Emphasis on extended battles on a ship that rarely sees past turn 8.

Adding more charges to ordnance will never fix the punisher. Make it never discard anything and people still wont use it because you still will only get 3 MAYBE 4 ordnance off (including mines) before it dies.

True, but that is why I was VERY clear about it needing to be tanky enough to survive and potentially freeing up space and points to allow Sensor Jammer to be used as a defensive upgrade. Although quite frankly I believe it needs more than that, but I wanted a simple solution. Perhaps a Punisher unique sensor or modification upgrade similar to "Advanced Targeting Computer" and "Integrated Astromech" for added tankiness would go a long way.

Or leave the game designing to the pro's

Sorry... but getting only "3 or 4 ordnance" off means, that you have most probably killed 3 or 4 ships already, which might be the whole list of your enemy....

Why? Because Redline will do 4 of 4 possible damage everytime it fires. And it won't be the only ship on the other team, there are maybe 2 more, which also cause huge damage to a ship.

Redline is pretty durable also, because it has got 9 hitpoints. You won't get this off the table so easily, unlike a T-65 for example. An X Wing is so much easier to destroy.

i wouldnt call them pros. When there isnt any insanely complex statlines, spells, armor ratings, etc etc to keep track of its really easy to come up with new rules. If i had the funding i would make my own tabletop, been wanting to for awhile and even have the mockup rules for a Final Fantasy Tactics-esque game. But i dont have the fundings, and miniature games are really hard to get off the ground as dozens of "Kickstarter" miniature games will attest. Mostly because you need so many people to buy their own stuff, while boardgames 1 guy buys it for 4-6 people to play.

And you are completely ignoring defense if you think 3-4 ordnance will wipe an enemy team. Ive ran a bumperwing keyan with EM + Adv Prots and slammed him right into a uboat causing 5 damage with BOTH attacks (Zeb says we no touchin') using Blount's ion shenanigans to guarantee the 2nd hit - didnt kill the boat because he rolled 2 evades both times.

4hits rarely 1shots ships with any real points invested in them. Cripples them oh yeah definitely, 1shots? doubt it.

Thats why i keep saying the Punisher needs a double-ordnance attack. Even if its a once per game thing to fire two ordnance off 1 TL or something it would be a huge boon because it would condense those two shots into one turn, reducing the retaliation you take.

I think the Tie Punisher is just best used in non-standard games. It's a heavy ordnance carrier that can withstand some hits and deliver some massive payloads.

Agreed. At 60 points it could be a monster, and at 300 an enemy might be too distracted to focus fire on a squadron for a while. That could keep them alive much longer. As a fix that gives the Punisher more durability, how about:

Flak Coordinator (0) System, TIE Punisher only

When you would be hit by an attack, you may discard one equipped [torpedo] or [missile] to cancel all dice results before the "compare attack dice step." Then, suffer 1 damage.

Thematically, this represents the punisher discarding a projectile into space on a collision course with incoming fire, preventing the ship from suffering damage from the enemy but suffering slight damage from the blast. I think it works quite well because for 4 points you could get extra munitions and two XX23 S-Thread Tracers, protecting you from four individual attacks. Then you could use your remaining torpedo slot for some useful ordinance. This would ensure that the only way to take down a TIE punisher is by sustained fire over multiple rounds, which is always difficult. Additionally, this would be a perfect counter to the alpha strike meta currently forming.

not sure why people think the punisher would be great in epic...

If i saw it i would immediately lock my Single Laser Turret on that thing. Range5, its already getting hammered. By the time its in range3 its almost dead and getting hit by other things too.

I always go for the easy to hit targets first in epic. Sheer raw number of attacks alone kills things in epic more than shenanigans.

Or leave the game designing to the pro's

And we should all stop playing war-games and leave military tactics to the professional soldiers.

i wouldnt call them pros. When there isnt any insanely complex statlines, spells, armor ratings, etc etc to keep track of its really easy to come up with new rules. If i had the funding i would make my own tabletop, been wanting to for awhile and even have the mockup rules for a Final Fantasy Tactics-esque game. But i dont have the fundings, and miniature games are really hard to get off the ground as dozens of "Kickstarter" miniature games will attest. Mostly because you need so many people to buy their own stuff, while boardgames 1 guy buys it for 4-6 people to play.

And you are completely ignoring defense if you think 3-4 ordnance will wipe an enemy team. Ive ran a bumperwing keyan with EM + Adv Prots and slammed him right into a uboat causing 5 damage with BOTH attacks (Zeb says we no touchin') using Blount's ion shenanigans to guarantee the 2nd hit - didnt kill the boat because he rolled 2 evades both times.

4hits rarely 1shots ships with any real points invested in them. Cripples them oh yeah definitely, 1shots? doubt it.

Thats why i keep saying the Punisher needs a double-ordnance attack. Even if its a once per game thing to fire two ordnance off 1 TL or something it would be a huge boon because it would condense those two shots into one turn, reducing the retaliation you take.

not sure why people think the punisher would be great in epic...

If i saw it i would immediately lock my Single Laser Turret on that thing. Range5, its already getting hammered. By the time its in range3 its almost dead and getting hit by other things too.

I always go for the easy to hit targets first in epic. Sheer raw number of attacks alone kills things in epic more than shenanigans.

1) take more than 1

2) It's got 2 green dice vs. 4, which isn't horrible. Also, if you took Sensor Jammers, the Epic ship doesn't get a Focus, so those odds are not bad.

I just did the dice probability of 4 w/ TL vs. 2 w/ Focus and Sensor Jammers and....

34 % of zero hits

25% of 1 hit

23% of 2 hits

5% of 3 hits

Expected Damage: 1

Jammers wouldnt work against Single Laser Turrets because they let you mod 1 focus to a hit. You mod before i mod.

Though it would prevent me from getting additional hits.

Not saying its the ultimate counter but that is a prime ship to be shooting at.

It would require the extra Energy to be spent, though. Also, it would also prevent another eyeball from being turned into a hit, which would lower the averages, still. Thinking about the Tie Punisher going 3 forward and a Boost each round, it would only take 2 turns to get from R5 to R3. So, that's 2 turns of firing. Overall, though, it's really not so bad.

It also means that the enemy Epic ship was firing at a Tie Punisher, which means other ships aren't being shot. So, you can have 2 Tie Punishers....or your own Epic ship with Single Turbo Laser that is firing on the enemy and hitting the capital ship.

Thats the Weapons Team youre thinking of, the single laser just mods 1 focus into a hit.

Which makes 0 bloody sense when you think about it. The ONE gun huge ships have that is suppose to be highly inaccurate but deadly is the only one that has a die-mod built into it...wat...

the FAQ only nerfed Redline's clustermissile strat, which he spends a TL to fire the first shot, uses 2nd to mod that shot, generates new TL's via Fire Control System, mods the 2nd attack with new TL's, regenerates lost TL's.

Now he doesnt get his TLs back after the first "attack" because "perform this attack twice" counts as one attack for things that proc off of attacking/defending...to put it simply anyway.

Thanks for explaining this clearly. So with the change, do you still equip him with Cluster Missiles or would Concussion or Assault be better now?

Clusters are still good against low agi ships but i largely ignore them now days.