Now that it's been out for over a month, I was wondering what everyone's opinion of the expansion is (full disclosure: I'm still uncertain if I'm going to buy it).
I know that Union thinks everything in the expansion is rubbish, as he's commented on every thread that mentions it, but what about everyone else? Of particular interest:
How are the missions? The heroes? The new mercenary units? How's hide working out for everyone?
Edited by lowercaseMI've only done some skirmish stuff, but here are my thoughts:
I love it all.
I'll compare it to Twin Shadows (I'm a campaign player)
Twin Shadows Bespin Gambit
Heroes 1.5/5 4.5/5
Villians 2.5/5 3.5/5
Enemies 2.5/5 4/5
Allies 5/5 3.5/5
Missions 1/5 5/5
Supply crds1/5 3/5
Item crds3.5/5 2.5/5
Tiles 2.5/5 3.5/5
Conditions 2/5 5/5
Well there's my review. I think it's obvious which I prefer, and would recommend buying.
Sorry if this is a little confusing; it won't let me post with gaps between everything.
Edited by FelswrathAgent Blaise is the first competent and competitive unique Leader figure for the Imperials to use in Skirmish. Zillo Technique is also amazing. Cross Training can give your Elite Stormtroopers a nice competitive edge, especially vs other Elite Stormtroopers that don't take it.
So from a Skirmish perspective, I love it. Haven't done the campaign yet.
I like the mini-campaign it has some cool mission in it.
But i like everything imperial assault
But i like everything imperial assault
Pretty much my opinion as well haha.
Haven’t played through it yet, but from a campaign perspective, Davith and Murne seem like very competent heroes. Big Improvement over Saska and Biv (especially Biv).
My only issue is that I’m not a fan of heroes mowing down poor ugnaughts or winged guards but if you’re a skirmish player it doesn’t matter
I'll compare it to Twin Shadows (I'm a campaign player)
Twin Shadows Bespin Gambit
Heroes 1.5/5 4.5/5
Villians 2.5/5 3.5/5
Enemies 2.5/5 4/5
Allies 5/5 3.5/5
Missions 1/5 5/5
Supply crds1/5 3/5
Item crds3.5/5 2.5/5
Tiles 2.5/5 3.5/5
Conditions 2/5 5/5
Well there's my review. I think it's obvious which I prefer, and would recommend buying.
Sorry if this is a little confusing; it won't let me post with gaps between everything.
So if I'm reading this right, you rank Bespin gambit higher than twin shadows for everything except items and allies correct?
I'll compare it to Twin Shadows (I'm a campaign player)
Twin Shadows Bespin Gambit
Heroes 1.5/5 4.5/5
Villians 2.5/5 3.5/5
Enemies 2.5/5 4/5
Allies 5/5 3.5/5
Missions 1/5 5/5
Supply crds1/5 3/5
Item crds3.5/5 2.5/5
Tiles 2.5/5 3.5/5
Conditions 2/5 5/5
Well there's my review. I think it's obvious which I prefer, and would recommend buying.
Sorry if this is a little confusing; it won't let me post with gaps between everything.
So if I'm reading this right, you rank Bespin gambit higher than twin shadows for everything except items and allies correct?
You are reading it correctly. Yet again I apologize if it's a little confusing.
For skirmish, it's a great expansion.
Lots of cool new spies, Hide is great, Davith and Lando are pretty nice.
Bossk and Blaise are cool and Mercs finally get some decent troopers.
Ugnaughts are interesting at least.
Upgrades like Zillo and Cross Training are awesome
Overall, one of the better expansions for sure. Lots of usable figures and great upgrade and command cards.
No idea about the campaign side.
I would echo all the positive reviews on he skirmish side ( haven't played the campaign). I think the ugnaughts are a lost cause/wasted opportunity but the rebel characters are both awesome, wing guards are great and all of the expansions are stupendous
Lightning Review
2.5/5=average
Bought the entire wave, played all the box campaign story missions except 1 of the finales.
Box only
Heroes: 3.5/5
Imperial Class Deck: 2.5/5
Agenda Sets: 2.5/5
Villains: 4/5
Enemies: 2/5 (ISB Enforcers are 4/5)
Alliy: 3.5/5
Figures: 4.5/5
Missions: 4/5
Items: 4.5/5
Tiles: 5/5
Hidden Mechanic: 3.5/5
Companion Mechanic: 1.5/5 (3/5 in skirmish)
Skirmish
Deployments: 4.5/5
Command Cards: 4/5
Scenarios: Not Available
Skirmish:
- eWing Guards are great. I have two sets of them.
