The B-wing is probably fairly costed, it's simply in a bad place right now due to the under-costing of Jumpmasters. Assuming four hits from two JM5K plasma torpedoes, the only possible way to survive is to roll evades on both of your dice, and hope there's no Direct Hit crit. Even if the Jumps miss with one shot (against the odds, but possible), blanking out on both dice is still very likely. Even without that you're basically left on one hit point, easy fodder for a turret with one of the best dials in the game.

The Rebels in general though do have an issue at the moment.

- Scum have massive offence in the form of Jumpmasters, with reasonable defence and good maneuverability.

- Imp aces have massive defence and maneuverability, with OK offence.

- The Rebels... well, most of their ships are low- to mid-range defensively, but this is inadequate against torpedoes. They have a severe maneuver deficit (A-wings and super-Dash excepted). And they're merely OK on offence - which is inadequate against Aces, and doesn't do damage fast enough against Jumpmasters.

At the moment there are definitely rebel builds that can take on aces. And there are definitely rebel builds that can take on Jumpmasters. But there are very few options if you want to be able to take on both of them, and those options just aren't as good overall.

Rebels used to be at the top due to regen. BUT in our new alphastrike/mass-damage world, regen helps very little if you are blasted into oblivion. Then these old ships also tend to have too low pilot skill. Uboats ps3, BBBBZ ps2... Pilot-skill powercreep

The problem is basically BBBBZ doesn't have a strong enough jousting ability to overcome the inherent problems low PS ships have with aces. The good imperial aces also happen to be excellent jousters themselves in many situations and jumpmasters kinda skew things.

The plasma torpedoes are extremely good against B-wings and they will routinely drop a B-wing in two hits but it's not 100% unwinnable with a jousting list like that.

Their 30-ish point range definitly is oversaturated with crap. I wouldn't mind a few atractive ships there in a similar light as the Inquisitor or Omega Leader. Actually the same goes for scum, its something that makes listbuilding a lot easier for the Empire right now.

i like that empire has pocket aces/micro aces or whatever you want to call them while rebels go big with wedge and poe etc

the problem is it in a lot of cases it doesnt feel like the points you spend really pay off vs real empire aces/scum large base powerhouses/etc, and then you cant win on the cheap end either because tie/crack swarm is just better. im not saying oh boo hoo rebels suck, im just saying wheres the 8 point ackbar crew that messes with things globally to an absurdly outsized degree for his cost like palp

(or jabba. i want jabba.)

even a raw Omega Leader would give a decked out Wedge issues. Wedge might win in the end...barely.

I mean, rebels thematically have more expensive ships because they have way less people, so they need their ships to be expensive and good in order to win. The expensive trait is in xwing, the good part doesnt feel like it.

Look at the basic TIE and Xwing. Movement-wise, Ties are always getting behind xwings so the xwing being less nimble is fine. But an Xwing is also prone to 1shot TIE Fighters with ease when he DOES get arc on them and easily take a few potshots in return. THAT is not in this game, as TIE Fighters are barely less durable due to green dice mechanics and often take a heavy blow and still float away somehow.

But price-wise, they fit. An Xwing is basically two TIEs in cost, 3 if you go with the dirt cheap academies vs Wedge and still some extra. An Xwing in the fluff would rip all 3 of those TIEs apart the moment he got a shot at them, and a good pilot (wedge) wouldnt miss. On the tabletop though the xwing is automatically dead unless some severe dice gods favor him.

I imagine the issue is early balancing between 2 and 3 stats. Its hard to properly balance things with low numbers. Thats why D20 based games tend to be less RNG based despite being dice games still.

It always bugs me how you build a list and want to put interesting upgrades on them but they add up so fast that you can't fit what you like in a 100 point list. It's like the game advertises all these cool little additions you can use to spice up your list but in the end you have to cherry pick the most important ones and settle for those.

125 pt would be fun

It doesn't really solve anything. You run into the same problem, where you spend those 25 points tacking on upgrades then find yourself losing to people that better spent their additional points on more economically and efficient combos.

Rebels have always had a problem with the vast majority of their aces being too expensive and the base versions of their ships costing enough that you're getting ace level ship counts out of low PS builds. This has been true since Wave 1 XXXY where almost any combo of upgrades (or better pilots) brought you crashing down to a 3 ship build.

Right now their issues are almost entirely a result of the Jumpmaster taking all of their cute, but overcosted little multiple ship combos and slapping them on a single ship without a single unique card to keep from spamming it. The Jumpmaster alone basically does all of the things Rebels have ever tried to do better and without the ability to take out specific models to interrupt the synergy.

The cost of terrorism is high, were you a law abiding citizen things would be better for you.

