For Mutual Destruction, you don't even roll dice, just compare the printed attack value of all ships...

No, they've just ordered their sentences really poorly. "each player adds together the printed, unmodified primary weapon value of all ships in his or her squad" is clearly meant to be an alternative to "each player adds together the printed, unmodified primary weapon value of his or her remaining, undestroyed ships"

OK, well if that's what they meant, it is indeed very poorly written and unclear... especially since it's so easy to just add "..., then each player rolls that combined number of dice" or something to that effect.

Serious question what is the problem with ID'S?

To me? Not a darn thing. It rewarded players that usual had a tougher road. But people's heads exploded over it because apparently the point of going to a premier event is to play games and not worry about winning the event.

While the new way to eliminate 'draws' is certainly getting the most attention - there are a number of relatively BIG things, here.

• Specifically calling out a process for dealing with damaged/lost parts during an event (curious they felt this was necessary)
• They have now officially banned 'taking notes' during a match!
• Final 'elimination' round has a time cap on it, now (no longer untimed)
• Maneuver templates are now legal (again) for use during round setup

Serious question what is the problem with ID'S?

To me? Not a darn thing. It rewarded players that usual had a tougher road. But people's heads exploded over it because apparently the point of going to a premier event is to play games and not worry about winning the event.

Well, remember that you can always concede if you've done well enough to make the final cut without having to play your last game.

I think the problem with the ID was always that there were plenty of instances where matchups were a determing factor players who were on the bubble and could take an ID to secure their spot because their opponent could as well. Meanwhile other players on the bubble were not only forced to play but were locked out by that situation.

--

With respect to Final Salvo, while it seems contrived, it seems like it was intended to create an imbalance so that it is always in the best interest of one player to bring the game to a conclusion.

You don't see how the Virginia Regional left a bad taste in many people's mouths.

For Mutual Destruction, you don't even roll dice, just compare the printed attack value of all ships...

You still roll dice, you roll all dice for your whole squad, instead of the last ships remaining.

Page 14:

• Mutual Destruction: At the end of a game round, all of both players’ ships are destroyed.

Players follow the rules for “Final Salvo” on page 15 using all of their ships to

determine the winner.

Page 15:

Final Salvo

If both players have the same score at the end of a game, they must fire a Final Salvo to

determine the winner. To fire a Final Salvo, each player adds together the printed, unmodified

primary weapon value of his or her remaining, undestroyed ships and rolls attack dice equal to

that number. The player who rolls the highest total number of combined hits and critical hits

wins the game. If both players roll an equal number hits and critical hits, they roll again until a

winner is determined.

If a game ends in mutual destruction, each player adds together the printed, unmodified primary

weapon value of all ships in his or her squad.

OK, yeah, I guess it's implied since it's a "salvo" but still, never hurts to be extra precise in the wording.

While the new way to eliminate 'draws' is certainly getting the most attention - there are a number of relatively BIG things, here.

• Specifically calling out a process for dealing with damaged/lost parts during an event (curious they felt this was necessary)
• They have now officially banned 'taking notes' during a match!
• Final 'elimination' round has a time cap on it, now (no longer untimed)
• Maneuver templates are now legal (again) for use during round setup

Maneuver templates were never banned. People always assumed they were Because of wording, but i never read it as that.

While the new way to eliminate 'draws' is certainly getting the most attention - there are a number of relatively BIG things, here.

• Specifically calling out a process for dealing with damaged/lost parts during an event (curious they felt this was necessary)
• They have now officially banned 'taking notes' during a match!
• Final 'elimination' round has a time cap on it, now (no longer untimed)
• Maneuver templates are now legal (again) for use during round setup

A lot of that was just cross posted along the various game lines.

• They have now officially banned 'taking notes' during a match!

I missed this. What language are you referring to?

I presume there's nothing wrong with taking notes before and after a match regarding the composition of your opponent's list and the resulting MoV?

While the new way to eliminate 'draws' is certainly getting the most attention - there are a number of relatively BIG things, here.

• Specifically calling out a process for dealing with damaged/lost parts during an event (curious they felt this was necessary)
• They have now officially banned 'taking notes' during a match!
• Final 'elimination' round has a time cap on it, now (no longer untimed)
• Maneuver templates are now legal (again) for use during round setup

Battle reports will be more of a memory test now. Should make for some fun big fish stories.

Doesn't say you can't take pictures. Those aren't notes, right?

For Mutual Destruction, you don't even roll dice, just compare the printed attack value of all ships...

You still roll dice, you roll all dice for your whole squad, instead of the last ships remaining.

Page 14:

• Mutual Destruction: At the end of a game round, all of both players’ ships are destroyed.

Players follow the rules for “Final Salvo” on page 15 using all of their ships to

determine the winner.

Page 15:

Final Salvo

If both players have the same score at the end of a game, they must fire a Final Salvo to

determine the winner. To fire a Final Salvo, each player adds together the printed, unmodified

primary weapon value of his or her remaining, undestroyed ships and rolls attack dice equal to

that number. The player who rolls the highest total number of combined hits and critical hits

wins the game. If both players roll an equal number hits and critical hits, they roll again until a

winner is determined.

If a game ends in mutual destruction, each player adds together the printed, unmodified primary

weapon value of all ships in his or her squad.

OK, yeah, I guess it's implied since it's a "salvo" but still, never hurts to be extra precise in the wording.

I agree it could have been worded more clearly on page 15, but it is still clear you roll dice.

• They have now officially banned 'taking notes' during a match!

I missed this. What language are you referring to?

