The largest variety Rebels has is for 3 or 2 ship builds. Meaning yes, Rebels are expensive. Stuff that made 4 or 5 ship Rebels good in the past is not good now. I predict Paul Heaver will not fly 4-ship rebels at worlds this year.

You need viable ship builds in the 18-27 point range for a 4-ship build to be possible. FFG is not designing ships in this point range. (for Rebels or Scum)

[imperials are the exception]

In X-wing, the variety of GOOD ships and builds possible in the 30+ points range has grown very large.

The viable build variety in the less than 27 points range has greatly stagnated and, based on wave 9, won't be changing anytime soon.

A 5-ship Rebel build MUST contain Z-95's or A-wing's and build options on those less than 20 points are slim.

Scum has it even worse of course. The Z-95 is the only viable ship below 24 points. This is why the Fang Fighter generics better be costed correctly!

#fixthesyck #fixthekirhaxz

Palob with 3 Tansari Veterans says hi.

edit: And I would say attanie mindlink and the action economy that comes with it makes all the difference here. Which ironically makes you buy two uboots anyway. Add a party bus and you got that other strong scum list ;-)

So you're essentially saying the ARC pilots arent very good. None of their abilities are worth building around to counter the current meta. Good job ffg.

er no

I'm not saying the first half at all

second half, yes, none of their abilities counter both legs of the current meta

if jm5ks ever cease to hold such sway, though, you can definitely bring in the ARCs

Compared to the (non-overcosted) Bwing , it is only 1 point more when PS equivalent for +1 HP, aux arc, and a seemingly better dial. So it seems fairly efficient to me, but it does lack the cost savings of a generic pilot however.

The torpedo has a chance of being that counter to the jumpmasters that were teased by the designers so that is definitely a wild card.

And as was mentioned, the upgrade slots are quite and should make the ship competitive.

I don't think we can say that Rebels as a faction are too expensive, they have some really good ships in the 20-26 point range, they just happen to be of low pilot skill(mostly). I feel the cost of productive rebel aces is too high, or they fly ships that are too easily destroyed in the current meta.

ACTION triggers don't really seem like they'll counter jumpmasters

what they do remind of me, however, is ACTION bombs (conners!)

not to say they'll be conner torpedoes (how awesome would that be?), but when you do an ACTION upgrade that can do damage, you're introducing an upgrade that favors lower PS over higher PS (because you can launch it during a lower PS pilot's activation before higher PS ever get a chance to do anything )

if done right, that torp will be an ace counter

Can we all agree that few plays rebels because each ship is overpriced as in can't have proper upgrades. E-Wing, T-65, B-Wing, K-Wing all these ships needs a lower squadpoints so points can be used on upgrades instead, don't we all agree?

Next time you feel the "We All" urge... Go lay down..

We have a kid that could school you with how well he can drop mines with a couple of K-wings.

Okay, that came across pretty harsh.

This is a great game and in the last moth we have seen a major shift to rebalancing and in my opinion deserve more credit than they get. So seeing stuff on fix this and fix that is only normal... Someone has to whine... but to speak as if you speak for everyone is just disrespectful. So my comments on the subject in turn sank to that same level and I do apologize.

**** me. Overpriced? Where the hell were you a few months ago when Paul Heaver's Worlds List bestrode the land causing perturbation and despair?

Rebels aren't bloody overpriced. They're just in a weird spot in the meta right now where the proliferation of U-Boats is a direct counter to some of their best ships and tricks. This too shall pass. The wheel turns, and when something comes along that makes ordnance Jumpies less ubiquitous we'll be drowning in Stresshogs and Rebel Regen again, never fear.

Yes, THIS. From Wave 3 through 7.5.

And extra points for the use of "bestrode".

Rebels are fat and full of upgrade slots.

every upgrade slot is +1-2-3 pts

I don't know what Wave you're living in, but pricing hasnt been done like that since Wave 2 . FFG quickly realized that pricing for upgrades is dumb as hell. Namely because if those upgrade slots go unfilled, you're spending points for something you're not using, AND it makes actually filling those slots harder because you have less points to work with as a result.

Certain upgrade slots and combinations of upgrade slots will cost points, and you can't just have a ton of upgrade slots without spending the points for them, but each upgrade slot is NOT in fact worth a point each. Warpman, you continue to astound me just how little you actually understand how the game works.

Scum Z vs Rebel Z says "still the same"

1 PS = 1 upgrade icon.

The reasoning behind pricing got a bullet to the head the day Attack Shuttle was released.

And we do not know the formula. The way it "should" be is not the way it is. That's the only thing we know.

IT'S A 12 POINT SHIP! IT HAS ONE MORE HP(TWO OF THOSE HP ARE SHIELDS) THAN A TIE FIGHTER AND ONE LESS AGILITY! YOU CAN ALSO MOUNT A MISSILE!

IT'S THE CHEAPEST SHIP IN THE GAME! HOW CAN YOU BASE YOUR ENTIRE ARGUMENT OFF OF THE SINGULAR EXCEPTION?!

