Omega Leader.

I know, not the subject of this thread

Not technically true, remember, I'm factoring in total squads. Omega, so far as I've seen, has been fairly popular with Defender builds as he offers a "damned if you do, damned if you don't" option for everyone's favorite game of Who Do I Have To Close Against?

Okay, let me be more specific. Saying things like "This will happen, so this ship will die" which is then countered by "no this will happen", which can then be countered by "then this ship will do this" are not very useful ways to discuss things

And now you fully understand the title of the thread.

But I figured it would be a fun way to have everyone get together to talk strategy, while at the same time delving into specific builds and combos for either ship without starting separate threads for every build.

Two big things we gotta get on the table before we can accurately determine how the ARC will fare

1.) Bb8

ARCs are probably the single greatest platform for bb8.

They have 6 greens (apparently no 3 green foward but use Nien if you're desperate)

More importantly, they have an aux arc so they don't HAVE to waste rounds and shutting the beloved droid down with a red K

Plus you can stuff it with an int agent to infuriate your opponent

2.) Tail Gunner

It seems awesome, but we're working with one less red here (norra compensates with pseud ATC if you run her that way)

3.) The two of them on the same Arc

The bb8 ARC could be a real pain in the ass at the hands of someone practiced with it

There's also Heroes of the Resistance crew (and one astro) to keep our eyes on

More importantly, they have an aux arc so they don't HAVE to waste rounds and shutting the beloved droid down with a red K

Though they would go about it in vastly different ways, I imagine ARCs are as good or better at disengaging than Defenders are (though perhaps not as good as an x7 Defender, or specifically an x7 Ryad). But there're a lot of options when you have a rear arc (Firespray lovers know I speak the truth).

but even firespray lovers have to admit that the large base can be a REAL pain in the ass to work with

less so the small based ARC

but even firespray lovers have to admit that the large base can be a REAL pain in the ass to work with

less so the small based ARC

Yup. Especially if the ARC will have a green or white 2 or 3 bank. Those are very good for weaving between asteroids. Get that extra defense die, and likely still be able to shoot at someone. Might not kill 'em, but you might hurt them or sap a token so they can't modify the attack.

You know, if the 1 agi is going to be wiped away by a tractor beam anyway, why not go ahead and kill it yourself? Toss in an Expose. .

If you could set your squad up to pass around dice modifiers of course.

The Old Fogeys

You know, if the 1 agi is going to be wiped away by a tractor beam anyway, why not go ahead and kill it yourself? Toss in an Expose. .

If you could set your squad up to pass around dice modifiers of course.

because, no matter what you do, expose sucks ass

it's a 0 point ept given all the crap it eats just to give you a red die

Truth be told, I'm just not a fan of the defender.. I'll take Echo over a Defender any day.

You know, if the 1 agi is going to be wiped away by a tractor beam anyway, why not go ahead and kill it yourself? Toss in an Expose. .

If you could set your squad up to pass around dice modifiers of course.

because, no matter what you do, expose sucks ass

it's a 0 point ept given all the crap it eats just to give you a red die

Unless it's on a Decimator.

You mean "even if it's on a Decimator"

That's 4 points of what could have been a TL or boost

Then there's EI taking up EUs spot...

Granted I love exposemators because no boost makes then trivial to murder but they don't make a good case for expose

It is an interesting match, but the ARC can only really be looked at with upgrades and support craft taken into account.

Which.....is fair enough, to be honest.

There is no generic ARC-170 pilot, but given Bramm's cost, it'd be in the generic X-wing/B-wing price range. The TIE Defender costs nearly 1/3 again the price, and whilst (like the B-wing) the ARC-170 is all about it's many interacting upgrade slots, the TIE Defender can be a surprisingly simple and clean fighter - TIE/x7 title, EPT if you have one, good to go.

But...yeah. Things like pairing Thane with Biggs can seriously throw things into a loop. I agree expose isn't great, but R2-D6 Expose on Thane might be one of the first times I've genuinely considered it; getting to trigger that extra attack die for free when you can't be shot at anyway, and have already used your 'normal' action to target lock is a relatively scary prospect.

because no boost makes then trivial to murder but they don't make a good case for expose

a Boostless PWT is a dead meat PWT

or a blocker PWT >_>

The ARC has a lot of possibility for shenanigans. If aligned right, they could make a difficult enemy for a Defender. But, the Defender is a stout ship as well and can be configured to be a high speed tank or a heavy hitter.

