greens, and PWT.

A way to fix the problem is to give rebels and imps a comparable ship. Give punishers a title to have an ept. Give bwings and kwings a title for an ept.

I agree the problem really the dirt cheap ship with the ept and a dial that is better than most small FIGHERS!

Hopefully FFG will see the problem and FAQ the cost somehow and raise it.

As for the punishers, Kwings or Bwings a title to get better- that really doesnt solve the movement dial issue, now does it?

Really FFG needs to make worse dials on large ships, since there is no way a large ship should be moremaneuverable than a small ship that is supposed to be maneverable and an actual dogfighter.

Deadeye isnt the problem, its JM5Ks cheap dirt cost with an EPT, 9 hp and 2 greens, and PWT.

A way to fix the problem is to give rebels and imps a comparable ship. Give punishers a title to have an ept. Give bwings and kwings a title for an ept.

That would lead to rampant powercreep, don't you think? An arms race that would render most other ships irrelevant unless they also get the same toys.

And it's not just the EPT slot that makes the scout broken.

It's the combination of Deadeye EPT + modifying Droid + optional Crew + optional illicit + extra munition-friendly double torpedoes slots + turret for out of arc or out of munitions + lots of greens + white segnor loops + PS3 + barrel roll + nothing competing for chips + ...

Had it been proposed in this forum by a fan, it would have been dismissed by the rest as crazy overpowered design, almost immediately. It's an orgy of upgrade slots, turret, actions, dial, ...

If this ship had been released at the same time as the TIE Defender, it wouldn't have costed less than 35-40 points. Remember that a PS1 Defender is 30 points, and it has 4 straight greens and 1 white koiogran, while this thing has 6 greens (two of them turns), and white segnor.

TIE Punishers, K-Wings, and B-Wings are miles behind this ship. Not just lacking an EPT on generics. They lack at dial, action economy, agility, movility... All of them already have at least one desirable modification competing with Guidance Chips.

Much would they need to be buffed to come to even terms with the scouts. So much that I find it really unlikely that it ever happens.

I still say that no one would have even thought about torpedoes on the jumpmaster without guidance chips. Even with the rest of the upgrade slots.

I understand the desire to make ordnance viable, but the hard part is making it viable without making the alpha strikes overpowered. Which is what happened with the uboats. Without chips, the jumpmaster would be a perfectly fine ship.

I still say that no one would have even thought about torpedoes on the jumpmaster without guidance chips. Even with the rest of the upgrade slots.

I understand the desire to make ordnance viable, but the hard part is making it viable without making the alpha strikes overpowered. Which is what happened with the uboats. Without chips, the jumpmaster would be a perfectly fine ship.

Would be a "yet another useless PWT with LOL 2 ATTACK "

Remember what happened to PWTs? They died.

Looks like there are areas where people are already getting bored with Triple Scouts.

http://www.notsuchabadpilot.com/fahs/fear-anger-hate-suffering-analysis-of-the-nova-meta-vol-2-no-2/

Their numbers will balance out as more people start blocking like crazy and the people that played for the Deadeye + Aggromech combo will move on to different lists.
Especially now that they have to think about destressing by doing very predictable turns to the left since Overclocked seems to be the way to go now.

People complaining about Jumpmasters dont know how to play this game. Or simply cant stand adapting to new styles.

Many people have pointed out lists that own jumpmasters. Either play one of those lists or learn to fly your better.

1. I know how to play this game, and when I play JumpMasters against players that also know how to play this game - they struggle - unless they fly PalpAces. Because I get to place 3 of those obstacles where I want, and that dial yo...

2. As many people have pointed out, flying a hard-counter list to JumpMasters leaves you in the dust vs stuff like Palp Aces, BroBots, etc.

The ship, and its broken albeit slighly-less-so-post-faq combo, is undercosted.

People complaining about Jumpmasters dont know how to play this game. Or simply cant stand adapting to new styles.

Many people have pointed out lists that own jumpmasters. Either play one of those lists or learn to fly your better.

1. I know how to play this game, and when I play JumpMasters against players that also know how to play this game - they struggle - unless they fly PalpAces. Because I get to place 3 of those obstacles where I want, and that dial yo...

2. As many people have pointed out, flying a hard-counter list to JumpMasters leaves you in the dust vs stuff like Palp Aces, BroBots, etc.

The ship, and its broken albeit slighly-less-so-post-faq combo, is undercosted.

Just wait for the waves and ripples to settle. The more people start using Palpaces, the more they will start countering them.

And the more they do, the more stable the game begins.

