I know that when you do a maneuver, and you end the movement with a part of your base overlapping another ships base, you its considered and overlap, and you are placed touching bases with the other ship along the bearing that you used.
What if you don't overlap, and actually end you movement next to the ship, so that they are basically touching without an overlap, is that considered an overlap? Is it still effected as being in contact (touching) another ship? (no firing)
Discuss! Thanks!
Short answer: no.
Long answer: "touching" is a game state that can only be arrived at through an overlap. The simplest example of real-world touching that doesn't result in game-state "touching" is doing a barrel roll and sliding your base right up against another ship's base. You're obviously touching in the real world, but for game purposes, you aren't.
Digitalbusker has it answered pretty well.
There is "physically adjacent" which looks like "touching" but isn't really when it comes to the rules. The only way to establish touching which can stop the Perform Action step and attacks between the two ships is after an overlap situation has occurred. Once established touching CAN remain provided neither ship moves at all be that because they perform a Stop maneuver or because they happen to be blocked back into the starting position.
One guideline we use is that when we think a move will be close, we hold the template and ship base or obstacle in place. If you ship fits on the end of the template without forcing movement of the ship base or obstacle, it is not an overlap and normal actions are allowed. If the ship cant sit flat on the mat, then it's an overlap.
I'm new to the game and still sort of confused on the contact issues. Are you penalized at all for touching your own ships? Do you lose an action or the ability to attack?
I'm new to the game and still sort of confused on the contact issues. Are you penalized at all for touching your own ships? Do you lose an action or the ability to attack?
Yeah, more or less. If you're executing a maneuver and overlap another ship, you lose the action for the ship that's maneuvering, regardless of whether the ship you overlapped is friendly.
Obviously the other main result of "touching", i.e. you can't attack each other, doesn't matter for friendly ships that are touching each other.
The game does not distinguish between overlapping hostile or friendly ships. A few upgrades may make a distinction but those are the exceptions.
An example to test this rule.
A B-Wing is nose to nose with a Decimator and were considered touching. If the B-Wing performs a speed 2 K-Turn to end up directly behind the Decimator, are they still touching? given the Large ship base looks to be the same length as that of a speed 2 maneuver.
Short answer: no.
Long answer: "touching" is a game state that can only be arrived at through an overlap. The simplest example of real-world touching that doesn't result in game-state "touching" is doing a barrel roll and sliding your base right up against another ship's base. You're obviously touching in the real world, but for game purposes, you aren't.
i think theres also a faq about ships that overlapped one round perform the same exact move are not considered touching, even though they technically are.
An example to test this rule.
A B-Wing is nose to nose with a Decimator and were considered touching. If the B-Wing performs a speed 2 K-Turn to end up directly behind the Decimator, are they still touching? given the Large ship base looks to be the same length as that of a speed 2 maneuver.
From the FAQ, p5:
"Sometimes a round will end with two ships touching each other, parallel, and facing the same direction. After both ships execute a maneuver of the same speed or perform the same boost or barrel roll action, they are not touching even if their bases are still in physical contact (unless they overlapped)."
This doesn't exactly describe the situation, but it seems to account for that fact that touching is not equal to overlapping, and that certain moves after an overlap result in a touch but not an overlap. I would say that if the B-Wing Edge was flat against the Decimator edge, then the 2 K-turn would not overlap.
An example to test this rule.
A B-Wing is nose to nose with a Decimator and were considered touching. If the B-Wing performs a speed 2 K-Turn to end up directly behind the Decimator, are they still touching? given the Large ship base looks to be the same length as that of a speed 2 maneuver.
A couple things to consider...
In many cases, the front nubs of the ship bases will add a fraction of an inch of space between the 2 ship bases. Because of this, a 2-k-turn will NOT clear the Decimator's base.
However, if the ships are offset in such a way that the bases are only partially bumping in to each other and the nubs are not involved, then a 2 k-turn is theoretically the exact same length as the Decimator's base. You will need to decide with your opponent if the maneuver clears the ship or not as it will depend on small factors specific to your game (variance in base and template size, slight angles between the ships, etc).
Depending on what you decide, you'll be in one of these 2 cases:
To expand on Klutz's outcomes if the B-Wing does get to perform that K-turn and somehow land it "behind" the Decimator without touching (this is unlikely) not only could the B-Wing attack the Decimator but the Decimator can also attack the B-Wing.
The times a ship can just "jump" from contact with one side of a ship to the other and avoid overlapping are extremely rare especially in the real world. Even that FAQ quote Cerevant provides could be misleading as there are still not guarantees the back ship would successfully jump the front ship if it moves first.
In the majority of cases, a 2 straight or 2K is not enough to clear a large base ship.
I think the odds are approximately 3,720 to 1.
Never tell me the odds!
An example to test this rule.
