We saw spiders in Heirs too, and a very scary one at that.

I understand that some people do like orcs a lot so this makes them happy I guess. It's a matter of taste. I never said that orcs in Harad was far-fetched or unlikely (when saying wargs are out of place I meant that in a more artisitc sense, I mean sure, wargs in the desert are possible, but that's not want I want to see when I go to the desert). The scenarios presented here are not breaking the lore in any way, BUT, this is still a game and a piece of art where the creators are expected to innovate and, you know, be artistic; go where they haven't gone before, like they did with the corsairs and dunlendings. If we're going to have possibly the most exotic expansion in this game ever, with African-style bomas and Arabic hamadas and wadis, I would have preferred an equally exotic choice of enemies in this third quest, again, Half Trolls or Haradrim instead of orcs on wargs, even if both make sense thematically. It's just about going for the new stuff when presented with the occasion.

I do aknowledge though the creativity in the other 2 quests and the mechanics of the third quest with the heroes in the staging area and all that.

I was hoping that my comment would spark responses like yours, Bullroarer. Looking forward to read more of them. :-)

Regarding your points:

1. How is temperature really different from lowering your maximum threat as in Trouble in Tharbad?

2. Do objective-hero cards feel that much different from the occasional objective-ally card we have seen before?

3. Well, yeah, the idea is cool but really not that different from previous enemy attachments (e.g. for the Nazguls), is it?

I haven't actually received and played the deluxe box yet so what I have to say is purely based off the spoilers and not experience.

1) well it seems like you can't lower temperature in any way whatsoever and if it gets to a certain level you lose so that is pretty different from threat which can be lowered or raised. If anything it is more of a strict timer (that cannot be reduced) and if anything I would say it is far more similar to time counters than it is to threat.

2) I would imagine that the Objective heroes also generate resources? Could be wrong here as again I dont have the box yet im just going off spoilers but I imagine they generate resources and can pay for neutral cards (or maybe even cards of any sphere?). It seems as though you start the third quest off with all your heroes captured and with only an objective hero under your control so surely they generate resources? I guess they aren't THAT different from objective allies but they do have some really cool abilities and art so to me they are definitely different enough to be interesting and exciting.

3) it isnt THAT different but at the same time it does operate in a very different manner to "nazgul" or "condition" attachments that enemies can receive in a few ways. First off if there are no nazgul in play the nazgul attachments simply whiff, this card will still enter play as its own enemy if there are no orcs in play. Once you destroy a nazgul the attachments are discarded as well, if you destroy the attached orc enemy the warg becomes its own foe that you still have to deal with. Its the same concept (enemy attachments/mounts) but done in a very different and new way. I for one think the design on this card is absolutely incredible and I cannot wait to see what its like during actual gameplay.

We saw spiders in Heirs too, and a very scary one at that.

I understand that some people do like orcs a lot so this makes them happy I guess. It's a matter of taste. I never said that orcs in Harad was far-fetched or unlikely (when saying wargs are out of place I meant that in a more artisitc sense, I mean sure, wargs in the desert are possible, but that's not want I want to see when I go to the desert). The scenarios presented here are not breaking the lore in any way, BUT, this is still a game and a piece of art where the creators are expected to innovate and, you know, be artistic; go where they haven't gone before, like they did with the corsairs and dunlendings. If we're going to have possibly the most exotic expansion in this game ever, with African-style bomas and Arabic hamadas and wadis, I would have preferred an equally exotic choice of enemies in this third quest, again, Half Trolls or Haradrim instead of orcs on wargs, even if both make sense thematically. It's just about going for the new stuff when presented with the occasion.

I do aknowledge though the creativity in the other 2 quests and the mechanics of the third quest with the heroes in the staging area and all that.

yeah fair enough re orc enemies and sorry for somewhat misunderstanding you, they definitely could have been more creative and given us some other form of enemy. Hell they could have had both Orcs AND half trolls.