There IS NO list that can freight-train-through both PalpAces and UUU (U666U) lists

and as such, we get the triangle of doom something that wipes the ace-lists dies to UUU, and UUU gets killed by things afraid of aces.

I still say that no one would have even thought about torpedoes on the jumpmaster without guidance chips. Even with the rest of the upgrade slots.

I understand the desire to make ordnance viable, but the hard part is making it viable without making the alpha strikes overpowered. Which is what happened with the uboats. Without chips, the jumpmaster would be a perfectly fine ship.

Would be a "yet another useless PWT with LOL 2 ATTACK "

Remember what happened to PWTs? They died.

No - they are called Dengar and Manaroo now and they are very much alive.

Deadeye isnt the problem, its JM5Ks cheap dirt cost with an EPT, 9 hp and 2 greens, and PWT.

A way to fix the problem is to give rebels and imps a comparable ship. Give punishers a title to have an ept. Give bwings and kwings a title for an ept.

I agree the problem really the dirt cheap ship with the ept and a dial that is better than most small FIGHERS!

Hopefully FFG will see the problem and FAQ the cost somehow and raise it.

As for the punishers, Kwings or Bwings a title to get better- that really doesnt solve the movement dial issue, now does it?

Really FFG needs to make worse dials on large ships, since there is no way a large ship should be moremaneuverable than a small ship that is supposed to be maneverable and an actual dogfighter.

Fighters are the old combat standard, freighters are the new weapons platform of choice. Freighters rule, fighters are old school.

Please make small ships Deadeye only. All other EPT's are OP and broken and should be burnt in a wicker TIE Advance.

That would at least point to the possibility that the JM5K, as a whole, is actually the problem.

.

I was actually having this conversation the other day, the combination of upgrades, and the dial that makes makes Zuckuss's drawback irrelevant is just too good. People point out that the generic YT 2400 doesn't get played at its cost (so the insinuation is the Jumpmaster wouldn't either) but it has nowhere near the combo of upgrades or anything remotely as good as the dial. Sure, it's a lopsided dial but it's a difference between good and fantastic.

This is really the issue.

The JumpMaster is too cheap. For a comparable stat line and a much better dial, it is 5 points less than the baseline YT 2400.

I don't get it why people still cry about the Scouts. The Agro nerf was all that was needed to fix them for the general public that only knows how to fly jousters.

I never had problems dealing with them even before the nerf.

A great way to deal with them is this:

Happened at a local store tournament last weekend.

The Scouts lost 2 matches, when people forced them to fly through rocks and engaged them at range 1.

Not to mention Biggs is probably their Nemesis...

Good squad, and beautiful map!

Just print a Yoda card for Rebels that cancels Palpatine.

Yeah, and pack it in a Rebel Huge ship! Maybe a Corellian Gunship that can chew up Raiders - if the Rebels have cookie-cutter large ship freighters, they can have copy-paste Huges ships, too, right? (I actually think this is a horrible idea, unless they can come up with a good, unique-looking huge ship).

Looks like there are areas where people are already getting bored with Triple Scouts.

http://www.notsuchabadpilot.com/fahs/fear-anger-hate-suffering-analysis-of-the-nova-meta-vol-2-no-2/

Their numbers will balance out as more people start blocking like crazy and the people that played for the Deadeye + Aggromech combo will move on to different lists.

Especially now that they have to think about destressing by doing very predictable turns to the left since Overclocked seems to be the way to go now.

Thank you! I agree with this so much. Why did Fat Han fall out of favor? Because it couldn't hack it against new squads? Nope. It's because everybody got tired of it. Tired of flying it, and tired of fighting against it. Maybe there are some counters out now, but a Fat Han player that was dedicated to the squad would find a way to modify it and his attack strategy to face the current meta. Triple Torp Scouts is in the same boat - people are starting to get tired of it, and we'll see fewer of them. This means that some squads that get squashed by Triple Scouts may never see them in a tournament setting, and diversity will prevail.

Oh, and TIe defenders are supreme leaders now, so good night U-boats!

That would at least point to the possibility that the JM5K, as a whole, is actually the problem.

.

I was actually having this conversation the other day, the combination of upgrades, and the dial that makes makes Zuckuss's drawback irrelevant is just too good. People point out that the generic YT 2400 doesn't get played at its cost (so the insinuation is the Jumpmaster wouldn't either) but it has nowhere near the combo of upgrades or anything remotely as good as the dial. Sure, it's a lopsided dial but it's a difference between good and fantastic.

This is really the issue.

The JumpMaster is too cheap. For a comparable stat line and a much better dial, it is 5 points less than the baseline YT 2400.

