Hey all,

I am a little confused when it comes to space ship combat and defense zones... Please excuse me if this has been discussed earlier, but I couldn't find it with my search skills at least

On page 235 in Core Rules it states that "When attacking a ship of silhouette 4 or lower, the defender chooses which defense zone the attack hits.", but on page 116 under the Piloting (Space) skill it says that "During a space conflict, pilots may often jockey for position to determine which shields face the enemy and which weapons may be brought to bear. When opponents attempt to negate these efforts, the winner is identified through an op posed Piloting (Space) check. "

So do we roll opposed piloting checks on each attack to determine the defense zones? Or is it just if the pilot explicitly tries to hit a particular defense zone? Any pilot would probably try to hit the least defended zone at all times though...

Found it, in the FAQ no less... :-)

"There are situations where the rule of “defender chooses the zone” does not apply, whether because the defender is silhouette 5 or larger, or because the rule does not work within the ongoing narrative"

What if you angle your deflector shields, does the defender then get to use the inflated defenses in shots by silhouettes smaller than 5? If so, it seems like a no brainer to angle first above all else.

Hey all,

I am a little confused when it comes to space ship combat and defense zones... Please excuse me if this has been discussed earlier, but I couldn't find it with my search skills at least

On page 235 in Core Rules it states that "When attacking a ship of silhouette 4 or lower, the defender chooses which defense zone the attack hits.", but on page 116 under the Piloting (Space) skill it says that "During a space conflict, pilots may often jockey for position to determine which shields face the enemy and which weapons may be brought to bear. When opponents attempt to negate these efforts, the winner is identified through an op posed Piloting (Space) check. "

So do we roll opposed piloting checks on each attack to determine the defense zones? Or is it just if the pilot explicitly tries to hit a particular defense zone? Any pilot would probably try to hit the least defended zone at all times though...

Good for finding the FAQ, but I'll give you some more details anyway.

When dealing with Sil 4 craft and smaller the Defender chooses the zone being fired on as the default. The attacker can then use actions of his own to shift that selection over to his side of the table. The two most common being an opposed check, or the Gain The Advantage special action. Small fast craft will usually want to use GtA since it also allows other effects to put into play, one of which being that (depending on which dev you ask) GtA specifices not only the arc you can hit, but also the arc from which weapons can return fire from. This is also why the opposed option exists. If you're in a slower, less maneuverable craft and an opponent GtA's you you might not be able to GtA back, so an opposed check can be used to at least give you a chance to return fire.

So now you'll see there's some actual tactical decision making in vehicle combat when dealing with shielded craft. For example, the other fighter might put all defense rear, so when you GtA you have to make a decision. Do you designate the rear arc as your target, knowing the difficulty will be greater? Or do you target the front arc for the reduced difficulty, but also giving the option for your target to just skip the counter-GtA and shoot you in the face?

This is also why TIE Fighters make some sense within the system. While weak, with their high speed and handling they can approach fast, take evasive action, and then GtA and usually keep it, allowing them to ignore the Evasive penalty AND stay out of their targets gunsights. Next turn they Stay On Target, and open fire, with luck activating Linked and doing significant damage to the target. If the target is another Starfighter... yeah... (On a related note, as a GM it's ok to pull punches and not activate linked all the time, especially early in a campaign)

Sil 5 and greater craft track arcs more conventionally. So if you want to pick an arc to fire on in that case, you'd actually fly yourself over to that side of it. This is what the Fly/Drive rules mean when they say "move within the close range band." It's saying if you are already at close range to a star destroyer but on it's starboard side, and you want to move to the port side, but not add any actual distance, you would need to move within (inside of) the close band.

What if you angle your deflector shields, does the defender then get to use the inflated defenses in shots by silhouettes smaller than 5? If so, it seems like a no brainer to angle first above all else.

It depends on the tactical situation in the battle itself, but that's kinda the thing. Action and Maneuver economy is a pretty big deal, so while you may want to move shields around a lot, you may have other maneuvers you need to take that are a higher priority at that moment.

And the arc selection thing also applies to shots coming from Sil 5 and above. So if you're attacking a capital ship that doesn't have fighter support, stack up those shields.

How do defense zones come into play with a ship larger than Sil4 but with either Nightshadow Coating or a pilot using Tricky Target? Both of which say to "Count vehicle or starship piloted as having a silhouette 1 lower when being attacked." and "when in combat". Which would reduce the effective Sil to 4 (or 3 with both on a Sil5 ship). Does the ship retain all 4 defense arcs? Or does it somehow revert to Fore/Aft only that Sil4 and less are supposed to have?

As I typed this I realized Tricky Target may not be in EotE and only in AoR, but I think there's enough overlap.

