I like Gunnery Schematics (but not sure on that name).

It would give the TP a distinct role - like a tank destroyer.

I like Gunnery Schematics (but not sure on that name).

It would give the TP a distinct role - like a tank destroyer.

I like this too - make it the imp equivalent of the YT-2400.

What about making it very versatile, but without increasing survivability or attack potency.

A ?pt Title that "whenever you equip a [Torp], [Missile] or [bomb] upgrade, you may equip a 2nd upgrade of the same type but lower squad point cost for free. You may not take Extra Munitions."

In this way, you can have a platform equipped for a wide range of circumstances, but without ridiculous cost, which isn't any more effective using them than a standard bomber, and can still be manageably focused down by a determined opponent.

This could give it a unique role, but perhaps put an even bigger target on its back.

Something else that would just be cool, but probably couldn't be balanced;

Miniaturized Fabricator

- uses two Torpedo slots

- "Whenever you make an attack with a Missile (and/or Bomb) upgrade that tells you to discard it, don't."

While the Punisher is broken nothing can measure up to the dreaded Fel's Wrath - the worst ship in the game.

I could see the third wave of Veterans/Aces/legends/What have you including a TIE punisher with some nice patches. Considering its a ship that requires an enormous amount of skill to fly (thematically), a Punisher fix might include generic pilots with an ability. perhaps:

1. Gamma Squadron Ace (one step above the TIE bomber's Gamma Squadron Veteran) 24 Points, PS 5.

When you acquire a target lock, assign 1 tractor beam token to the subject of the target lock.

2. Chaos Squadron Pilot (gains EPT slot, at the loss of 1 torpedo) 24 Points, PS 6.

You may treat the target lock tokens of friendly ships at range 1-2 as your own.

Thematically 1. symbolises the tactical advantage gained by a squadron of advanced fighters when an opposing ship has its location and vector determined. This gives bombers a huge leg-up against aces, because you could conceivably have 4 of them decreasing Soontir Fel to 0 agiity.

2. gives the Punisher access to an EPT slot and a powerful ability that can greatly boost 1 ordnance shot at the cost of anther.

Fel's Wrath. LOL.

How about this punisher-only system upgrade

Enhanced Ordnance Delivery Network: after this ship resolves an attack with a secondary weapon system, it may make a second attack with a secondary weapon system.

That's totally broken with cluster missiles, or Fire Control System and Homing Missiles. I could accept letting them perform a primary weapon attack after a secondary weapon attack, but that's quite similar to the TIE/D title.

Applies to the TIE Punisher, and K-Wing. These ships sacrifice their bombing role for the ability to equip an upgrade that allows them to attack without the need of having a target lock. If the ordnance were to spend a target lock, instead of that, it performs the attack twice (which discards Homing Missiles, Adv Homing Missiles, and Proton Rockets, as well as Cluster Missiles, because it already performs the attack twice).

With extra munitions, they can perform this twice.

It allows the ship to use up their loadout before blowing up. A big damage peak in the first rounds. If the ship survives the initial rounds, its damage output falls back to normality, once the LFL are discarded (after 1 use, or 2 sues if the ship has Extra Munitions).

This cannot be applied on TIE Bombers or other ordnance-carrying ships, so it gives a reason to bring TIE Punishers and K-Wings loaded with missiles and torpedoes (a configuration that is rarely seen, despite the evident upgrade bar of these ship), instead of the most common mines, turrets, and crew.

Thinking about - trying to make it a support ship might go some way to offer something new.

In "lore" the ship fielded extra weapons and systems. The Punisher was mean't to be a used in place of Star Destroyers - it's targets where ground installations or capital ships.

I feel this is why it works well in Epic and casual, but not competitive play. By it's nature its not a ship well suited to 100pt tournament play.

The other role I could see it playing is a support AWAC's role: enhanced systems, surveillance and support.

Replacing ordinance with slots that allow system upgrades specific to the Punisher only.

- Title that allows an action: allows it to place target lock on any ship in the play area *and then* pass blue target lock to one ship R1-2
- Title that allows an action: give a focus *or* an evade to any single ship on the play area (gives the Imps a "Manaroo")

One - or both - of those titles could also create an extra crew slot.

It could be a 0pt title, but drops ordinance.

The creation of the Tie Shuttle has created some really interesting opportunities for Tie Bombers - just by redefining their role beyond ordinance carriers. Reckon the old Tie P could use the same treatment.