It's always worth remembering in this comparison that the YTs are both too expensive. Sure the JM is too cheap, but some of that is because the YTs need a cut in cost as well.

I suspect that the Scout would be about right at 26 without the EPT or 27 with it (bumping both manaroo and tel up by the same) and the YTs would need to be cut to about the same level.

I do wonder whether the Smuggling Compartment will be a negative cost for the YTs so that they get a substantial discount and an illicit slot.

I only read page one, but i'd be behind on the all EPT's unique idea.

It'd really change all the rules, but wouldn't break anything.

I only read page one, but i'd be behind on the all EPT's unique idea.

It'd really change all the rules, but wouldn't break anything.

As has already been pointed out; Attani Mindlink users beg to differ. We shall riot if this happens. RIOT I TELL YOU!!!!

I only read page one, but i'd be behind on the all EPT's unique idea.

It'd really change all the rules, but wouldn't break anything.

As has already been pointed out; Attani Mindlink users beg to differ. We shall riot if this happens. RIOT I TELL YOU!!!!

Attani Mindlink should be unique and 1 point, and should include the text 'this effect applies to all ships in your squad which do not have an [EPT] upgrade equipped. (Yes, including ones without the slot)

Then it might actually be good rather than just OK.

I only read page one, but i'd be behind on the all EPT's unique idea.

It'd really change all the rules, but wouldn't break anything.

As has already been pointed out; Attani Mindlink users beg to differ. We shall riot if this happens. RIOT I TELL YOU!!!!

Attani Mindlink should be unique and 1 point, and should include the text 'this effect applies to all ships in your squad which do not have an [EPT] upgrade equipped. (Yes, including ones without the slot)

Then it might actually be good rather than just OK.

It won't be good until it's broken. And then it'll need to be nerfed. Then fixed with an upgrade in a huge ship. Then nerfed again.

I think it's actually rather good now in all honesty.

Thank you! I agree with this so much. Why did Fat Han fall out of favor? Because it couldn't hack it against new squads? Nope. It's because everybody got tired of it. Tired of flying it, and tired of fighting against it. Maybe there are some counters out now, but a Fat Han player that was dedicated to the squad would find a way to modify it and his attack strategy to face the current meta. Triple Torp Scouts is in the same boat - people are starting to get tired of it, and we'll see fewer of them. This means that some squads that get squashed by Triple Scouts may never see them in a tournament setting, and diversity will prevail.

FatHan got pushed out by TLTs and the half point MoV change. Plenty of people are sick to death of playing with Palp Aces too but they keep winning so you'll keep seeing them

That would at least point to the possibility that the JM5K, as a whole, is actually the problem.

.

I was actually having this conversation the other day, the combination of upgrades, and the dial that makes makes Zuckuss's drawback irrelevant is just too good. People point out that the generic YT 2400 doesn't get played at its cost (so the insinuation is the Jumpmaster wouldn't either) but it has nowhere near the combo of upgrades or anything remotely as good as the dial. Sure, it's a lopsided dial but it's a difference between good and fantastic.

This is really the issue.

The JumpMaster is too cheap. For a comparable stat line and a much better dial, it is 5 points less than the baseline YT 2400.

It's always worth remembering in this comparison that the YTs are both too expensive. Sure the JM is too cheap, but some of that is because the YTs need a cut in cost as well.

I suspect that the Scout would be about right at 26 without the EPT or 27 with it (bumping both manaroo and tel up by the same) and the YTs would need to be cut to about the same level.

I do wonder whether the Smuggling Compartment will be a negative cost for the YTs so that they get a substantial discount and an illicit slot.

I eluded to this, but 5 points cheaper for a better dial (by far -- a white sloop on a big ship, really?)) and one of the best combinations of upgrade slots that we've seen on any ship? I think the Jumpers could be about 3 points higher and still see play.

That would at least point to the possibility that the JM5K, as a whole, is actually the problem.

.

I was actually having this conversation the other day, the combination of upgrades, and the dial that makes makes Zuckuss's drawback irrelevant is just too good. People point out that the generic YT 2400 doesn't get played at its cost (so the insinuation is the Jumpmaster wouldn't either) but it has nowhere near the combo of upgrades or anything remotely as good as the dial. Sure, it's a lopsided dial but it's a difference between good and fantastic.

This is really the issue.

The JumpMaster is too cheap. For a comparable stat line and a much better dial, it is 5 points less than the baseline YT 2400.

It's always worth remembering in this comparison that the YTs are both too expensive. Sure the JM is too cheap, but some of that is because the YTs need a cut in cost as well.