How do defense zones come into play with a ship larger than Sil4 but with either Nightshadow Coating or a pilot using Tricky Target? Both of which say to "Count vehicle or starship piloted as having a silhouette 1 lower when being attacked." and "when in combat". Which would reduce the effective Sil to 4 (or 3 with both on a Sil5 ship). Does the ship retain all 4 defense arcs? Or does it somehow revert to Fore/Aft only that Sil4 and less are supposed to have?

As I typed this I realized Tricky Target may not be in EotE and only in AoR, but I think there's enough overlap.

Well I'm sure it doesn't change the defensive arcs available, they would still be the usual four, as "counting as" and "being" are two totally different things.

However that does bring up the better question of if a Sil 5/6 ship with those talents and gear in effect would allow the defender to select the arc of incoming fire...

I mean, I assume not, that those things just allow the Sil difference to count when generating the To-Hit base difficulty, but it's totally possible I'm assuming wrong there.

I would say Tricky Target allows you to pilot a vehicle as if it were a vehicle 1 Sil less than it was. So I would say it affects targeting by attackers and allows the pilot of that vehicle to choose the defending zone when attacked by a larger Sil vehicle. But it doesn't change the defense zones from 4 to 2 in the case of Sil 5 going to a Sil 4. That is how I envision it as the talent is named "Tricky Target."

Nightshadow Coating makes a vehicle harder to detect. The additional Mod for it reduces the Sil by 1 in combat, making it harder to hit but it doesn't improve the pilot's ability to handle the vehicle.

I may be taking the descriptives literally but it does make sense cinematically.

How do defense zones come into play with a ship larger than Sil4 but with either Nightshadow Coating or a pilot using Tricky Target? Both of which say to "Count vehicle or starship piloted as having a silhouette 1 lower when being attacked." and "when in combat". Which would reduce the effective Sil to 4 (or 3 with both on a Sil5 ship). Does the ship retain all 4 defense arcs? Or does it somehow revert to Fore/Aft only that Sil4 and less are supposed to have?

As I typed this I realized Tricky Target may not be in EotE and only in AoR, but I think there's enough overlap.

Well I'm sure it doesn't change the defensive arcs available, they would still be the usual four, as "counting as" and "being" are two totally different things.

However that does bring up the better question of if a Sil 5/6 ship with those talents and gear in effect would allow the defender to select the arc of incoming fire...

I mean, I assume not, that those things just allow the Sil difference to count when generating the To-Hit base difficulty, but it's totally possible I'm assuming wrong there.

Wouldn't they say have mentioned 'when determining difficulty' in their descriptions then? Since there's two cases of it happening between two different books it shouldn't be a case of unintended wording, and choosing the arc to hit is part of the process that 'being attacked' and 'being in combat' involve.

I would say Tricky Target allows you to pilot a vehicle as if it were a vehicle 1 Sil less than it was. So I would say it affects targeting by attackers and allows the pilot of that vehicle to choose the defending zone when attacked by a larger Sil vehicle. But it doesn't change the defense zones from 4 to 2 in the case of Sil 5 going to a Sil 4. That is how I envision it as the talent is named "Tricky Target."

Nightshadow Coating makes a vehicle harder to detect. The additional Mod for it reduces the Sil by 1 in combat, making it harder to hit but it doesn't improve the pilot's ability to handle the vehicle.

I may be taking the descriptives literally but it does make sense cinematically.

I agree with Tricky Target, but for the Coating remember that targeting systems rely on that information. It may not physically handle any better for the pilot, but it could "spoof" a targeting system perhaps by causing it to appear in slightly different positions. Obviously your eye would see it where it is but the reticle that's trying to line up your shot would think it's 20m to the left. I'm not entirely sure that could explain not being able to choose the arc as the attacker but fighting your own weapon to aim properly seems like it might have that effect. Or as a compromise the attacker would choose the arc but the defender could move it to an adjacent arc, but that's definitely homebrew.

How do defense zones come into play with a ship larger than Sil4 but with either Nightshadow Coating or a pilot using Tricky Target? Both of which say to "Count vehicle or starship piloted as having a silhouette 1 lower when being attacked." and "when in combat". Which would reduce the effective Sil to 4 (or 3 with both on a Sil5 ship). Does the ship retain all 4 defense arcs? Or does it somehow revert to Fore/Aft only that Sil4 and less are supposed to have?

As I typed this I realized Tricky Target may not be in EotE and only in AoR, but I think there's enough overlap.

Well I'm sure it doesn't change the defensive arcs available, they would still be the usual four, as "counting as" and "being" are two totally different things.

