I think they've been (overly!) conservative because it's being introduced as a non-restricted upgrade.
It's pointless even comparing this to any "[ship] only" upgrades as those require less consideration of all possible combinations (current or future).
(don't get me wrong - I can't see myself using it as it stands)
Let's see, what else is unrestricted. . .
Predator, PtL, engine upgrade, auto thrusters, crack shot, vectored thrusters, etc etc. The common theme with all of these is that they're all infinitely better than R3.
it's a generic, action independent evade for sure and that could run away pretty quickly
but while you're right that it's overly conservative, it's really to an extent where it's basically a joke
we got
might as well have come with a primed thermal detonator given how likely you are to put it anywhere near your ships
Ironically, I chose to try out R3 on an X-wing in the Aturi Cluster campaign, and it so far has been a highly useful upgrade. TLT has been pretty worthless on my Y-wing, but R3 has done well at keeping the X alive. Naturally, this must be measured in reference to the fact that most opponent in HotAC are lower PS than the player, so R3 may prove more useful in casual gaming, but it may also have a place opposing TIE swarms.
The failure of the TLT has largely been due to dice plus tokens, but it seems that I can rely more on one focus coming up out of 3-4 dice on an X than I can on enough hits coming from 3 TLT dice to get past the 3 greens on TIE fighters. I know only one of those hits needs to get through, but it rarely seems to do so. Off exactly the same odds, an ion Y has been fairly consistent with hits.
Who knows, though. Maybe R3 is such a terrible upgrade that it has now turned my dice against me?
Ironically, I chose to try out R3 on an X-wing in the Aturi Cluster campaign, and it so far has been a highly useful upgrade. TLT has been pretty worthless on my Y-wing, but R3 has done well at keeping the X alive. Naturally, this must be measured in reference to the fact that most opponent in HotAC are lower PS than the player, so R3 may prove more useful in casual gaming, but it may also have a place opposing TIE swarms.
The failure of the TLT has largely been due to dice plus tokens, but it seems that I can rely more on one focus coming up out of 3-4 dice on an X than I can on enough hits coming from 3 TLT dice to get past the 3 greens on TIE fighters. I know only one of those hits needs to get through, but it rarely seems to do so. Off exactly the same odds, an ion Y has been fairly consistent with hits.
Who knows, though. Maybe R3 is such a terrible upgrade that it has now turned my dice against me?
TLT is broken in HotAC. It is so effective that you get usually double the amount of XP than any of your friends because of the amount of stray hits and kills it generates, soon allowing you to "pimp" you Y-wing to absurd levels.
it's a generic, action independent evade for sure and that could run away pretty quickly
but while you're right that it's overly conservative, it's really to an extent where it's basically a joke
we got
- RNG trigger (already a death-knell)
- once per round
- when attacking
- when attacking with a primary weapon, specifically
- cancel the required result
might as well have come with a primed thermal detonator given how likely you are to put it anywhere near your ships
Where do you get RNG trigger from
"Once per round, when atacking with a primary weapon, you may cancel 1 of your
(o) results during the "Modify Attack Dice" step to assign 1 evade token to your ship."
?
I proxied it during my Saturday games.
On Rookie Pilot (actually awesome vs. PS1 and saved them being gunned down). Excellent for mid-game bumper cars. Reasonable with Luke but didn't save him.
On Red Squadron Vet with Juke and Comms Relay (vs. PS5 Mindlink) - complete waste of points, Juke, Comms Relay etc.
On a Blackmoon Squadron, it's pathetic (as expected).
When PS is favourable, it does make X-Wings noticeably tougher, but I didn't play against toilet seats or palpbros.
It triggers about 2/3 of the time, and half the time you either have a junk roll anyway or three hits. Note that, all things being equal, FFG dice are slightly biased due to the marking indentations so the 58% you'd expect would never really be the case. R7 astromech is better on paper, but that's really not reliable either. For my money, Targeting Astromech is superior. There are niche areas where R3 works, more than earning its points but not what you want to build a list around.
Sort of like the difference between R5-P9 and R2-D2. In theory the one point is paid for by requiring the Focus; in practice you never actually get to use it because you're having the crap shot out of you.