I was hoping that my comment would spark responses like yours, Bullroarer. Looking forward to read more of them. :-)

Regarding your points:

1. How is temperature really different from lowering your maximum threat as in Trouble in Tharbad?

2. Do objective-hero cards feel that much different from the occasional objective-ally card we have seen before?

3. Well, yeah, the idea is cool but really not that different from previous enemy attachments (e.g. for the Nazguls), is it?

2. Not too much except that they do generate resources.

3. Psycho covered this one.

I might have added one more mechanic which I forgot. There are enemies that get stronger as we get farther into the quest. "X equals the quest stage."

Speaking more generally now, I'm not a big fan of the undead. (Not sure why honestly.) and I was getting kinda tired of pirates too. Smashing orcs feels right.

There are some spoilers over at CGDB that clarify some of the above points. Objective heroes collect neutral resources apparently and the quest cards state that the first card played each phase does not require a resource match.

Psychorocka, no worries at all. I'm still hyped as heck for this box and the subsequent cycle. I also do hold some hope we will see Half Trolls eventually, hopefully as the main enemy of an AP, or maybe even just one or two like the were-wolves, though I would like if there were many more. I'm also extremely hyped for a Harad trait deck in particular.

I was hoping that my comment would spark responses like yours, Bullroarer. Looking forward to read more of them. :-)

Regarding your points:

1. How is temperature really different from lowering your maximum threat as in Trouble in Tharbad?

2. Do objective-hero cards feel that much different from the occasional objective-ally card we have seen before?

3. Well, yeah, the idea is cool but really not that different from previous enemy attachments (e.g. for the Nazguls), is it?

1. Temperature is different in two ways. So far there is no way to spin the dial backwards AND there are enemies whose strength increases as the Mercury rises.

2. Not too much except that they do generate resources.

3. Psycho covered this one.

I might have added one more mechanic which I forgot. There are enemies that get stronger as we get farther into the quest. "X equals the quest stage."

Speaking more generally now, I'm not a big fan of the undead. (Not sure why honestly.) and I was getting kinda tired of pirates too. Smashing orcs feels right.

YES! Not that big a fan of undead in this game either (love the art and theme but not actually fighting them during gameplay) and as much as I loved crushing Pirate scum I am a bit sick of Corsairs as well. It will be nice to get back to taking out scores of nasty orcs.

I would really like to hear other players opinions on this. For me, playing solo, the first quest is the hardest by far.

Interesting. How would you compare it to Raid or Dyke? Are the other 2 quests easier for solo?

For me the 3rd quest was the hardest. The first quest, you have to quest like mad.

I played a deck with the new Gimli and Legolas, paired with Haldir.

Interesting. How would you compare it to Raid or Dyke? Are the other 2 quests easier for solo?

I don't think I ever played Raid solo, but Deadman's Dyke is probably harder.

Just went through the box in solo with Beravor/Gimli/Legolas (link). Overall, I thought it was fantastic and I give the box a 5/5. The player cards are interesting and fun to use, but not overpowered. I thoroughly enjoyed every quest, and even though I just went through them I find myself wanting to play each of them again. I think part of that is due to the existence of the side quests which can give you a unique experience depending on which ones show up (Southron Champion came up for me, and I loved taking that guy down).

Spoilers:

For all the quests, I thought they really nailed the theme. I felt like I was being chased, then dying of thirst, then overrun with orcs. I think the effects on the final boss, the Uruk Chieftian, is quite brilliant. It definitely feels like some boss is sending his underlings ahead of him to weaken you before dealing with you himself. I think the designers are getting much smarter with their boss battles lately (Sahir from City of Corsairs was another mechanic I liked) to make the fights challenging, while not simply stacking the boss with a million hit points and making him immune to everything.

For the Long arm of Mordor - I think this is the best "captured" mechanic they've come up with so far. I didn't feel utterly crippled with a useless hand from the get-go. I think this is thanks to the "no resource match required for the first card played" effect.

I would really like to hear other players opinions on this. For me, playing solo, the first quest is the hardest by far.

Actually, the first quest was my only loss, and it was on turn 1 because I flipped up something with high threat and didn't make any progress despite questing with everyone. In terms of difficulty, I thought all the quests were pretty even. Some could be easier or harder depending on your deck type. Bringing a major turtle deck to Escape from Umbar wouldn't go over well, while I could see a high willpower deck cruising through it more easily.