It only needs more survivability,

Something like "Reinforced Hull": After suffering damage, you may discard one face-down card you just received.

It only needs more survivability,

Something like "Reinforced Hull": After suffering damage, you may discard one face-down card you just received.

"You may equip a different 0 cost modification"

Also possibly add a "once per turn" clause. And then make it free - interesting fix. No idea how effective that would be, though, might be too little, might be too much.

It only needs more survivability,

Something like "Reinforced Hull": After suffering damage, you may discard one face-down card you just received.

Thereby making it completely immune to 2 dice attacks, Twin laser turrets and anything else that can't reliably deal more than 1 damage? I think that may be a bit overkill.

For survivability, try:

Advanced Scopes (3), system upgrade

Action: The first ship to declare an attack on you this round must instead attack another ship, if able.

This is the ultimate protection; fly this next to a TIE fighter and let is soak up the damage while you rain down death. I'm not sure how balanced it would be on Corran Horn, so perhaps it should be a "TIE punisher only upgrade."

And after implementing even a single one from "fixes" proposed they'd get a double-broken Punisher.

because UP TO ELEVEN seems to be the only way people can think.

Fair point, although I'd call Soontir Fel a "12." Because certain cards allow for uncanny combinations the ships that are even slightly left behind are rarely played, and ships that are significantly flawed in their costing (like the Punisher) have to be drastically revamped in order to compete. You'd find that although this upgrade increases defensive power, it i useless in a 1 on 1 battle, and hurts your other ships too.

Fel is just a good example of "pilot skill, ship, dial, Pilot skill" that all combine into something greater.

take anything away and it's a fail.
Fel with PS8? Fel with no hard-green turns? Fel who has a different ability? Fel who can't PTL to the stars? All would have been a mess that'd never see the table.

It only needs more survivability,

Something like "Reinforced Hull": After suffering damage, you may discard one face-down card you just received.

Thereby making it completely immune to 2 dice attacks, Twin laser turrets and anything else that can't reliably deal more than 1 damage? I think that may be a bit overkill.

It may be overkill... but it will certainly be survivable.

It just doesn't seem like making them better at ordinance is the solution, since they are too expensive in the role of ordinance carrier. The TIE Bomber, especially the new one, fill that role well already, and it seems counter-productive to make them compete for that same role.

It just doesn't seem like making them better at ordinance is the solution, since they are too expensive in the role of ordinance carrier. The TIE Bomber, especially the new one, fill that role well already, and it seems counter-productive to make them compete for that same role.

Well, that's the crux of it really - unless it does Ordinance better than the TB, it has no place whatsoever - forget fixes, and send it straight to the desert.

With all those extra pods and TWO bomb chutes (please, no upgrade that steals both bomb slots), it should be king of Ordinance.

I don't really like the look of the ship, but that doesn't stop me wanting to see it have a niche role...

Either:

Survive longer to deploy all its payload (frontal defectors); or

Utilise Ordinance in a unique way (TL efficiency or double tap); or

Carry a diverse range of options without costing the earth; or

Gain discounted EM.

(there have been some good ideas - instead of disregarding them, perhaps they just need to be toned down - perhaps some of these ideas might even inspire possibilities for completely different future ships)

I think someone might have said previously (this thread or a prior) that there's no recognisable mine-layer... It could forge place for itself as a super-pooper... dropping mines as a free action, or while stressed; or dropping two bombs at once (either both on the usual 'straight 1' position, or the second placed after the manoeuvre at the position the ship started in).

Give it a point of distinction - some may say the Shielding and System slot does already...?

(oh - please - no Punishuttle either - it's a nice gimmick for the TB, let the lil' brother keep it)

All this being said - someone might just go and win a major tournie with a Punisher, and we can all be put in our place.

I think that all options listed so far by everyone would make fantastic fixes... for the casual table. Each of them produce a suitable increase in cost:benefit ratio for the punisher, but none of them (including my own) have the finesse to deal with every situation the game presents. I guess that's why FFG developers get paid to do what they do.

In response to Warpman: That's exactly my point - Soontir Fel is a perfect ship with all the right attributes. How could anything even slightly inferior compete? The punisher is a mes, but in more ways than one... Wait a minute, I think I just had an epiphany:

Title: Stingy (TIE punisher only)

For each [torpedo], [missile] and [bomb] slot that has not been equipped, decrease your munitions cost by 1, to a minimum of zero.

