hey guys,

gotta say, very disappointed with the ARC-170 preview revealing no epts on the PS 3 and 4 and on r3 astro in particular

r3 astro is easily the worst thing I've seen in a while, being both not very good AND rng dependent makes me wonder if FFG truly learned anything from Wave 1 and r5-d8. I understand there are was around its horrible offensive neutering, namely BTL-A4 and Gunner, but it's still a crapshoot unless you're Norra.

anyway, this thread is my attempt to keep things positive. After all, I'm already wedded to the gloriously goofy ship, so might as well make the most of it !

I. A Note About the ARC

the ARC-170 obviously isn't your typical ship, not when it has a 0 point title carded necessary to explain how the dang thing works

basically, Alliance Overhaul means 3 things

Auxiliary Arc

3 dice primary from front

always modded from behind; full mods effectively with a re-roll

this already skyrockets the value of cards that operate from the firing arc (ala r3-a2) and anything that allows the re-rolling of attack dice (especially lone wolf and predator)

but how good is a 2-die primary, even modified? well, probably not very. Don't get me wrong, it's lovely when it works but I doubt you're going to win any games with it unless you're at range 1, have Norra, or don't care about how many dice your throwing (ala r3-a2, see a pattern?)

II. Braylen Stramm (aka. "Have I mentioned R3-a2?")

a quick word on RNG dependent abilities: "**** them"

seriously, **** added RNG on top of the already all too fickle red v green dice system. Do yourself a favor and pretend this guy has flavor text, because given the reliability of dice that's exactly what he might as well have

BUT

that doesn't make the God **** Stramm a bad pilot. No no! In fact, he's the single best r3-a2 ARC (exception of Norra with KK pending). Why?

1. He's the cheapest
2. His ability isn't action dependent (Thane? free actions. Shara? needs TL. Norra? needs TL AND focus!?!?!)

his ability could never trigger (and indeed some day you may be just THAT unlucky) and he'd still be the ideal r3-a2 platform

but what are we getting into exactly?

Braylen (25)

*r3-a2 (2)

*Gunner (5)

[Total: 32]

6 points over your trusty StressY makes him a hard sell, but he has some very good qualities

Most important of all: the aux arc. By all, we should all know how much of a pain in the ass it is to keep an arc-locked Y on the enemy when the most it can do is a 90 degree turn. Well, Braylen doesn't care! r3-a2 will be just dandy firing from either arc

Second most important of all: Braylen might actually still get modifiers. His ability (sometimes) + a green maneuver means he might actually be able to do actions What Sorcery is this!?!?! Disregarding his ability, you still have Alliance Overhaul and Gunner chipping in to help push damage through onto something

Braylen is an expensive stresshog (stress boar? imagine the massive laser cannons are tusks...) but he at least does bring some clear cut benefits over the humble Y

if you're stingy with points, though, there's always tactician! [29 points]

III. Thane Kyrell (aka. Inverse Tarn Mison)

this guy will inevitably draw comparisons to Valen Rudor. He shouldn't. The ARC has two native actions and this guy is not worth stuffing points into, not at PS 4 with no ept.

What Thane is is a walking gun trained directly onto your enemy, specifically this gun:

you shoot his friend, you give Thane a fully modified retaliation shot back. It's that simple.

Thane is the inverse Tarn, rather than rolling up Dirty Harry style and daring the opponent to shoot him, Thane encourages people to shoot him by promising violent retaliation in return for shooting his friend

Because of his action efficient ability, Thane might be the only ARC-170 I'd run without upgrades (the title might as well be stapled on, so don't get too cute!). He's just a 26 point bruiser, nothing more and nothing less.

Any upgrades you give him should be centered around increasing his damage potential, but since some wise-guy at FFG decided to not let him have Crackshot we're just going to have to throw our arms up here.

And so, a word on tail-gunner. It's not bad, but it's not very good either. It'll turn you into a sh*tty Wedge, essentially, and the value of that is something that'll require a lot of testing. Of all the ARCs, though, I believe Thane's relatively self-sufficient nature and his intimidating "big stick" nature makes him the ideal tail gunner if such a thing exists

To further the Tarn parallel, though, you could give Thane R7 astromech. The reasoning is simple, a problem ship can either shoot Thane and eat defensive re-rolls OR shoot a friend and eat a fully modified shot.

another, though probably far worse, combo is R7-T1. Note Thane does not specify which kind of actions he can take, so ACTION: headers should be good to go. What does R7-t1 accomplish here? Just a boost into a potential range 1 on top of the target-lock you can normally take (or a way to align your firing arc before combat). Idk, might be something.