Well, I thought I couldn't be more hyped, but I am.

Played Escape From New York Umbar last night with 4 players. Much harder than Voyage Across Belagaer. Did not help that I had a non-combat deck, but the Aragorn Murder Train did it's thing so it all worked out.

Tried the first quest today with decks I had lying about from the dream chaser cycle, eowyn/glorfindel and a ranger trap deck (2 handed) and lost after quite a struggle.

Built a rough version of Aragorn, gimli, legolas (leadership/leadership/spirit) and beat it after some tense moments, but got gimli and Aragorn kiled in the last two rounds. Dunedain remedy really helped with the archery damage.

Greatly enjoyed the box. Quick thoughts:

Escape from Umbar: Managed to win this quest on the first try, but suspect this is the most difficult in the box.

Desert Crossing: Thought it was one of the more successful wilderness travel quests in the game.

Long Arm of Mordor: Most difficult of the three quests for me personally, but probably not as hard as Escape from Umbar. Agree with Seastan's assessment that it's the best of the the three prisoner quests (Escape from Dol Guldor, Escape from Mount Gram), particularly because it doesn't totally hamstring the player(s). I thought Mount Gram was also a solid prisoner quest, but this quest is not nearly as finicky to set up. I also found the rescuing mechanic to be well-executed. It's challenging to deal with, but simple to understand. The "first card played each phase does not require a resource match" was also well done, as it provides the players options despite missing their heroes. Also really liked the Objective heroes. They definitely felt more interesting to use than Objective allies.

I thought the box did a solid job of providing us three engaging quests without a lot of overhead to manage. The busiest quest to me was the first, as a large amount of enemies can make it onto the board. The other two were pretty easy to work with from a board management/clutter standpoint. Additionally, I enjoyed the encounter side quests because there were fewer of them and they were not nearly as brutal as the Lost Realm cycle. To me, that provided for more variable and interesting game play. While I liked the Lost Realm encounter side quests, I thought many of them were so overwhelming as to be mandatory. Finally, I enjoyed the story presented in the quests and the rules insert, particularly as it fed into the final quest and its conclusion. I am definitely excited to play the first AP!

mandatory 2 ez w8 4 n1hgtm4r3 post conf1rm3d

Played through the box today, first quest 3 player and the next two quests 4 player. Won the first two quests on the first try, but I thoroughly enjoyed them and it was a tough fight. The progress mechanic on the first quest was a lot of fun, and the temperature mechanic is a slick way to ramp difficulty and apply a time pressure.

The third quest though, Long Arm of Mordor... I don't think it works in 4 player. Maaaaybe if you all build decks specifically for that quest. First game, first turn we quested with every character except for the ranged and sentinel heroes and were short by 7 willpower. Second turn, same thing and we were short by 10 willpower. Gandalf/Elrond guy threats out.

Reset the quest. Play maximum willpower and quest with everyone first turn. Short by 7 willpower, then the 7 enemies wreck us. GG on turn 1 and it's not even close. I haven't had such an unsatisfying pair of games since Battle of Carn Dum. I like the concept of the quest, but will probably never play it 4 player again. I imagine 1 or 2 player is much more manageable.

Reset the quest. Play maximum willpower and quest with everyone first turn. Short by 7 willpower, then the 7 enemies wreck us. GG on turn 1 and it's not even close.

Did you happen to get hit by Savage Attack in both games? I can see that card being tough in 4 player.

Otherwise, I did a little math and the average amount of threat you'll turn up in that quest in 4 cards (including surge) is around 7-8. Add that to the initial 4 threat in the staging area and you should expect 11-12 on turn 1. The objective heroes start with 8, so you probably need to play 6+ willpower of allies down on turn 1 to be comfortable. I think a good strategy then is to have three players load up on 2 cost/2 WP allies that they can play turn 1. The fourth player goes with a secrecy lore deck running Risk Some Light and Out of the Wild/Door is Closed to get rid of the Savage Attacks, as well as some healing.