In other words, you could take extra munitions and cluster missiles for a scant 2 points, and have room left over for fire control system in a squad of four of them.

giving it a 3primary would be great. Gives it backup power if you get range1 so i dont lose my punch (4 die in yo face with more than likely a TL) and also makes Gchips mod into a crit like you said.

...actually thats an oddly simple fix that sounds really good.

Also, it turns the TIEpun into a Bwing equivalent, which the Imperials lack. Rebels have the Bwing, Scum have the Mist Hunter.

Agreed. If you actually compare a Cutlass Squadron Pilot to Blue Squadron Pilot, you can see that their stats are pretty similar for almost the same cost... except the 3 primary attack dice. Their evade is the same, their HP I could consider equivalent since Punishers are far more prone to being crit since most of their HP is in hull instead of shields like the B-Wing, both their dials are kind of lame (with each having their own strengths and weaknesses), and their action bar is almost identical except one has boost where the other has barrel roll.

For the low low price of 1 extra point and losing excessive ordnance slots you doesn't even use, the B-Wing gains a 3-dice primary weapon over its closest Imperial counterpart. Poor Punisher.

Good point, I hadn't considered the punisher in comparison to the B-wing, although they're pretty synonymous. The punisher probably has the better dial (considering the 4K over the 2K), but loses out really badly on the 1 attack die. A good question might be: is the punisher better than the pre-integrated astromech T-65 X-wing? I think it is, but ordnance really has to be discounted to make the punisher viable, or give it a 3 die primary attack.

Good point, I hadn't considered the punisher in comparison to the B-wing, although they're pretty synonymous. The punisher probably has the better dial (considering the 4K over the 2K), but loses out really badly on the 1 attack die. A good question might be: is the punisher better than the pre-integrated astromech T-65 X-wing? I think it is, but ordnance really has to be discounted to make the punisher viable, or give it a 3 die primary attack.

Many people consider the 2K turn to be better than the 4K turn, since it works better when knife fighting, and is more rare compared to the longer distance kturns...which can be forgotten about by some opponents.

Well, Tom Reed has recently won an Open and two Regionals with his Triple Jumpmasters list.

My Punisher/Phantom list beat him, though, and he might run it at Coruscant as his Punisher entry.

That said, it's definitely true that the Punisher is an utter slog to play with and only Redline really makes it at all viable (and before people go "Redline is bad since FCS nerf" I wasn't using FCS anyway). The ship is almost certainly the worst thing in the Imperial arsenal.

But there are a ton of other ships out that that need love more. With Bombers being pushed up the ranks I think the Punisher can be left alone for a while to pay attention to scum/rebel ships instead.

I ran your original list with Echo, Redline, Bomber and it was really good. I took out a double Uboat Party Bus list without losing a single ship. I changed out redline for Vessery though and liked that a bit more and had success with it. Redline is cool, but just **** expensive. Lots of better ships out there for his price.

Title: Stingy (TIE punisher only)

For each [torpedo], [missile] and [bomb] slot that has not been equipped, decrease your munitions cost by 1, to a minimum of zero.

In other words, you could take extra munitions and cluster missiles for a scant 2 points, and have room left over for fire control system in a squad of four of them.

Something like this sounds good. However, I believe that the BEST course of action would be making the Punisher more capable in its role. What is it's role, you ask? Well, taking a look at the TIE-Bomber, it is the cheapest dedicated ordnance carrier in the game. This makes the ship ideal for alpha strikes with limited but powerful payloads, taking advantage of its relatively expendable nature. The Punisher, on the contrary, has all those ordnance slots for a reason. It's supposed to be using ordnance for a long, long time. In order to accomplish this it needs to:

A.) Be tanky enough to survive

B.) Have enough ordnance to do something for most of, if not all, the game (assuming it's not dying immediately)

... and so... I offer a solution.

MANUFACTURING BAY (0pt)

TIE-Punisher only. Title.

ACTION : Place 1 ordnance token on any equipped Torpedoes, Missiles, or Bomb Upgrade card. When you are instructed to discard an Upgrade card, you may discard 1 ordnance token on that card instead.

Places emphasis on extended battles, creates critical decision-making moments whether or not it's worth it to turn an ordnance face-down forever for the extra clutch burst, leaves Extra Munitions still useful, may potentially GREATLY reduce the cost of Punishers (for a price, AKA precious turns needed to use actions to "reload"), in the event it is too powerful it has a weakness to stress for counter-play, and leaves the "System" slot open for Sensor Jammer for added tankiness. Boom! Done.