Edited by Lampyridae
it's a generic, action independent evade for sure and that could run away pretty quickly
but while you're right that it's overly conservative, it's really to an extent where it's basically a joke
we got
- RNG trigger (already a death-knell)
- once per round
- when attacking
- when attacking with a primary weapon, specifically
- cancel the required result
might as well have come with a primed thermal detonator given how likely you are to put it anywhere near your ships
Where do you get RNG trigger from
"Once per round, when atacking with a primary weapon, you may cancel 1 of your
(o) results during the "Modify Attack Dice" step to assign 1 evade token to your ship."
?
one of your focus results
presumably, you need to have a focus result in your roll to cancel. that **** ain't guaranteed
hence RNG, unless you're Norra (in which case, you're just wasting her ability)
it's a generic, action independent evade for sure and that could run away pretty quickly
but while you're right that it's overly conservative, it's really to an extent where it's basically a joke
we got
- RNG trigger (already a death-knell)
- once per round
- when attacking
- when attacking with a primary weapon, specifically
- cancel the required result
might as well have come with a primed thermal detonator given how likely you are to put it anywhere near your ships
Where do you get RNG trigger from
"Once per round, when atacking with a primary weapon, you may cancel 1 of your
(o) results during the "Modify Attack Dice" step to assign 1 evade token to your ship."
?
one of your focus results
presumably, you need to have a focus result in your roll to cancel. that **** ain't guaranteed
hence RNG, unless you're Norra (in which case, you're just wasting her ability)
Ah, I thought you meant "Range." Yes, RNG is a problem. It was fairly reliable when I opted for TL over focus, but when you're down to one ship it invariably lets you down.
ner RNG is Random Number Generator, which is what you use in programming to simulate "randomness" when necessary
and it's less than half the characters of "random", which is too convenient for a lazy bastard such as myself
Would it make this thing any better if there was a t65 title that once per turn let you change any die to a focus? You'd still have to sacrifice the hit but it would take all guess work out of using this guy for one go. Because let's be frank, how many people use ordnance on an xwing? Hell you could even make the ability take up the torp slot and I don't think people would cry over it.
Edited by LordFajubiWould it make this thing any better if there was a t65 title that once per turn let you change any die to a focus? You'd still have to sacrifice the hit but it would take all guess work out of using this guy for one go. Because let's be frank, how many people use ordnance on an xwing? Hell you could even make the ability take up the torp slot and I don't think people would cry over it.
ner
because then you'd probably just be using the added reliability of the title instead of trying to shoe-horn it in with a horrible PS dependent upgrade that doesn't do diddly v higher PS (or same ps with initiative) pilots
True fickle, I want to find some use for this thing but outside coran I am just at a loss
True fickle, I want to find some use for this thing but outside coran I am just at a loss
trust me, it's just easier to pretend the cards come completely blank
you save yourself the headache, and the points 
as sad as I am for the complete waste of design space (esp at a time when rebels could have really used an upgrade to help v jumpmasters), I do prefer it being a completely garbage astromech rather than having a completely garbage ARC
Shara's ability comes close, but she's still better than Esege so eh (and can be run with bb-8 + ptl + int agent, so she might be able to give up her TL at a time when she wouldn't be shooting anyway due to being a massive pain in the ass blocker)
Edited by ficklegreendiceShara's ability still expects you to have an action. The main argument ive heard in defense of R3 is hes action independant which helps if you hit a rock or bump.
Shara would be useless in that situation.
R3 makes no sense. Yes comparing it to a title kinda makes little sense but its still bs that an RNG based upgrade similar to TWO titles costs more and competes for other already well known good upgrades. I'd rather have the Targeting Astromech over R2, even though you have to do a red move to get his effect at least i KNOW when i can depend on it. Actually got good use on him on a Wedge a few days ago.
Let's see, what else is unrestricted. . .
Predator, PtL, engine upgrade, auto thrusters, crack shot, vectored thrusters, etc etc. The common theme with all of these is that they're all infinitely better than R3.
I thought the common theme was that none of them were AstroMech, or that all of them were either EPT or Modifications.
[...] This really ticks me off, how Rebels are always so limited. [...]
Really? Don't you think we're getting a little upset over a game. If this is the worse problem you see this week I envy your life.
Meanwhile, Defenders get a free Evade for -2 points, without messing up their firepower.
