Who moves what and when.........

Presumably the First Player would make his adjustments first and then the Second Player could make his.

Presumably the First Player would make his adjustments first and then the Second Player could make his.

That would be correct. First player effects trigger before second player effects if there's ever a shared trigger.

Easy one, as has been said above, its first player first...

Obligatory Rules Quote:


RRG, Page 5, "Effect Use and Timing"

• If both players have effects with the same timing, the first player resolves all of his effects with that timing first.

I agree I would go with first player..... but I can see a potential counter.....

"Effect use and timing" state that no card effect can be used in setup apart from objective card effects. Which "could" be used to argue that these cards "stand outside" the rules as written in the "Effects use and timing", if they fail to follow one rule how do you know they follow the rest. Pedantic but.....you could also follow with....

Set up is specifically designed at each step to offset the advantage of first player. Second player getting first choice on laying obsticals and player one having to lay ships first. So if you follow the spirt of the set up rules (ignoring the Effects use and timing rules as above) you would potentially give second player the choice of whichever is more beneficial to them.

As I said I'm going for play one personally..... But my brain does love to argue with itself (in some kind of constant and strange self evaluation).

Well, here's the deal you have to accept:

Either the Upgrade Card Works.

Or the Upgrade Card Does Not Work.

In this Case... The Golden Rule Gives us the permission for it to work .

Because the Upgrade Card specifically tells us when to use it, it overrwrites the base rules of No Upgrade cards.

Because the other rule interpretation goes: "I'm Sorry. We both took Grav Shift Reroute. But We're totally not allowed to use them at all. So we wasted points."

Therefore, we accept that it works, and then, we look at the timing:

No Other Timing is Specified. Ergo, you must default to the Rules as written, with the single exception of the Upgrade Card being used during Setup......

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But honestly. The First Player is placing his Ship First.

The First Player is Moving First.

Why is it such a big deal to have the First Player place a Token First?>

To have the First Player move Obstacles first in the case that they've both taken them? Because if the Second Player is smart, he could be placing to just move them back... OR, the First Player is simply moving them to avoid the second player doing anything... Its a Null Set.

The entire game has been thought out with the subject of who gets Priority... The First Player gets Priority in almost all cases........ The Trade off for that, is Objective Selection and a tangible benefit for the Objectives to the Second Player...

That's it.

Its fair.

You can't look at one section of the rules and go "that unbalances"... You have to look at the whole game...

Dras I would love to agree with you but unfortunately I'm British which means I'm no longer allowed to agree with a solid facts based argument produced by people who know what they are talking about...... instead I'm constitutionally required to argue and disagree until mutual self distruction Occurs or we both resign and move to la la land.

Other than that (but only theoretically mind) your argument is sound.

Oh. Well, that's okay then. Thankyou for clearing that up.

I don't have to reply to a Pom at all

Because, you see. I'm Australian .

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In all honesty, I respect questioning, and I respect discussion, and this has been interesting...

It highlights some of the core contexts - if you've got a dichotemous argument and one of the results is "the game does not work", then a useful default is the other side...

I don't have to reply to a Pom at all

Oh. Well, that's okay then. Thankyou for clearing that up.

I don't have to reply to a Pom at all

Because, you see. I'm Australian .

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In all honesty, I respect questioning, and I respect discussion, and this has been interesting...

It highlights some of the core contexts - if you've got a dichotemous argument and one of the results is "the game does not work", then a useful default is the other side...

I don't have to reply to a Pom at all

I love to love a bit of digging into ideas.....and....

Dras it's fine don't worry..... I forgive you for neighbours, I'm struggling a bit with home and away but " with my Gandy like soul" I will get there

I forgive you for Neighbours, I'm struggling a bit with Home and Away ....

Do like we do, change channels.

I don't think I ever actually watched an episode of either show....

... Now, Kingswood Country... That I was forced to watch as a kid....

I don't think I ever actually watched an episode of either show....

... Now, Kingswood Country... That I was forced to watch as a kid....

I don't know that one is it like The Sullivans.

*sips ice tea and watches the faux fight* this is entertaining.

Back on topic. Remember that all upgrade cards modify the rules in some way. Gunnery Teams, Demolisher, Slaved Turrets, etc. That's what they do. So Grav Shift does the same thing. It modifies the rules.

The one major caveat to going second is that if first player could move the obstacles completely out of range of the other token, second player will not get to rearrange them as they are no longer in range of their token.

I don't think I ever actually watched an episode of either show....

... Now, Kingswood Country... That I was forced to watch as a kid....

Not the Kingswood!!

I could say more, but that would get me into so much trouble.

Please please tell me what kings wood is.......

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Holden_Kingswood

and thus

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kingswood_Country

So it's kind of like "till death do us part" which is condisidered so vile that I think the BBC ( an upstanding moral bastion) may have destroyed all the copies.