Because it's a perfect example.

We have two Z-95s, both are dirt-cheap, can mount missiles.

But one has Illicit slot and PS1 and the other PS2 and no extra slot. Stop butthurting and open your eyes.

We're not getting a better example of how the pricing works.

Other comparisons? Naked HWK.

Rebel has PS2 and Merc equivalent has PS1+Illicit.

I'm not going to compare it to TIE\ln because they have different stats, different slots, different dials and PSes.

You may now revert to caps-spitting.

Aaaaaaand Warpman is added to my ignore list.

Man, it's like the forum's average IQ just raised by 30 points.

You clearly have ZERO understanding of the costing involved in X-Wing, and only feel content in trying to prove me wrong by listing all the costing mistakes FFG make early on in the game, that they have since realized and not made the same mistakes.

And another dude fails miserably in understanding how pricing works.

WIth zero understanding how anything works nor how it should work, turning a blind eye on facts.

Just because being a faction fan makes you blind to anything you don't want to hear.

Off you go.

There is no more formula to pricing, it maybe starts out as that, but in the end prices evolve with playtesting now.

The Z-95/HWK PS difference isn't really warranted. FFG didn't want it to look as if those ships were flat out better than their rebel counterparts, so they bumped down PS.

Starviper wants a word with "playtesters" and 'evolving" price.

Just as E-wing once wanted, you know. Because, frankly, it seems cost of every stat point and upgrades increases with every other stat increase, hence overpriced 3-3 ships that never ever see use. Playtestings? Kidding, right?

Didn't say the process was good, but its clear and well known that FFG has abolished the use of any formulae unlike Attack Wing. You also mention examples from a few waves back when there wasn't much experience. Recently most releases at least weren't outrageous, the Scyck title being the only offender.

Can't say that, though. Recent releases pushed almost all previous builds back, and that's most easily understood as unsubtle powercreep.

MJ even had graphs of "how many vanilla(without W6+) builds were present in Worlds"

In short: little to none.

let's just wait for Worlds and see the new picture, shall we?

And telling the truth, I doubt we can call them inexperienced .

FFG please nerf JimbonX . Way over costed for his forum efficiency, who the hell play tested this guy? A pasty?

to an extent i'd have to agree. They have some good stuff but they have the most overpriced ships of all 3 factions. Or ships that simply cant do anything but raw dice.

They also love the random torpedo slot. ENOUGH WITH THE RANDOM TORPEDO SLOT! nobody every f'ing uses it. Missiles sometimes get used because ion missiles or prockets are cheap and easy to pull off without ordnance shenanigans. Torpedos are not.

And the 1agi small ship thing is getting old.

Its not a "random" torpedo slot. Its there because these ships have torpedo launchers. Yeah maybe it doesnt get used much but the it was never added because "hey lets give this x-wing a torpedo which it SHOWN IN THE FILMS AS USING for no reason other than to be random !"

I mean, it's bad enough that we have to pay for the first bell. Making us pay extra for the rebells is insane!

I mean, it's bad enough that we have to pay for the first bell. Making us pay extra for the rebells is insane!

by George, he did it!

And all these "overcosted" rebel ships have at least 3 shields and are almost impossible to 1 shot so quit your whining.

And all these "overcosted" rebel ships have at least 3 shields and are almost impossible to 1 shot so quit your whining.

And Soontir isn't? I havent one-shot a Soontir Fel EVER. What about Vader? same HP as an X-Wing but has 3 AGI, and also has an evade action. ATC also gives it an X-Wing offense(technically better, because you're guaranteed a crit) for one point, as long as you get a TL, which at PS 9 and the fact that it's Vader is easy. I cannot recall a time where i have oneshot any Palp Ace. Many many times i have gone the whole game without putting damage on one.

But you. You're guaranteed damage. Rebel ships can't dodge, in the defensive sense or the arc dodging sense. So i may have more HP, but you'll find my ships universally die faster. Regen was the ONLY THING that gave Rebel ships similar survivability. Of course, Imperial players spend all their time complaining about Regen and how bad it is for the game. I may not agree with everything that ParaGoombaslayer says, but his whole thing about Imperial greed strikes me as very true. Imp players lost the ability to complain about Regen once Palp became standard issue for every imperial list.

Imperials have such insane defensive modding that these glass cannons are now effectively more durable than any Rebel ship available.

One of the problem with heavily shielded, low agility ships is that they get punished by plasma torpedoes, which are the most popular thing to run on jumpmasters. And the rebels happen to have a lot of heavily shielded, low agility ships. Go figure.

One of the problem with heavily shielded, low agility ships is that they get punished by plasma torpedoes, which are the most popular thing to run on jumpmasters. And the rebels happen to have a lot of heavily shielded, low agility ships. Go figure.

That and they tend to have poor maneuverability, which is punished by Imp Aces. Also go figure.

Imperials have such insane defensive modding that these glass cannons are now effectively more durable than any Rebel ship available.

So I guess we need to start calling them transparasteel cannons.