Thane's ability also isn't round limited, so it can trigger as many times as you have actions to perform. This probably won't come up often given the action bar, but remember it in case Thane ever flies through an asteroid or bumps.

Finally, and I believe this should be said ASAP, you don't need to run Biggs to make Thane work

yes, the combo is "no ****" obvious, but I don't want anyone discounting the possibility of Thane becoming his own Biggs as well. The threat of his ability may well be enough to sway your opponent's target priority.

IV. Shara Bey (aka "I mothered Poe and all I got was this lousy ability")

the Esege of the wave, Shara is another victim of FFG's ill conceived attempts to turn expensive combat craft into janky support vessels

even worse, Shara's ability isn't something like Howlrunner's, who just hands out free re-rolls to friendlies, or Dutch, who multiples his target-locks. No no no, you have to give up your modifier so a friendly can use it. Yes, a 28 point ship with an effective 3 dice primary is hindering itself for some reason

sigh

so, what's a mom to do?

way I see it, you have two options.

First is you try to work around the crappy ability

For example, use Alliance Overhaul's innate focus mod + predator to not give a crap about your own target-lock. Of course, you're now stuck at two dice and your front-arc only benefits from the predator re-roll...but synergy guys!

Second is you try to make a ship that doesn't care so much about attacking. Granted, this is pretty freaking difficult when it's a 28 base cost + effective 3-dice primary, FFG but there is a way

no, it's not saboteur

it's Sabine

the ARC-170 boasts the unique combination of Astromech + Crew slot upgrades, making it the only ship (so far) that can run the combo. BB-8 triggers when revealing a green maneuver; seismics drop when revealing your maneuver dial. Unless it's FAQed to hell, you should be able to barrel-roll before dropping a seismic

Shara - 28

*Sabine (2)

*Seismics (2)

*Extras (2)

*bb-8

[36]

slap on Veteran Instincts to better abuse seismics (bid v the Inquisitor; out PS Vessery and Igs) for 37 points, and you might have a semi-solid pilot. By focusing on bombs, which may throw you out of arc and deny your own shots, you can have a friendly whisk away your target-lock with minimal concern.

expensive as all hell, though

V. Norra Wexley (aka "How Many Hoops Can We Make Rebel Players Jump Through?")

my lord, what the hell is this ability? spend a modifier to gain a result that you then have to modify...it's the best worst ability I've ever seen

Norra seems tailor made by FFG to promote rebel jank synergy builds

unlike Shara, though, her ability isn't just there to shoot herself in the foot. For example, if you combine it with Alliance Overhaul it's basically just a free guaranteed crit result

Also, if you manage to get a focus + TL and roll 1 under the max amount of possible hits/focus, Norra's ability will essentially provide that last result 100% of the time instead of gambling on dice.

the main problem is now getting Norra's ability to work for her without constructing a frail rube goldberg machine of a list, and for that you have two main solutions

1.) Push the Limit (for obvious reasons)

the quick and easy fix

can use it with r2-d2 (36 points) since you're spamming greens anyway, possibly even with c3po in the crew slot (39 points)

promotes easy synergy with bb-8.

hell, it's not the worst with Tail Gunner. Norra's ability is easy synergy with Alliance Overhaul and that only way for the ARC-170 to effectively reach 3-dice primary levels of damage from the auxiliary arc.

2.) Stolen directly from the Lord of Defenders, Biophyiscal (emperor knows what he's doing oogling these relics when he has those lovelies to fly ):

r3-a2 + kyle katarn

you won't be able to double-tap r3-a2, but you will gain the means to generate focus independently of PTL. This'll free up the EPT slot, allowing you to throw in either more dice modification with Predator or VI up to an impressive PS 9 and use VTs to threaten aces wherever they go

At 37 points, neither combo will offer a cheap nor durable pilot (especially relative to r5-p9 thruster VI Poe) but it does provide a unique offensive threat that combines (potentially) high damage output with enough control to influence opponent maneuvers, potentially to the point of denying shots (re: deny red maneuvers), and punish popular upgrades such as PTL or Overclocked aggromech

In Closing.

The ARC-170 is a fascinating and fascinatingly goofy little ship that I'll be playing by merit of the sexy model alone

I have to sadly say, however, that it also seems to be a ship that FFG dropped the ball on.

It's very fragile and pretty dang expensive, especially after chalking up all the neat toys it gets to use. Apart from Thane, they seem overall very inefficient and they lack the immediate impact of ships such as the torpedo scout or the x7 Defender.