I presume there's nothing wrong with taking notes before and after a match regarding the composition of your opponent's list and the resulting MoV?

They added a whole section for it. Page 12 (-ish?)

"Players cannot take notes or reference outside material or information during a tournament round"

(emphasis mine)

Serious question what is the problem with ID'S?

Intentional Draws exist in games where drawing intentionally can't be policed: they can't stop players colluding to maintain their positions so they embrace it.

Draws are so phenomenally rare in X-Wing that introducing intentional draws was pretty much all downside: it added legal intentional drawing to a game that didn't have illegal intentional drawing.

After the community backlash they looked at the games where this was the case and decided to simply remove drawing altogether. It's so rare that a game ends on a simultaneous kill (which requires two ships to have shots on each other, the same PS and both kill each other) or goes to time with equal points (usually takes a mirror match) that it was easier to just remove draws entirely.

Serious question what is the problem with ID'S?

To me? Not a darn thing. It rewarded players that usual had a tougher road. But people's heads exploded over it because apparently the point of going to a premier event is to play games and not worry about winning the event.

Well, remember that you can always concede if you've done well enough to make the final cut without having to play your last game.

I think the problem with the ID was always that there were plenty of instances where matchups were a determing factor players who were on the bubble and could take an ID to secure their spot because their opponent could as well. Meanwhile other players on the bubble were not only forced to play but were locked out by that situation.

--

With respect to Final Salvo, while it seems contrived, it seems like it was intended to create an imbalance so that it is always in the best interest of one player to bring the game to a conclusion.

Doesn't say you can't take pictures. Those aren't notes, right?

Just turn up wearing a helmet-mounted videocam!

And then deciding the final outcome, by a roll of the dice?

You mean like the entire game is played?

Am I the only one who doesn't like Margin of Victory being before Strength of Schedule in the tiebreak?

I have never liked that either.

They changed it because Strength of Schedule is beyond your control and Margin of Victory is not.

Really?

You people can just see the upside? I would feel awful If i "won" in this fashion.

Id feel terrible for my opponent, who, has probably taken his time to get his list to work.

And then deciding the final outcome, by a roll of the dice?

Really? You think thats fair and good?

If so, i feel sorry for you.

Draw situations are generated by the dice anyway.

Taking Notes and Outside Material

Players cannot take notes or reference outside material or information during a tournament round.

However, players may reference official rule documents or game components that do not contain

hidden information at any time or ask a judge for clarification from official rule documents. Official

rule documents include all rules documents available on the X-Wing page of our website, those

found in an X-Wing product, or any portion thereof.

Does this mean it is forbidden to use for example info sheets with ship maneuvers?

And then deciding the final outcome, by a roll of the dice?

You mean like the entire game is played?

You are playing Yahtzee?

Im playing xwing Tyvm.

Serious question what is the problem with ID'S?

To me? Not a darn thing. It rewarded players that usual had a tougher road. But people's heads exploded over it because apparently the point of going to a premier event is to play games and not worry about winning the event.

Well, remember that you can always concede if you've done well enough to make the final cut without having to play your last game.

I think the problem with the ID was always that there were plenty of instances where matchups were a determing factor players who were on the bubble and could take an ID to secure their spot because their opponent could as well. Meanwhile other players on the bubble were not only forced to play but were locked out by that situation.

--

With respect to Final Salvo, while it seems contrived, it seems like it was intended to create an imbalance so that it is always in the best interest of one player to bring the game to a conclusion.

The people locked out were behind because they had already lost. So why reward that rather then reward someone that had been performing better up to that point.

And then deciding the final outcome, by a roll of the dice?

You mean like the entire game is played?

You are playing Yahtzee?

Im playing xwing Tyvm.

Which very often comes down to a die roll. "Okay, I need two Evades or I'm dead." "Two hits on that ship and I win." The Final Salvo is just another die roll. One pretty easily avoided in 99.999999999% of the games played.

• They have now officially banned 'taking notes' during a match!

I missed this. What language are you referring to?

Pretty sure it means you're not allowed to take notes in any language.

I mean, an exact tie is going to happen so rarely, it's like worrying about the clause in your homeowners' association rules about being fined if the ISS crashes on your lawn.

Tell that to the Guy next to me during the open series who unintentionally drew and therefore didnt make day two.

This would be much more heartbreaking to lose.

Serious question what is the problem with ID'S?

They gave me an incentive to drive to events and then not play.

AtomicFryingPan was part of the extended ID conversation several months ago, so he's familiar with the arguments even if h doesn't agree with them. Posting that question now isn't a request for information, it's putting a chip on his shoulder and daring you to knock it off.

Am I the only one who doesn't like Margin of Victory being before Strength of Schedule in the tiebreak?

I have never liked that either.

Strength of Schedule is only weakly correlated with actual player skill, and in a just and rational world, it wouldn't appear in the rules at all.

So in a game that meant to be about skill rather than just rolling dice the ideal solution to an ongoing structural problem is to pick up a bunch of dice(which arbitrarily penalises many builds) and roll them to find out who wins? This is a really dumb solution. If FFG are so dead set against draws being a thing- why not just remove the concept entirely and have players with identical scores/mutual destruction both count as losing the game? At least then its equally harsh rather than handing out a win on a coin toss equivalent, which wouldn't sit at all well with me if I was to win a game off the back of such an unfair system.

What exactly is the obsession with note taking and outside reference material? I don't see what advantage it provides, and it seems only marginally enforceable so what benefit does having strict rules on this bring to the game?