- Ugnaughts are somewhat special. But I try to fit one in any scum list.
- Davith ... see how many recent lists have him. Nuff said.
- Murne. Cool, but there are better support options with Rebels.
- Bossk. His command card alone makes him worth playing.
- Blaise. Fraking the opponents command deck? Yes, please. Hiding my Heavy Troopers? YES. The box is great for the command cards alone. Especially, if you like Saboteurs.
- Infiltrators are good. Not that the Empire needed more good units. The box is great for the command cards alone. Especially, if you like Saboteurs.
- Lando has no synergies that help other Rebels. Still for his points he's a bargain.
- Unshakable, Duress: In some lists, these are must haves.
Best wave 'til now.
Here's my take on the Bespin box + expansions:
In one sentence, Bespin was an overall good series of expansions, but with an odd running theme of giveth and taketh away.
Agent Blaise: Arguably the best figure released in this wave. The synergies are odd though: hiding a spy or a trooper when your opponent plays a card is situational for Imperials. -2 accuracy on defense is too easy for your opponent to play around, most times. Their only spies, ISBs, can hide themselves rather well, and stormtroopers often don't benefit from more than one surge. Blaise himself often gets too many surges for hiding himself to be beneficial. Regular heavy troopers don't do enough damage with their surges to be worth it really. Which leaves elite Heavies--which Blaise's ability is -awesome- with. So Blaise works best teamed with elite Heavies, which also work best with Targeting Computer.
(Side note: just a month or two ago, I was saying--accurately, I still think--that elite Heavies were not worth their additional cost, considering what they provided over the regulars. Interesting how a completely different card can suddenly reverse that!)
Wing Guards: Unfortunately, neither works very well. The regulars want adjacency, but not to themselves. And with the release of the Bantha, Bossk, and the new increased viability of Rebel Saboteurs (through omgwtfbbg AWESOME spy Command cards) and elite Heavy Stormtroopers (through Blaise)...your opponent more often than not wants them adjacent as well! Elite Wing Guards want adjacency, but not to themselves either. Except they do. Except they don't. Except...so what happens is you want at least one elite adjacent to both another Wing Guard (for rerolls) *and* a non-Guardian ally (for Keep the Peace). See above for all the blast/trample and watch your opponent start to drool--because now he's likely got a target that doesn't trigger Keep the Peace when attacked, and is adjacent to at least two other figures. Sure, positioning can mitigate some of that through line of sight blocking--but again, with these figures you're trying to meet directly conflicting needs. Neat concept, flawed execution. Giveth and taketh away.
Ugnaughts: speaking of flawed execution...don't get me wrong, I think the forum's overall dismissal of these figures is a mistake. But they're just not quite Tier 1 figures. Again, the proliferation of area damage means that your opponent can often destroy the Junk Droid at the cost of (at most) a surge, and it can be difficult to prevent that from happening. The Ugnaughts, both types, are just a fraction too expensive for what you get, unfortunately.
Bossk and Lando: good figures, arguably Tier 1. Very different in how they play; I've lumped them together because they suffer from the same primary issue: they have no synergy with other figures, and they're not powerful enough to be the start of a list. (Bossk can be part of a strain list--but strain lists remain distinctly Tier 2 atm. Fun to play, and you'll win some games if you play it well, but Tier 1 lists will reliably defeat them.) So Bossk doesn't fit well into a Bantha list, or a Wing Guard list, or...and Lando doesn't fit well into all the Jedi lists we're starting to see. I consider these two to be the sleeper hits of the wave: not much impact right now, but just wait! : )
ISB Infiltrators: neat concept, shaky execution. Only two figures in a group, so losing one drops your offensive power by more than any other group: about two-thirds. The elites can surge for pierce and hide, or for pierce and accuracy, which is actually rather useful--but Bespin also released the wonderful Zillo Technique at the same time. Giveth and taketh away. Overall, these figures just...don't quite make it. Fun and challenging to play casually, though!
