I feel like there aren't enough lists that are cramped enough for Ruthlessness to trigger, except for TIE Swarm. Sure, you can control their range with the threat of splash damage causing them to space out their units, but I don't think that's as beneficial as landing consistent hits on a target, especially for an EPT that costs 3 points. I'd rather run VI or possibly Lone Wolf on Vessery for a competitive initiative or some defensive re-rolls. Crack Shot might even be the best option on something like an Ion/D or Tractor/D Vessery to guarantee the control cannon's shot will hit, popping off an evade die on top of a TL would be pretty nasty.

I've been using Vessery as a setup man in the few games I have played with the new xD. I've used VI on him to get him up to 8 and then the Inquisitor and Vader (using Adaptibility to put him at 8 if there are no aces)..

What do you drop from the standard builds for those ships to get to 100pts:

Vesery + Vader + Inq (102):

Colonel Vessery (37) - TIE Defender

Veteran Instincts (1), Tractor Beam (1), TIE/D (0)

Darth Vader (34) - TIE Advanced

Adaptability (0), TIE/x1 (0), Engine Upgrade (4), Advanced Targeting Computer (5)

The Inquisitor (31) - TIE Adv. Prototype

Push The Limit (3), TIE/v1 (1), Autothrusters (2)

probably drops the autos on inquis or puts a 1/2pt upgrade on vader, since EU can be ignored if you fly him with other ships. Its best when hes flanking.

Personally i'd rather Vessery have Mk2 and be at 99pts than Vader have boost. Vader doesnt "need" boost, but the moment you face a stresser and your defender isnt Ryad or doesnt have Mk2 he NEEDS mk2 to function lol

Yeah my avp list your talking about doesn't use EU the whole point is to joust, vessery let's you pop a ship early then you break off and use number advantage to finish the rest off.

It's one of my better lists, but of course not the best.

Tie D is great but against high agility ships such as imperial aces it's not that great. If there were more rebel ships in play it'd be really good. A lot easier to push that Tractor Beam or ion cannon through. But with the meta currently X/7 is just too good not to choose I think. Tie D will get more popular I think as the meta changes.

I'm certainly looking forward to giving it a try. I ran 3xGlaives w/ x7 and Crack earlier this week and it was an absolute terror.

Tie D is great but against high agility ships such as imperial aces it's not that great. If there were more rebel ships in play it'd be really good. A lot easier to push that Tractor Beam or ion cannon through. But with the meta currently X/7 is just too good not to choose I think. Tie D will get more popular I think as the meta changes.

Yeah /D is fine vs imp aces and could overpower rebel regen but u boat alpha strikes would wreck them.

For now x7 is the better choice but the meta always shifts /D will have its day.

Does everyone understand that Vassery's free Target Lock only happens if some other friendly ship already has a target lock on his target.

Does everyone understand that Vassery's free Target Lock only happens if some other friendly ship already has a target lock on his target.

Pssst we have ships with the TL action for a little while now.

I want to try and modify the old Jonus bros but replace HLC with Tractor beam. Ah look a TIE Fighter in block formation we will just have to pull this on along the side and hit it while it only has 2 green die and then pull it out further and hit it with only 1 green die and if it is still alive give it some stress.

Tie/D is very good. Use the Ion Cannon for optimal advantage. Low evade ships will quickly find there movement controlled. More agile ships may not always take an ion token, but when they do, your advantage. The largest issue with the Tie/D title is that it doesn't provide a cost reduction or bonus evade token. As a player you have to decide if the ability of pushing one additional damage/ion token a turn is more value than a slight increase in survivability while being able to field a slightly better ship with your extra squad points.

Question: is the 0 cost TIE Defender upgrade any good? All I hear is that the x7 is amazing and the TIE xD just isn't good enough. What are the community's thoughts/math on this? Thanks!

I ran a list with two Glaives with ion cannons and Dark Curse, and the double taps were just too much concentrated firepower for the opponent's Vessery/Maarek/TIE Shuttle build to handle. All it took was an eventual Ion hit to start spreading the squad farther apart, and from there the unmerciful beatings commenced and repeated until Maarek got walked off the board and my opponent conceded the rest of the match (a half health Vessery and a bomber v. my mostly untouched squad).

Question: is the 0 cost TIE Defender upgrade any good? All I hear is that the x7 is amazing and the TIE xD just isn't good enough. What are the community's thoughts/math on this? Thanks!

I take what people say as a guide. Sometimes different play styles calls for different ships. I like both titles that Imp vets bought out, sometimes you feel like racing around like an idiot, other times you feel like rolling the red dice and hoping the green gods have forsaken your enemy.

I think X7's have the limelight at the moment because they can really reduce the impact a U boat list can have on them.

I've been having great success with Tie/D. I'm not going to go into great detail with nationals looming but my squad will almost certainly contain one Tie/D defender.