However that does bring up the better question of if a Sil 5/6 ship with those talents and gear in effect would allow the defender to select the arc of incoming fire...

I mean, I assume not, that those things just allow the Sil difference to count when generating the To-Hit base difficulty, but it's totally possible I'm assuming wrong there.

Wouldn't they say have mentioned 'when determining difficulty' in their descriptions then? Since there's two cases of it happening between two different books it shouldn't be a case of unintended wording, and choosing the arc to hit is part of the process that 'being attacked' and 'being in combat' involve.

I would say Tricky Target allows you to pilot a vehicle as if it were a vehicle 1 Sil less than it was. So I would say it affects targeting by attackers and allows the pilot of that vehicle to choose the defending zone when attacked by a larger Sil vehicle. But it doesn't change the defense zones from 4 to 2 in the case of Sil 5 going to a Sil 4. That is how I envision it as the talent is named "Tricky Target."

Nightshadow Coating makes a vehicle harder to detect. The additional Mod for it reduces the Sil by 1 in combat, making it harder to hit but it doesn't improve the pilot's ability to handle the vehicle.

I may be taking the descriptives literally but it does make sense cinematically.

I agree with Tricky Target, but for the Coating remember that targeting systems rely on that information. It may not physically handle any better for the pilot, but it could "spoof" a targeting system perhaps by causing it to appear in slightly different positions. Obviously your eye would see it where it is but the reticle that's trying to line up your shot would think it's 20m to the left. I'm not entirely sure that could explain not being able to choose the arc as the attacker but fighting your own weapon to aim properly seems like it might have that effect. Or as a compromise the attacker would choose the arc but the defender could move it to an adjacent arc, but that's definitely homebrew.

A fair point. I hadn't thought of that.

I would say Tricky Target allows you to pilot a vehicle as if it were a vehicle 1 Sil less than it was. So I would say it affects targeting by attackers and allows the pilot of that vehicle to choose the defending zone when attacked by a larger Sil vehicle. But it doesn't change the defense zones from 4 to 2 in the case of Sil 5 going to a Sil 4. That is how I envision it as the talent is named "Tricky Target."

Nightshadow Coating makes a vehicle harder to detect. The additional Mod for it reduces the Sil by 1 in combat, making it harder to hit but it doesn't improve the pilot's ability to handle the vehicle.

I may be taking the descriptives literally but it does make sense cinematically.

Tricky target specifies "when being attacked" so you don't get to count as being one smaller except when it comes to resolving the actual hit.

I would say Tricky Target allows you to pilot a vehicle as if it were a vehicle 1 Sil less than it was. So I would say it affects targeting by attackers and allows the pilot of that vehicle to choose the defending zone when attacked by a larger Sil vehicle. But it doesn't change the defense zones from 4 to 2 in the case of Sil 5 going to a Sil 4. That is how I envision it as the talent is named "Tricky Target."

Nightshadow Coating makes a vehicle harder to detect. The additional Mod for it reduces the Sil by 1 in combat, making it harder to hit but it doesn't improve the pilot's ability to handle the vehicle.

I may be taking the descriptives literally but it does make sense cinematically.

Tricky target specifies "when being attacked" so you don't get to count as being one smaller except when it comes to resolving the actual hit.

Deciding which arc the hit lands on, and also who makes that decision is in the same phase as resolving the hit though. It all happens during the "Assemble the Dice Pool" phase because the number of defense in an arc effects the pool.

Unless you were expanding this to say that it would not allow the ship to perform maneuvers with a Sil requirement smaller than the ship, in which case I agree. Those happen outside the attack.

I would say Tricky Target allows you to pilot a vehicle as if it were a vehicle 1 Sil less than it was. So I would say it affects targeting by attackers and allows the pilot of that vehicle to choose the defending zone when attacked by a larger Sil vehicle. But it doesn't change the defense zones from 4 to 2 in the case of Sil 5 going to a Sil 4. That is how I envision it as the talent is named "Tricky Target."

Nightshadow Coating makes a vehicle harder to detect. The additional Mod for it reduces the Sil by 1 in combat, making it harder to hit but it doesn't improve the pilot's ability to handle the vehicle.

I may be taking the descriptives literally but it does make sense cinematically.

Tricky target specifies "when being attacked" so you don't get to count as being one smaller except when it comes to resolving the actual hit.

I should have worded that first sentence better. I wasn't stating that Tricky Target allows a Sil 5 to use maneuvers as a Sil 4 could, just that it allows a Sil 5 to behave as a Sil 4 as it comes under fire during a combat check. Specifically, being able choose which Defense zone the shot is directed.

Yes, thought you proposing a sil 5 ship could maneuver as a 4.

I disagree with the defensive zone thing, but respect your opinion.