Davith: Arguably the other best figure in the wave, and one of the VERY few rebel uniques accurately costed for what he brings. As a jedi, he synergizes well with the other rebel jedi that are only a little bit overcosted (instead of absurdly overcosted, like the majority of Rebel Uniques). Powerful figure, but hard to use properly.
Murne: GREAT concept, but just doesn't quite make the cut. False Orders requires her to be too close to the front lines, and she's just not tough enough to survive. Her saving grace is that at 4 points she can be splashed in--but so can any number of other low-cost rebel figures. It's a case of Murne being a good figure, but not as good as the already-available alternatives.
Command cards: Most of the new spy cards are awesome. Tough Luck is very useful as well. The named-figure cards are very good. The others, meh. --But still! That's a lot of useful new cards, for one wave!
Skirmish Upgrades: Zillo Technique is great. Headhunter seems tragically overlooked by players so far. Unshakable and Duress are too situational to be truly useful for their cost. Unshakable and Heroic Effort are nowhere near enough to achieve their goals: help make rebel uniques and high-cost imperial uniques actually worth playing. Cross Training is situationally useful--but only because spy Command cards are just that good.
So I got the infiltrators (because I'm tired of running storm troopers in the campaign app the time) and I'm quivering had anyone tried the mission that is included with it? It seems to be a very cool and unique mission, but does it work alright?
@IndyPendant
I agree with everything except the wing guard.
Regulars are weak, agreed, but so are all the other regular troopers. 3 health is just too squishy. Recover 1 on a 3 health unit is basically useless.
The elites however pack the same punch as elite stormies and can heal themselves, so that extra surge is rarely wasted.
To me, Keep the Peace is just a random bonus. I don't play for it, I don't care about it. Much like the stormtrooper Last Stand. Yes a free focus is nice, but having to lose a trooper for it isn't so great. It's a consolation prize.
I'm yet to properly test things out, but I still like Elite Wing Guard better on paper than Elite Stormies, which are already amazing.
That being said, Cross Training is imperial only and the Empire have lots more trooper based bonuses so Stormies probably come out on top overall, but not by much.
I'm also surprised how useless Under Duress feels.
On paper it looks amazing, but in practice, it's just a few extra damage because everyone chooses the damage. Even playing with/against a full Trando/Bossk list, both my opponent and I felt it just didn't have much of an effect.
Maybe against low figure count, high cost lists like Rebel heroes? Or hard to kill stuff like Vader, Luke, AT-ST. But in that case, it's too situational.
So I got the infiltrators (because I'm tired of running storm troopers in the campaign app the time) and I'm quivering had anyone tried the mission that is included with it? It seems to be a very cool and unique mission, but does it work alright?
My rebel players hated it because you can't plan at all during the mission. I think it's alright if the rebels remember to haul ass and not get stuck on the balcony.
@IndyPendant
I agree with everything except the wing guard.
Regulars are weak, agreed, but so are all the other regular troopers. 3 health is just too squishy. Recover 1 on a 3 health unit is basically useless.
The elites however pack the same punch as elite stormies and can heal themselves, so that extra surge is rarely wasted.
To me, Keep the Peace is just a random bonus. I don't play for it, I don't care about it. Much like the stormtrooper Last Stand. Yes a free focus is nice, but having to lose a trooper for it isn't so great. It's a consolation prize.
I'm yet to properly test things out, but I still like Elite Wing Guard better on paper than Elite Stormies, which are already amazing.
Quoted for truth.
So I got the infiltrators (because I'm tired of running storm troopers in the campaign app the time) and I'm quivering had anyone tried the mission that is included with it? It seems to be a very cool and unique mission, but does it work alright?
It is hard! My opponent (who is quite skilled) lost it terribly. His biggest mistake was not sending Mak on the search. Instead, the Bothan just sniped the first deployment wave (1 regular and one elite Probe Droid) the entire game. I think the only time he left the balcony was to grab he nearest crate when it was obvious that they had lost. If he had devoted everything to the fight, he probably could have done it.
For campaign Bespin is tragically bad. I mean, just wow. I'd rate every mission as being among the very worst out of every campaign or ally pack. Pure, unadulterated ****. You get to enjoy doing timed missions where you can do nothing but run around opening doors or hitting checkpoints except... you barely have enough time to do that and you can't... because the tight hallways are completely choked with Imperials. When you think you've won, an enemy appears that you need to kill or shove into a pit... except they immediately run away and time runs out and you auto-lose. Or you flub a roll to crack a safe and now the hallway behind you is choked with Imperials so even if you manage it, you lose. Or you try to rescue a prisoner, but you can't because there is a single Imperial on the map and he's standing too close and time runs out, so you lose. Such a crapfest.