After a couple of games against the first quest with Aragorn/Legolas/Gimli, both narrow wins, I tried the Desert Crossing. Survived the first two stages, but was too weak to fight off the creature in the final stage. This is definitely the "you'd better be packing healing" box. Lore is my least-played sphere, so this cycle looks like time to address that.

Reset the quest. Play maximum willpower and quest with everyone first turn. Short by 7 willpower, then the 7 enemies wreck us. GG on turn 1 and it's not even close.

Did you happen to get hit by Savage Attack in both games? I can see that card being tough in 4 player.

Otherwise, I did a little math and the average amount of threat you'll turn up in that quest in 4 cards (including surge) is around 7-8. Add that to the initial 4 threat in the staging area and you should expect 11-12 on turn 1. The objective heroes start with 8, so you probably need to play 6+ willpower of allies down on turn 1 to be comfortable. I think a good strategy then is to have three players load up on 2 cost/2 WP allies that they can play turn 1. The fourth player goes with a secrecy lore deck running Risk Some Light and Out of the Wild/Door is Closed to get rid of the Savage Attacks, as well as some healing.

We did get one savage attack, but had a Test of Will. Both games we drew a Jungle Trail and its 4 threat. I know we had a Fear of Mordor that basically negated all of our allies. Then pretty much every other card is 2+ threat, and an overgrown or 2 added even more threat. One Jungle Trail negates the excess willpower of the heroes, so then you are counting entirely on the allies. Maybe if everyone plays a 2 WP ally and you get a lucky draw you could make progress on turn 1, but then you are going to get wrecked by the enemies. We certainly didn't have a lot of willpower from our allies. I was playing a combat deck, so had no willpower. I think the other decks had a combined ~4 WP of allies, which meant we had almost no chance.

I suspect the quest could be beaten if we had prepared specifically for it, but that is very difficult to coordinate in 4 player. We certainly didn't have the best decks to go against it. I think this quest falls into a category with quests like Journey to Rhosgobel where a lot of standard decks just don't work.

You caught the part in the rules about undefended attacks going on heroes in the staging area right? When I played solo I just quested with everyone for the first few rounds and just ignored those 1-attack enemies.

I do see why this would be harder in multiplayer, but it is a difficulty 7, which to me means you shouldn't be able to bring 4 uncoordinated decks against it.

Yeah, I knew about the undefended attacks thing. The problem is when you get 3 and 4 attack enemies and all of your characters are questing.

It's just a hard quest that doesn't work too well with 4 players. It's not the first and it won't be the last.

There are some spoilers over at CGDB that clarify some of the above points. Objective heroes collect neutral resources apparently and the quest cards state that the first card played each phase does not require a resource match.

Psychorocka, no worries at all. I'm still hyped as heck for this box and the subsequent cycle. I also do hold some hope we will see Half Trolls eventually, hopefully as the main enemy of an AP, or maybe even just one or two like the were-wolves, though I would like if there were many more. I'm also extremely hyped for a Harad trait deck in particular.

Only somewhat related but I just got my hands on Nightmare Treason of Isengard and the Nightmare version of Road to Isengard features a half orc enemy which is pretty **** cool. Gives us hope that we will see Half Trolls and/or Olog Hai eventually!

There are some spoilers over at CGDB that clarify some of the above points. Objective heroes collect neutral resources apparently and the quest cards state that the first card played each phase does not require a resource match.

Psychorocka, no worries at all. I'm still hyped as heck for this box and the subsequent cycle. I also do hold some hope we will see Half Trolls eventually, hopefully as the main enemy of an AP, or maybe even just one or two like the were-wolves, though I would like if there were many more. I'm also extremely hyped for a Harad trait deck in particular.

Only somewhat related but I just got my hands on Nightmare Treason of Isengard and the Nightmare version of Road to Isengard features a half orc enemy which is pretty **** cool. Gives us hope that we will see Half Trolls and/or Olog Hai eventually!

Can I see him pretty please?

I'll get full spoilers up on my blog for all three quests eventually but just for now......