The main advantage ARC-170 seems to be its ability to deal decently with opposing aces, owing mostly to its ability to take R3-A2. Against the opposite leg of the meta (i.e, torpedo scouts), it brings nothing apart from a cheap but punchy Thane to the table.

Most of all, imo, the ARC-170 seems to offer

1. Another rebel regenerator (PS 7 Norra, PTL + c3po + r2-d2 for 39 points)
2. A high damage glass cannon (Norra again, with either Kyle Katarn + r3-a2 + predator for 37 or Push the Limit + bb-8 + tail gunner for 36)
3. An expensive, high performance Stress Hog (Stramm, R3-a2 + Gunner/Tactician for 32/29 points)
4. A potentially efficient beatstick (Thane with nada)

It is my hope that the ARC-170 will find some use on the table. This use might be only from behind the protective wall that is Biggs to ensure they don't just evaporate. But hey, I'm sure the X will look really cool alongside its predecessors

Thanks for the great analysis.

Honestly, I'm not sure any combo gets past C3PO and R2D2 efficiency if you don't get blown off the board in the first 2 turns.

Also, I'm REALLY not fond of the 0pt extra really long card text. =/ Would have preferred if it was simple as getting 3 dice out from and back.

And no generics. And theyre 25 26 28 29 meaning i can't even take 4 in a list like I was hoping.

Also the low PS ones kinda. Bleh.

Still getting two. The PS4 might see use as a nice wingman.

And I'm definitely flying Norra, APT, Opportunist, Shara/Ducth + Jan for 8 dice attacks.

problem with 3 : 3 aux arc and a small base is we're just looking at a far superior Firespray

which I wouldn't mind, but I don't have to balance the game

Alliance Overhaul is a necessary evil, but I'm sure we'll come to love it

Vessery and his TB say hi, just like with the y-wing and b-wing before it your ass is grass and he's the lawn mower.

Vessery and his TB say hi, just like with the y-wing and b-wing before it your ass is grass and he's the lawn mower.

you mean Biggs' ass is grass

poor Biggs

There is nothing "elite" about PS 3-4. Also, FFGs is giving us new upgrades that let you spend a focus result for some other good benefit, which reduces the need for PtL on pilots, as now you aren't going to miss out on those focus results, they will always be useful.

Though I probably shouldn't complain too much about your complaining, as I'm sure I'll be bitching when they spoil the TIE/sf Fighter. Only 2 agility and no evade?!? WTF FFG?!?

I love this ****.

There is nothing "elite" about PS 3-4.

uh...

hell, I thought r2-d6 had its whole "You cannot equip this upgrade if you already have an elite upgrade icon or if your pilot skill value is "2" or lower" because we'd be getting low PS epts

which is mainly just sad, not game breaking. Just imagine what you could do with Lightning Reflexes on r3-a2 Braylen

Weapons Engineer on Shara Bey. Come on fickle, wake the **** up.

Add Targeting Astromech if you really want to take leave of your senses.

I assume your post is based on the extensive table time you've had with the ARC pilots since the preview article was released?

not at all, Vorpal

I just have the 4 years and the PHD in ARC-170 required to voice opinions on this illustrious forum

because, obviously, we can't think ahead without anything less

Weapons Engineer on Shara Bey. Come on fickle, wake the **** up.

Add Targeting Astromech if you really want to take leave of your senses.

is horrible because Shara aint no redline (neither is the wep engineer)

if she could stack TL for your squad to concentrate fire against the same enemy, she'd be almost as good as dutch

What I'm trying to get across is that, while I like your posts fairly often, your default stance--not just here, but in general--seems to be that any card is wasted unless it's not only immediately and obviously top-tier competitive but also in line with your personal assumptions, prejudices, and preferences.

Which is okay.

Because its not only his opinion, but he set the very tone of the post with the posts' alliterative name, after all...

You at least know what you're getting into with Fickle... Even if you don't agree with it...

Interesting, with your anti-dice stance, that you choose Gunner over Tactician for Braylen.

There is nothing "elite" about PS 3-4.

The Green Squadron Pilot was from wave II. The Black Squadron Pilot was from the Core set.

I still don't understand why people use that argument

Frankly, I wish they'd made the elite upgrades universal like modifications, and just put a PS requirement on a few of the dangerous ones like Crack Shots.

Interesting, with your anti-dice stance, that you choose Gunner over Tactician for Braylen.