The missions also seem set up just to screw with the Rebels. If you take Davith's light saber for the first mission, you'll find it's almost impossible to hit the cameras with it. If you buy Murn's cost reducer for the 2nd mission to make Lando cheaper, you'll find it's waste XP in the 4rth and final mission because you can't bring him!
Davith is weak, and you probably won't see him played much. Murn is mostly a weaker Gideon but is still fairly strong, but, why not just play Gideon whose best powers are more fun to play than a -4 threat reduction cost?
The class deck puts a range requirement on melee attacks which is the most retarded mechanic I've ever seen in a game. This makes things like the Vibro Sword better than a Light Saber because... stupid stupid stupid bloody mechanic. The whole idea of this attachment is to make it harder to see you which should hurt range, not turn most of the melee weapons in the supply deck into useless draws!
Ugnaughts are tougher than storm troopers... uh, okay. So consistency got thrown out the window here. They also share a single junk droid which is a really silly mechanic.
The R5 droid is retarded, in play it trundles around at it's speed 3 going for crates while the heroes end up on the other side of the map around 3 corners and the items it finds in the crates... magically appear in the controller's hands. Stupid, stupid stupid. Having the droid find some grenades several rounds of running away but having the hero immediately throw them was the most awkwardly stupid thing we've had for everyone at the table.
As for Bossk, Lando and Blaise, they play pretty well, but they're ally packs, not really Bespin.
Edited by UnionUnion...why do you even play this game?
@IndyPendant
I agree with everything except the wing guard.
Regulars are weak, agreed, but so are all the other regular troopers. 3 health is just too squishy. Recover 1 on a 3 health unit is basically useless.
The elites however pack the same punch as elite stormies and can heal themselves, so that extra surge is rarely wasted.
To me, Keep the Peace is just a random bonus. I don't play for it, I don't care about it. Much like the stormtrooper Last Stand. Yes a free focus is nice, but having to lose a trooper for it isn't so great. It's a consolation prize.
I'm yet to properly test things out, but I still like Elite Wing Guard better on paper than Elite Stormies, which are already amazing.
Quoted for truth.
Heh. These actually are good points, and something I admittedly hadn't thought of.
Surging for Recover 2 is better than surging for +2 accuracy, in most cases--although still situational, because for most attacks you're giving up a surge for damage to surge for recovery. I'm not sure Keep the Peace is any better than Last Stand though, since the occasional strain can easily be milled. At least Last Stand reliably deals an additional damage.
After some further thought, I would call it a bit of a wash instead, with -maybe- the elite Wing Guards edging out the Stormtroopers ever so slightly. But since Stormtroopers are such great figures for their cost, that's not exactly a bad thing! ; )
Just did Panic In The Streets. Verena locked herself in the safe room and cried in the corner at the death of her 3 allies on turn 5 before we called it. I probably shouldn't have dropped the E Engineer by the officer as the optional deployment as that is probably the strongest play, but I also didn't want drag out such a retardedly lopsided mission. Next mission is the other "must play regardless of win/lose" mission and even with the Rebels know where and when Bossk spawns, it's still going to be a curb stomping.
Bespin is a total *********** with 4 Heroes. It MIGHT be doable with 2 thanks to less actions required moving, or it might be doable if your team has Fenn, but otherwise, ******* avoid it. God **** it's a piece of ****. Again, the missions are among if not the worst among all the missions in the game.
After this Bespin we'll have done all the campaigns twice but we'll probably be doing skirmish next as Bespin has destroyed anyone's interest in doing more campaign.
Edited by UnionMy Bespin set arrives tomorrow and while I'll be running Twin Shadows first, I want to jump in while this conversation is happening and ask if it is possible that an Imperial player playing as a "nice GM" can make this campaign work or if it is just totally broken (not by throwing it, I just mean not being cutthroat). Also, I have 5 players interested in playing - would the presence of a 5th Rebel balance the scales?
So far we have votes for awesome and totally broken . You'll have to see for yourself which one it is for you. (And see that you play the missions correctly.)