I think the Tie/D vs X/7 debate is very much akin to the chaardan refit vs prockets on a-wings argument. X/7 and the refit are absolute no brainers, bringing only good stuff to the table. This means that despite Tie/D and prockets being awesome cards in their own right they now have a drawback; they effectively cost +2points due to the autoincludeness of the alternatives.

that being said however, Jake will easily make get his money's worth out of those prockets, and there are certainly tie/d builds out there I have flown which will get way more mileage for you out of the D title than they ever would with the X/7.

The best part of all of this is I was relatively happy with where the Defender was before the titles. Now they have something I never dreamed they would. Options! Lots and lots of options!!

I think the Tie/D vs X/7 debate is very much akin to the chaardan refit vs prockets on a-wings argument. X/7 and the refit are absolute no brainers, bringing only good stuff to the table. This means that despite Tie/D and prockets being awesome cards in their own right they now have a drawback; they effectively cost +2points due to the autoincludeness of the alternatives.

that being said however, Jake will easily make get his money's worth out of those prockets, and there are certainly tie/d builds out there I have flown which will get way more mileage for you out of the D title than they ever would with the X/7.

EDIT: Responded to question from a different thread.

I like both titles that Imp vets bought out, sometimes you feel like racing around like an idiot, other times you feel like rolling the red dice and hoping the green gods have forsaken your enemy.

One of the things I really like about TIE/D is that it gives your opponent so many chances for their green dice to forsake them. Against high AGI ships, you're usually only getting one damage through defenses anyway, so the TIE/D cannon is effectively doubling your firepower. Against low defense stuff, it's close to an auto hit, which makes for easy control.

One of the things I really like about TIE/D is that it gives your opponent so many chances for their green dice to forsake them. Against high AGI ships, you're usually only getting one damage through defenses anyway, so the TIE/D cannon is effectively doubling your firepower. Against low defense stuff, it's close to an auto hit, which makes for easy control.

Agreed. I've always thought that expensive ships almost need a second shot style mechanic to effectively pull their weight. When you're investing 1/3 to 1/2 of your points in a single ship, you can't risk it whiffing on it's attacks, and that's one of the things (along with sketchy action economy) that used to really hold the TIE Defender back in everything but the hands of diehard Defender fans like Hobo, Ashey and yourself Biophyscal.

A lot of large based ships like Fat Han, Decimators or named Firesprays really benefit from Gunner. The Aggressors have IG88B. Corran Horn has his double tap, Dengar shoots back, now Defenders can get a second shot as well.

A few ships bucked this rule - notably the likes of HLC Dash and Whisper - where 4 dice, movement shenanigans plus good action economy can be enough to reliably hit your target, but if you're running a 2-3 ship list, you want to make the most of all of your attacks.

I worry now for low agility ships, especially Y-Wings, B-Wings, K-Wings, Punishers... the resurgence of ordnance and multi-shot attacks is going to hit the ships which rely on soaking damage rather than avoiding it hard.

Tie D is great but against high agility ships such as imperial aces it's not that great.

Strongly disagree.

You put a tractor beam shot on Soontir Fel, then watch your opponent agonise over spending one of his precious tokens and/or palpatine to avoid a no-damage hit (knowing that if he doesn't he's just gone from 3(or 4 with SD) to 2 agility, with another modified(if Vessery has his ability available) shot inbound.

Personally I'm liking Vessery, X7 Ryad and the Inquisitor, thusly:

I note in passing that three PS 1 Defenders with Ion Cannons apeice boast six three die* attacks with eighteen hitpoints.

While they have half the tokens to modify dice accordingly, this is otherwise the statline of no less than six alpha squadron interceptors.

Though it's only three PS1 generics, this is actually a lot of raw jousting... and even with the limited mods, any ships that get ion'd against the kings of k-turns are going to be in big trouble.

Perfect list? Goodness, no - but then, few pure jouster lists ever are.

But a useful comparison point before writing the guns off entirely.

Three of those six dice attacks are also ion attacks that ignore range 3 bonuses, and they don't have to make the choice of firing one or the other, they can fire both.

Which really underscores the concern I have for the low agility ships outlined above.

I worry now for low agility ships, especially Y-Wings, B-Wings, K-Wings, Punishers... the resurgence of ordnance and multi-shot attacks is going to hit the ships which rely on soaking damage rather than avoiding it hard.

I think TIE/Ds do hit low AGI ships pretty hard, especially small ones, but I don't really agree with the ordnance argument. 4-hit attacks are generally worse for high AGI than low AGI because they break through the defense that AGI provides, and HP of AGI3 ships are, point for point, less than AGI1 ships. Look at ~25 points of ship. Option 1: Y-wing with TLT. A Proton Torpedo with chips probably does 4 hits, so it will take 2 shots to kill a Y-wing IF it gets 4 dice each time AND the Y-wing can't manage a symbol either time it rolls defense, so it probably takes 2 Torpedoes and a little extra to kill it. In contrast, look at, say, Omega Leader. OL can lock down one source of torpedoes, which translates into probably 2 incoming hits from that torpedo. She probably dodges one and can spend her banked Evade on another. The second torpedo is defended against only by naked green dice, so 3 hits probably get through, leaving her with 1 hull, but this is taking into account OL's fantastic pilot ability to blunt the first torpedo strike. Similar ships without her ability would be dead.