The Tie/D option will be the ARC's biggest threat. Whether it has the Ion Cannon or the Tractor Beam, the Arc cannot afford to get hit by the first shot, so it has to spend what ever it takes to stop it, which could leave it vulnerable to the primary weapon attack that comes next.

On average, my money would be on the Defender, but the ARC does have good tools to turn the tide.

After actually using x7 with SD I'm pretty sure a basic defender could happily sit behind an arc and never get touched, seriously it was like using a fully modded fel.

Nah you'd need palp

Just canceling one damage a turn won't be enough

...what, you actually roll evades on those dice?

This is why Defenders need Lightning Reflexes, lawl.

Also I like running Death**** with Defender Pals.

Nah you'd need palp

Just canceling one damage a turn won't be enough

...what, you actually roll evades on those dice?

Nope I rolled eyeballs but I haz focus token.

Now that I've had numerous chances to actually fly this for real, my Defenders have absolutely smeared every ARC build I've come across. Feelsgoodman

And I've had the opposite experience...

Odd, maybe dice and relative flying skills matter in this game?

As a recent convert to X-Wing, I chose to fly Norra, Braylen, and Biggs because they looked simple to get the hang of. And I was right.

The earlier discussion about Tie/d killing ARCs might be true, but x7s are all I've seen at the 2 tournaments I've attended. But every game (including practice) I've played which had even 1 defender in, I've won quite easily.

What kills ARCs in my experience are: superior flying skills, and fast ships because they can't catch up - Corran and Miranda have been the hardest for me, but they still need to be flown well or I might have a chance.

See the great thing about using Biggs/Norra/Braylen is that the Defender meta is all /X7. TIE/D is actually kind of a threat to that list, but because nobody flies it, and if they do it's only one one ship, which is trivial to deal with, ARCs can kind of actually thrive under the protection of Biggs. X7s are annoying late game, but honestly, i have zero problem when dealing with Defenders. I 100-26'd a 2x X7 and Inquisitor list at my last tournament, and 100-0'd a 2x X7 and Bomber list.

The great thing is that i have at minimum one turn, usually 2-3, where i can throw dice at whatever i want with no reprisal to my ARCs. I usually strip shields off a Defender and double stress it turn one, then turn two Norra and Braylen finishes it off, and i can start on Defender #2. By the time Biggs is dead, 1 Defender is dead, the second is on it's way out, and the third ship is untouched. It's barely winnable for the Imperial player by then, cause imma kill that second defender, like, immediately. Then it's one X7 against a lightly damaged Braylen and a full health Norra, and that's actually unwinnable.

Even TIE/Ds dont entirely worry me, because i kill those even faster than X7s. Without the damage mitigation, it's possible that i could kill a Defender on turn 1, and all those shots just go into Biggs, the poor sap, as opposed to my lovely ARCs.

That's almost a word-for-word description of some of my games! I suspect that players who haven't played against ARCSs don't realise that they will be out-jousted until it's too late. If they approached carefully and stayed out of my firing arcs, then they might well win. But they don't - overconfidence, plus the reputation of x7s as being the best at jousting means that they lose.

That's almost a word-for-word description of some of my games! I suspect that players who haven't played against ARCSs don't realise that they will be out-jousted until it's too late. If they approached carefully and stayed out of my firing arcs, then they might well win. But they don't - overconfidence, plus the reputation of x7s as being the best at jousting means that they lose.

Literally my favorite thing of all time is when my opponent sets up in jousting formation, which most do... That tournament, the one player who beat me(a very good friend of mine who has played against me a lot) ran circles around me with Dash.

Thats the thing i do love about X-Wing, is that as of late, skill cannot be replaced with a good list. If those Defender lists didn't try running me down at the beginning, not expecting me to ACTUALLY breach their dice mods with my extremely efficient dice, they might have actually won. I doubt it because i have loads of contingencies for all kinds of scenarios(or i just have a huge ego) but, still, their chances would have been better.