Can we all agree that few plays rebels because each ship is overpriced as in can't have proper upgrades. E-Wing, T-65, B-Wing, K-Wing all these ships needs a lower squadpoints so points can be used on upgrades instead, don't we all agree?

Eh, not really. Now to unpack that...

1) from what I see, there is no shortage of Rebel players, and many of the people I know that are currently playing non-rebel are playing Scum, and just because they've been playing Rebel for a good while and want something new.

2) Many of the ones I see carry about as many upgrades as needed, and they still manage 3-5 ship lists. And when they don't, it's usually a short-stack.

3) We all know that if the ships were cheaper, then people would just use the space to fit another ship into a Rebel Regen list anyway, which is not something we need at the moment. Or... you know... ever.

to an extent i'd have to agree. They have some good stuff but they have the most overpriced ships of all 3 factions. Or ships that simply cant do anything but raw dice.

They also love the random torpedo slot. ENOUGH WITH THE RANDOM TORPEDO SLOT! nobody every f'ing uses it. Missiles sometimes get used because ion missiles or prockets are cheap and easy to pull off without ordnance shenanigans. Torpedos are not.

And the 1agi small ship thing is getting old.

If that Action Torpedo is something like "Seeker Torpedo" and has the target roll some number of red dice and take any hits or crits rolled then I have a feeling that the Rebels will be loving those torpedo tubes that are almost standard issue.

I don't get why we're discussing Bs and Xs as if they were at all relevant to the ARC

apart from the low agility, they couldn't be more diffierent

the ARC isn't a simple jouster (**** thing has aux arcs!) and it wasn't made to be. It's an upgrade platform that can be built to perform many tasks, from guaranteed stress dealing to regenerating tank to glass cannon damage dealer etc. With bb-8, it can even be pretty mobile

now, the problems with expensive 1 agility ships, given all the plasma torps whistling around the table top, stand and are duly noted

the problems with jousters being crappy do not , because the ARC simply isn't a simple jouster

Shooting out the ass only matters if you live long enough, I doubt either the arc or cog will both seem pretty easy to kill.

Shooting out the ass only matters if you live long enough, I doubt either the arc or cog will both seem pretty easy to kill.

unless you're running v torp scouts, they'll last a round

two with biggs

much more with bb-8 shenanigans or regeneration, but that's basically just norra

It always bugs me how you build a list and want to put interesting upgrades on them but they add up so fast that you can't fit what you like in a 100 point list. It's like the game advertises all these cool little additions you can use to spice up your list but in the end you have to cherry pick the most important ones and settle for those.

125 pt would be fun

And then the lists with the extra ship instead of the upgrades would win!

It always bugs me how you build a list and want to put interesting upgrades on them but they add up so fast that you can't fit what you like in a 100 point list. It's like the game advertises all these cool little additions you can use to spice up your list but in the end you have to cherry pick the most important ones and settle for those.

125 pt would be fun

And then the lists with the extra ship instead of the upgrades would win!

I think that the higher the points go the percentage of points spent on ships instead of upgrades probably increases. In epic, two Alphas are usually going to be better than one Soontir. In a 100 point match it's the other way around.

thats because in 100pt games people build around expecting no more than 3 sources of damage. Soontir or any Ace for that matter are VERY good at dodging damage from 2 sources but usually the third tags them unless the raw dice love them today. Thats where their arc-dodging comes in, preventing at least that third source of damage.

In epic play you cant do that. Theres far too many sources of damage. Ive gotten far more milage out of running several penny-cheap interceptors than Soontir/Jax and just go full **** speed, fire my 3-4 attacks, and wonder if i can kturn to try again before i die.

In fact not many of the normal pilots in 100pt games are all that amazing in epic. Because of the mass of ships.

Which is one of the reasons the TIE Swarm, even w/o crack or howlie, is potent. 2-3 TIEs wont do anything but the rest WILL do something and quite a bit.

I will say FFG feels like they're really really careful when they design rebel stuff. Maybe something that wows me will show up in heroes of the resistance or some other odd pack, but that's been my impression in the last few waves for them.

Honestly if you want to play some epic take 12 TLTs.

Another day, another set of demands from JimbonX?

Rebels are STUPID and put pointless Torpedoes in 90% of their ships. LOL!

Rebels are fat and full of upgrade slots.

every upgrade slot is +1-2-3 pts

Another day, another set of demands from JimbonX?

If FFG hired me I would fix their game instead poting about it here...

Aha, we heard that already a hundred times

make "rebel only -3 pts torp refit"

Aha, we heard that already a hundred times

make "rebel only -3 pts torp refit"

Why rebel only? Small ship only would be good, an apply also to Starviper. But -3 pts is way too much. -1 would be ok. fielding 5 T65 seems fine to me