I'm really curious, what incredibly broken synergies did the designers see, to make this so convoluted.
This really ticks me off, how Rebels are always so limited. Why do people even bother playing them?
They have won the last several World Tournaments. Maybe you should ask the people that have been playing and winning with them rather than being so upset because you don't understand how to play them.
Let's see, what else is unrestricted. . .
Predator, PtL, engine upgrade, auto thrusters, crack shot, vectored thrusters, etc etc. The common theme with all of these is that they're all infinitely better than R3.
I thought the common theme was that none of them were AstroMech, or that all of them were either EPT or Modifications.
[...] This really ticks me off, how Rebels are always so limited. [...]
Really? Don't you think we're getting a little upset over a game. If this is the worse problem you see this week I envy your life.
Meanwhile, Defenders get a free Evade for -2 points, without messing up their firepower.
I'm really curious, what incredibly broken synergies did the designers see, to make this so convoluted.
This really ticks me off, how Rebels are always so limited. Why do people even bother playing them?
They have won the last several World Tournaments. Maybe you should ask the people that have been playing and winning with them rather than being so upset because you don't understand how to play them.
The last worlds was before wave 8 dropped.
The winner of the last 3 worlds with those rebels has himself said he doesn't feel they're currently competitive.
The winner of the last 3 worlds with those rebels has himself said he doesn't feel they're currently competitive.
I wonder if that is the same as saying they are as competitive as the Imperials have been the last three world's? I don't know I haven't met or spoken with him. I'm just thinking that the Imperial's haven't won in years and the Rebels get a new upgrade that people won't use anyway. Then suddenly people rage and bemoan the end of all things rebellion, how terrible FFG is. If you're not going to use it then things really haven't changed and the sun will most likely rise tomorrow; just not of some peoples sour demeanor.
The winner of the last 3 worlds with those rebels has himself said he doesn't feel they're currently competitive.
I wonder if that is the same as saying they are as competitive as the Imperials have been the last three world's? I don't know I haven't met or spoken with him. I'm just thinking that the Imperial's haven't won in years and the Rebels get a new upgrade that people won't use anyway. Then suddenly people rage and bemoan the end of all things rebellion, how terrible FFG is. If you're not going to use it then things really haven't changed and the sun will most likely rise tomorrow; just not of some peoples sour demeanor.
Imperials have been plenty competitive in the last 3 worlds, they just haven't won.
Partly because paul heaver hasn't been playing them
Rebels are not currently competitive in the most common metagame situation, because they can only counter one of the two big meta threats at a time, reliably - palp/aces or jumpmasters.
The raging and moaning about R3 astromech isn't because R3 astromech makes Rebels bad - they were bad already. It's because it doesn't make them appreciably better, when it looked from the preview like it might have.
On 7/12/2016 at 8:27 AM, jimmius said:Absolutely abysmal upgrade. Seriously, we're talking Wave 1 R5K6 or D8 level trash here.
2 Points for the privilege of cancelling a die result that:
1) you have no control over getting
2) might be more useful to you anyway
And all for a crummy evade token. The Tie Defenders get an infinity better version of this for 4 less points.
Every single card FFG releases to try and give the T-65s a bump is such a catastrophic swing-and-a-miss that they've managed to smash their own face in with the bat.
Running this Astromech would change your game plan. Obviously you aren’t going to focus when running R3, target lock as the action would be your first move. Then spend it. Repeat. Roll 3 dice, any eyeballs or blanks? Reroll those. They will probably be hits, if not is it an eyeball? Free evade. Blanks? Unlucky.
Plus this allows you to run integrated astromech for cheap.
Think about this build:
Rey (45)
Finn (5)
title (1)
Blue Squad Novice (24)
R3 (2)
integrated astro (0)
Rookie Pilot (21)
R3 (2)
integrated astro (0)
100 points
target lock with the x-wings every turn. Maybe keep 1 focus roll for the evade if you want. I don’t see why that build wouldn’t work.
Your Blue Squad Novice and Rookie don't shoot until late in the PS order, meaning likely they have already been shot at by the time they might get an Evade. Then the Evade goes away at the end of the round. Unused and sad. There are cheaper and better 'mechs (like FAA) for getting IA.
But the good news is that X-Wing 2.0 might fix R3 Astromech