Presumably because it's win-win. If you miss, you attack again and give a second stress. If you hit, you did at least one damage to an Ace and gave them a stress token. Against anyone except Vessery, both outcomes are desirable (Against Vessery, neither are great because he's fairly tanky but has excellent action economy even when stressed)

Interesting, with your anti-dice stance, that you choose Gunner over Tactician for Braylen.

gunner is anti-dice insurance, so I like it

there is the little issue of not guaranteed two stress but there's a sliver lining: if you only landed one stress you've also landed at least one damage

range flexibility is also very nice. I forgot the StressY has a range 1 "dead zone" where it can apply only 1 stress. Not so the r3-a2 gunner ARC!

There is nothing "elite" about PS 3-4.

uh...

hell, I thought r2-d6 had its whole "You cannot equip this upgrade if you already have an elite upgrade icon or if your pilot skill value is "2" or lower" because we'd be getting low PS epts

which is mainly just sad, not game breaking. Just imagine what you could do with Lightning Reflexes on r3-a2 Braylen

Well the Jumpmaster is a terrible example, as that ship is a design nightmare, but I'll concede PS 4 to you.

I still think you're being too harsh on the ARC-170. The pilots all have interesting abilities and the upgrades look to explore a bit of new design space as well as provide an inexpensive movement mod for other ships. I also think R3 is a neat little mech. He combos well with Comm Relay on T-70s, and can provide a bit of action economy on stressed or otherwise focusless ships.

gotta stress the "can" bit on R3

because he can also do jack ****

I'd be far more accepting if he just did what he was supposed to, i.e once per round drop a red die and grab an evade

I'm really confused as to why FFG felt the need to make his success a random occurrence

as for the ARC-170, the main problem is just the large shadow cast by the torpedo scout (sadly not by the shadowcaster)

8/9 health and 1 agility simply do not last against that

against palp aces or just about anything else, though, the ARC-170 shouldn't have a problem pulling its weight

Weapons Engineer on Shara Bey. Come on fickle, wake the **** up.

Add Targeting Astromech if you really want to take leave of your senses.

The best case scenario with Weapons Engineer is Shara ends up being an alternative to Dutch, giving another nearby ship a target lock at PS 6, although Shara can be out of range of the friendly ship when she takes the target lock unlike Dutch, while Dutch can give the friendly ship a target lock on the same ship he ship. (Well, you can also give target locks on two different ships to two different Friendly ships, but that's kind of niche since it means your 29+ point ship is attacking with naked red dice unless you spent even more points)

Dutch with a Turret comes to about the same price as Shara, so I guess you can use her in place of Dutch if the ARC-170 would serve you better than a Y-wing in a particular list. Still, it's not like we see Dutch everywhere, is it?

gotta stress the "can" bit on R3

because he can also do jack ****

I'd be far more accepting if he just did what he was supposed to, i.e once per round drop a red die and grab an evade

I'm really confused as to why FFG felt the need to make his success a random occurrence

I think they wanted to ensure you were giving up something in order to get the evade token so you couldn't do something like the following

Roll 1 Hit, 1 eyeball, one blank.

Spend Target Lock to re-roll the two misses since you don't have a focus

Get a second hit and a blank.

Cancel useless blank to get an evade and still have two hits.

Of course, I'm not actually seeing the problem with that as I think about it since it's contingent on you having an unused die result, and conditional free actions usually cost 2-3 points.

well, the ARC-170 does look about fifty times cooler than the Y

Shara's advantage over Dutch is that she turns everyone else into redline (i.e "stacked Target-locks") for a mere 28 points and her own modifier. So, if you have a proton torp Y it can fire it off like ye old r4 aggro torp scout (provided you juggled two lower PS target-locks effectively and aren't just running Horton)

There's also the too obvious synergy with Norra

I personally don't rate either of these capabilities too highly as you can probably just purchase two self-sufficient pilots for the price of the one support-junkie and its enabler

Now, specifically Weapons Engineer Shara doesn't accomplish much because it doesn't actually help you focus down enemy targets. In my experience, spreading damage is one of the worst things you can do in this game if you have any intention of winning through ship kills. It's a very fringe benefit for a lot of points

Fickle: plays a dice game

Also fickle: bemoans that, by their very nature, dice aren't gauranteed.

Maybe play a different game dude.

Fickle: plays a dice game

Also fickle: bemoans that, by their very nature, dice aren't gauranteed.

Maybe play a different game dude.

seems to me there are plenty of upgrades in this game that don't roll dice in order to either work or do jack diddly

almost like too much random crap isn't a good idea, maybe

almost as if there were, oh I don't know, actual strategy and decision making in a game that wasn't only about dice?

balance in all things

otherwise, there's always Yahtzee

5 Stars for thread title.

5 Stars for thread title.

A soft, wet fart for the content.

5 Stars for thread title.

A soft, wet fart for the content.

shouldn't judge the entire thread just for the crap you posted, man, it's not fair