A B-Wing is nose to nose with a Decimator and were considered touching. If the B-Wing performs a speed 2 K-Turn to end up directly behind the Decimator, are they still touching? given the Large ship base looks to be the same length as that of a speed 2 maneuver.
If you can put the ship down without moving the other ship you're clear.
That being said, the 2k is too short to clear a Decimator.
Edited by Blue Five
An example to test this rule.
A B-Wing is nose to nose with a Decimator and were considered touching. If the B-Wing performs a speed 2 K-Turn to end up directly behind the Decimator, are they still touching? given the Large ship base looks to be the same length as that of a speed 2 maneuver.
If you can put the ship down without moving the other ship you're clear.
That being said, the 2k is too short to clear a Decimator.
Large base is movement distance 2.
If the B-Wing is touching at 2 points (both nubs touching the edge of the base) it will mathematically clear - if it doesn't, it either wasn't touching to begin with, or you did it wrong.
If one or both of the B-Wing's nubs are touching one or both of the Decimator's nubs, then it will not clear - the movement will be short by the length of the nubs.
If the B-Wing is touching the Decimator's base at only one point then the angle might be off, and it could overlap on the other side.
Edit: this stuff is all wrong, please ignore.
Edited by Cerevant
An example to test this rule.
A B-Wing is nose to nose with a Decimator and were considered touching. If the B-Wing performs a speed 2 K-Turn to end up directly behind the Decimator, are they still touching? given the Large ship base looks to be the same length as that of a speed 2 maneuver.
If you can put the ship down without moving the other ship you're clear.
That being said, the 2k is too short to clear a Decimator.
Large base is movement distance 2.
If the B-Wing is touching at 2 points (both nubs touching the edge of the base) it will mathematically clear - if it doesn't, it either wasn't touching to begin with, or you did it wrong.
If one or both of the B-Wing's nubs are touching one or both of the Decimator's nubs, then it will not clear - the movement will be short by the length of the nubs.
If the B-Wing is touching the Decimator's base at only one point then the angle might be off, and it could overlap on the other side.
It isn't. The Large base is slightly longer than a speed 2 maneuver template. Grab a template and a base and compare.
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If you can put the ship down without moving the other ship you're clear.
That being said, the 2k is too short to clear a Decimator.
Large base is movement distance 2.
If the B-Wing is touching at 2 points (both nubs touching the edge of the base) it will mathematically clear - if it doesn't, it either wasn't touching to begin with, or you did it wrong.
If one or both of the B-Wing's nubs are touching one or both of the Decimator's nubs, then it will not clear - the movement will be short by the length of the nubs.
If the B-Wing is touching the Decimator's base at only one point then the angle might be off, and it could overlap on the other side.
You realize that even if the 2 straight was exactly the same length of a large base, or even a hair longer, it would NOT clear! You put your template against the BASE between the nubs so the nubs are outside of the template and that needs to be the case for both sides.
In order to clear a base the template would need to be a touch longer than the base's side PLUS the length of two nubs. Even if 1 straight = length of a small base side and 2 straight = length of large base side (which is only true when you happen to find a short base and a long template) you still have to contend with the nubs that stick out both ends of a ship.
The only way a ship could possibly pass to the opposite side of one it is touching is if the maneuver template never needs to pass under/over/through/ the other ship's base. You might manage to scrape down the edge of the hull but that's about it.
It isn't. The Large base is slightly longer than a speed 2 maneuver template. Grab a template and a base and compare.
Front to back it is exact for both my TFA template and Team Covenant acrylic. Side to side it is not (due to the flared edges on the sides) - hadn't notice that before. This is true for Large ship bases and Huge ship bases (I use both for large ships, and checked both to be sure)
You realize that even if the 2 straight was exactly the same length of a large base, or even a hair longer, it would NOT clear! You put your template against the BASE between the nubs so the nubs are outside of the template and that needs to be the case for both sides.
In order to clear a base the template would need to be a touch longer than the base's side PLUS the length of two nubs. Even if 1 straight = length of a small base side and 2 straight = length of large base side (which is only true when you happen to find a short base and a long template) you still have to contend with the nubs that stick out both ends of a ship.
This is correct, full on derp to me.
There is exactly one situation where you could do a 2k around a large base: If the front corner of the B-Wing's base edge (not nubs) was flush against the front or rear corner of the Decimator so that the there was no contact with the nubs of either ship, then it would be an exact move & touch. If the nubs are involved at all, no go. If the move is side to side of the large ship base, no go.
Edited by Cerevant
This is correct, full on derp to me.
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As long as you realize the mistake then you've gotten something out of it and may have helped someone else avoid the issue. While it may seem we come down hard on people making those types of errors what we're usually doing is coming down hard on the error to make sure it is noticed and corrected. You've probably heard the saying that if you tell a lie enough times people will begin to believe it but here we try hard to make sure everyone knows when the lie is showing up.
It seems the majority of responses tend to favour this move likely triggering an overlap. Cheers.