Obviously, the situation shifts depending on the exact situation, but generally high-hit attacks hurt high AGI ships as much or more than low AGI ships.

Tie D is great but against high agility ships such as imperial aces it's not that great.

Strongly disagree.

You put a tractor beam shot on Soontir Fel, then watch your opponent agonise over spending one of his precious tokens and/or palpatine to avoid a no-damage hit (knowing that if he doesn't he's just gone from 3(or 4 with SD) to 2 agility, with another modified(if Vessery has his ability available) shot inbound.

There's not really any agonizing, honestly. Assuming Fel is at Range 3 (where he is preferred), a Tractor hit is a 3 dice + Autothrusters swing. He goes from 5 dice+Autothrusters against the followup primary attack to 2 AGI as his Stealth Device fails, he picks up a Tractor Beam token, and as he is probably moved into Range 2 with the TB movement. If the TB defies odds and gets through unmodified greens + Autothrusters, token expenditure is really not optional.

I note in passing that three PS 1 Defenders with Ion Cannons apeice boast six three die* attacks with eighteen hitpoints.

While they have half the tokens to modify dice accordingly, this is otherwise the statline of no less than six alpha squadron interceptors.

Though it's only three PS1 generics, this is actually a lot of raw jousting... and even with the limited mods, any ships that get ion'd against the kings of k-turns are going to be in big trouble.

Perfect list? Goodness, no - but then, few pure jouster lists ever are.

But a useful comparison point before writing the guns off entirely.

Similarly, you can do 2 ace defenders with 4 attacks between them. Since Defender PS is pretty cheap, you're getting roughly 4 medium sized ships' worth of firepower at PS6+.

Strongly disagree.

You put a tractor beam shot on Soontir Fel, then watch your opponent agonise over spending one of his precious tokens and/or palpatine to avoid a no-damage hit (knowing that if he doesn't he's just gone from 3(or 4 with SD) to 2 agility, with another modified(if Vessery has his ability available) shot inbound.

There's not really any agonizing, honestly. Assuming Fel is at Range 3 (where he is preferred), a Tractor hit is a 3 dice + Autothrusters swing. He goes from 5 dice+Autothrusters against the followup primary attack to 2 AGI as his Stealth Device fails, he picks up a Tractor Beam token, and as he is probably moved into Range 2 with the TB movement. If the TB defies odds and gets through unmodified greens + Autothrusters, token expenditure is really not optional.

Basically anything which can force aces to spend tokens before you put your real shots into them is good for business in my view, and 3+3 modified red dice (on Vessery) or 3 modified + 3 unmodified (or vice versa) dice (on the others) isn't a terrible way of going about that - especially when it's on one ship (meaning once you've got that one arc on him, you get two shots).

I think TIE/Ds do hit low AGI ships pretty hard, especially small ones, but I don't really agree with the ordnance argument. 4-hit attacks are generally worse for high AGI than low AGI because they break through the defense that AGI provides, and HP of AGI3 ships are, point for point, less than AGI1 ships...

Oh, don't get me wrong, hyper-accurate ordnance is dangerous to everyone. 3-4 hits is going to hurt, no matter what you're flying, and yes, high agility ships tend to be low health, so any hits that go through will hurt.

But while high agility ships have a chance to mitigate damage from a 3-4 hit ordnance shot (be it from evade tokens, autothrusters, lucky natural or modified green dice rolls...), low agility ships basically just have to suck it up. They don't even get help from being at range three.

Take a range three Proton Torpedo, for example. Guidance Chipped for 3 hits, one crit.

A fully loaded TIE Interceptor like Soontir Fel can roll 3(4?) dice, spend an Evade token, change a blank to an evade with autothrusters,.. absolute worst case scenario, he could blank out, take the hit and the crit and go boom. However, there's also a decent chance he could get lucky and avoid everything.

A fully loaded Y-Wing, or B-Wing, facing the same attack at the same range however, is going to take two hits and a crit, minimum. The odds are in favour of it having to soak all four.

Which is all totally cool - we've been wanting an ordnance buff for a long time, we've campaigned for it. It's totally fluffy as well, if you look at the PC games. Proton Torpedoes will vaporise a TIE Fighter or TIE Interceptor, if you get lucky and hit them. More likely though, they'll take evasive action and avoid it completely. B-Wings and Y-Wings might be able to tank an initial top shot, but after that, they're toast.

So, you either tool up a high agility ship and take your chances, or you simply let the X-Wing equivalent of Mark Hunt punch you in the nose and hope you're still standing afterwards.

It's all about Vess in my opinion. I run him at 42pts, with crackshot, ion and hull.

Hull upgrade because my experience of running him before the fix tells me that it can be a big difference for a measly 3 points.

Crackshot to force through the initial ion shot, to open them up for the k-behind and finish.

All I hear is that the x7 is amazing and the TIE xD just isn't good enough.

You heard wrong.

The only downside is that no one except Vessery can modify both shots...

Predator is in the game for the very same reason.