I suspect that the Scout would be about right at 26 without the EPT or 27 with it (bumping both manaroo and tel up by the same) and the YTs would need to be cut to about the same level.

I do wonder whether the Smuggling Compartment will be a negative cost for the YTs so that they get a substantial discount and an illicit slot.

I eluded to this, but 5 points cheaper for a better dial (by far -- a white sloop on a big ship, really?)) and one of the best combinations of upgrade slots that we've seen on any ship? I think the Jumpers could be about 3 points higher and still see play.

I don't disagree - but I think that would make them slightly too expensive (certainly if you lost the EPT). They'd still see play, but they'd be a lot less competitive.

The ORS and WSF could do with being similarly cheap, the ORS slightly cheaper than the WSF.

I still say that no one would have even thought about torpedoes on the jumpmaster without guidance chips. Even with the rest of the upgrade slots.

I understand the desire to make ordnance viable, but the hard part is making it viable without making the alpha strikes overpowered. Which is what happened with the uboats. Without chips, the jumpmaster would be a perfectly fine ship.

Would be a "yet another useless PWT with LOL 2 ATTACK "

Remember what happened to PWTs? They died.

That would at least point to the possibility that the JM5K, as a whole, is actually the problem.

.

I was actually having this conversation the other day, the combination of upgrades, and the dial that makes makes Zuckuss's drawback irrelevant is just too good. People point out that the generic YT 2400 doesn't get played at its cost (so the insinuation is the Jumpmaster wouldn't either) but it has nowhere near the combo of upgrades or anything remotely as good as the dial. Sure, it's a lopsided dial but it's a difference between good and fantastic.

This is really the issue.

The JumpMaster is too cheap. For a comparable stat line and a much better dial, it is 5 points less than the baseline YT 2400.

Fat Han is out because the level of firepower is so much higher in non-swarm lists nowadays that he can't stay alive very well and a lot of aces are better against his shots than before.

I won a store champ with fat han and miranda but I don't think i'd ever take that risk again.

I still say that no one would have even thought about torpedoes on the jumpmaster without guidance chips. Even with the rest of the upgrade slots.

I understand the desire to make ordnance viable, but the hard part is making it viable without making the alpha strikes overpowered. Which is what happened with the uboats. Without chips, the jumpmaster would be a perfectly fine ship.

Would be a "yet another useless PWT with LOL 2 ATTACK "

Remember what happened to PWTs? They died.

And yet my 2 attack pwt bumpmaster solod a soontir fel. Ive done quite well with my bumpmaster guri 4lom list. And my manaroo guri drea mindlink list. And even more so with my super dengar/xizor list. Only the dengar list has the title and none of them have ordnance.

That would at least point to the possibility that the JM5K, as a whole, is actually the problem.

.

I was actually having this conversation the other day, the combination of upgrades, and the dial that makes makes Zuckuss's drawback irrelevant is just too good. People point out that the generic YT 2400 doesn't get played at its cost (so the insinuation is the Jumpmaster wouldn't either) but it has nowhere near the combo of upgrades or anything remotely as good as the dial. Sure, it's a lopsided dial but it's a difference between good and fantastic.

This is really the issue.

The JumpMaster is too cheap. For a comparable stat line and a much better dial, it is 5 points less than the baseline YT 2400.

You cant really make a valid comparison with a ship thats clearly too expensive and never used

First of all it's not U-boat that solo's a soontir. it's Bumpmaster.

Torpmaster is Bumpmaster's bro, but they are different. They have a middle bro who has no Droid but sports a Feedback and can ponentially do both jobs a bit.

Usual U-boats? Can't do hell to aces.

and YT-2400 is a fine comparison. it sports THE BEST DIAL ever seen, sporting all the regular movements. Has 1 shield more and the same BR for blocking duty. EPT? Okay, no EPT. Not that it needed one, though. Intimidation sounds cool, but it's worthless 90% of the time, and not the reason Bumpmaster works.

all the yt-2400 needs, apart from the illicit slot it's probably getting in heroes, is to be at least 2-3 points cheaper (or get feedback for free)

except dash, obviously

It's already a better blocker, with such things in mind, give it a discount and feedback and it's now a disproportionately better blocker >_>

maybe we just need different dice, so that 2 attack might stop sounding like a sick joke.
Armada already told us that blue+black is an entirely different story than blue+blue and a league apart from red+red.

make it a 2-dice black bazooka or alternatively make it a 2-dice blue sniper rifle and it gets it's special place.

But it needs X 2.0