It's going to be an arc-dodger. Being better when you get caught jousting doesn't beat never being shot at all.

What are you basing this on, the action bar having boost and barrel roll? The Starviper has both of those actions, but is more jouster than arc-dodger.

The actions available are only half the equation, action efficiency is the other half. Without the greens to enable PTL or some other mechanic, they won't be utilizing those actions.

Thematically, I think it's more likely that they are close in knife fighters. I could see a lot of short s-loops, k-turns, and talon rolls to enable them to constantly be facing their enemy. I would bet it's as likely that this is the first ship with both and s-loop and a t-roll as that this ship has a green hard turn.

I think you just figured out why no one plays the Starviper.

The preview article says that this is supposed to be an aggressive jouster, but with no shields, and a spoiled pilot that just needs to get close the clear choice is dodge arcs and let the title forgive times you can't. I think the Fang is going to be the new hotness of wave IX.

I'd love it if it had the Starviper dial but with green 1 turns, 2 Speed T-Rolls and a 5-K. That's a lot of maneuvers for one dial though.

I highly doubt that the fang will be stealing any spotlights unless it's costed aggressively

It is the most basic ship of the wave and it will need to be efficient to make that work for it

Given the focus on JM5Ks, the auto thruster + range 1 loving fang seems to be in a good spot but as soon as ffg's promised hardcounter is unveiled then the other more complex ships could outstrip it pretty quickly

Both QuickDraw and the Shadow caster in particular are shaping up to be VERY fascinating. QuickDraw specifically can enable most imperial lists to one round scouts fairly trivially and he's cheap enough with rage + baffle to trade away

Poor ARC is still missing a lot of appeal (gotta see the other two pilots) but Lord knows the last thing an Interceptor wannabe wants to see is r3-a2 and the means to abuse it

I am happy to read this thread and see how many of you have an excellent grasp of the costing required for the generic Fang fighters to be good. They have potential to make the biggest splash from wave 9.

PS1 at 17 points

PS5 at 20 points

This will begin to make amends for the sad sad Syck.

I recently tried out a Saber Squadron interceptor with PTL & auto-thrusters.

At 26 points it is overcosted, but it can be effective. It's not really an option once you compare it to Omega Leader, Juke, Comm Relay @ 26 points.

A PS5 Fang with PTL, auto-thrusters, & title would be 26 points as well. The extra hull & title ability it has over the Saber Squadron will put it in a good spot.

My guess is Ps1 -19 points, fits in around the awing and interceptor prices.

Hoping for all green 3 speed moves, turns, banks straights.

Green 2 straight and banks

Green 4 straight

Might give it more of a speedy feel over the other arc Dodgers.

It's going to be an arc-dodger. Being better when you get caught jousting doesn't beat never being shot at all.

What are you basing this on, the action bar having boost and barrel roll? The Starviper has both of those actions, but is more jouster than arc-dodger.

The actions available are only half the equation, action efficiency is the other half. Without the greens to enable PTL or some other mechanic, they won't be utilizing those actions.

Thematically, I think it's more likely that they are close in knife fighters. I could see a lot of short s-loops, k-turns, and talon rolls to enable them to constantly be facing their enemy. I would bet it's as likely that this is the first ship with both and s-loop and a t-roll as that this ship has a green hard turn.

Based on the artivles comparisons to the awing and interceptor and the fact that the fang fighter is supposed to be super maneuverable. If it doesnt have green turns it runs the risk of being another doa ship for scum.

Giving it green turns would potentially make it both heavier hitting than an A-wing and more durable than an Interceptor while having the same Arc-dodging ability. In addition, the benefits to being in an opponents arc gives it an even greater advantage over both of those ships. I doubt FFG would put a ship out there that would be such a clear upgrade over the two most comparable ships. There will be some drawback to the ship, and I expect it to be the dial.

As for being DOA, FFG generally prefers to be conservative and bump a ships strength later on rather than nerf it.

I really hope this ship delivers the punch in the face it promises.

It's going to be an arc-dodger. Being better when you get caught jousting doesn't beat never being shot at all.

What are you basing this on, the action bar having boost and barrel roll? The Starviper has both of those actions, but is more jouster than arc-dodger.

The actions available are only half the equation, action efficiency is the other half. Without the greens to enable PTL or some other mechanic, they won't be utilizing those actions.

Thematically, I think it's more likely that they are close in knife fighters. I could see a lot of short s-loops, k-turns, and talon rolls to enable them to constantly be facing their enemy. I would bet it's as likely that this is the first ship with both and s-loop and a t-roll as that this ship has a green hard turn.

I think you just figured out why no one plays the Starviper.

The preview article says that this is supposed to be an aggressive jouster, but with no shields, and a spoiled pilot that just needs to get close the clear choice is dodge arcs and let the title forgive times you can't. I think the Fang is going to be the new hotness of wave IX.

No one plays the Starviper because it's abilities do not justify the cost. If the Starviper pilots were all 5 points cheaper, it would see a ton a play even without a green turn.

In close combat does not necessarily correlate to arc-dodging. In close combat is boosted by a good selection of short maneuvers, particularly ones that can turn the ship around. For example, the B-wing is good at in-close combat due to the 2 K-turn. The 2 T-roll will serve a similar function.

Given FFGs heavy emphasis in the article at charging in headfirst and being in opponents arcs, I think there is a lot more evidence that this will be a jouster with a lot of cool upgrades than an arc-dodger.

Edit: Quote from article for reference.

But while the ship's range of actions and maneuver dial, combined with its lack of shields, suggest that it should be a classic arc-dodger in the vein of the A-wing and the TIE interceptor, its pilots, like Fenn Rau , tend to favor brash, head-on charges. Accordingly, among the expansion's six ship cards and two upgrades, you will find no fewer than four cards that reference "Range 1," and three that reward you for flying straight into your opponent's firing arc.

Given FFGs heavy emphasis in the article at charging in headfirst and being in opponents arcs, I think there is a lot more evidence that this will be a jouster with a lot of cool upgrades than an arc-dodger.

Edit: Quote from article for reference.

But while the ship's range of actions and maneuver dial, combined with its lack of shields, suggest that it should be a classic arc-dodger in the vein of the A-wing and the TIE interceptor, its pilots, like Fenn Rau , tend to favor brash, head-on charges. Accordingly, among the expansion's six ship cards and two upgrades, you will find no fewer than four cards that reference "Range 1," and three that reward you for flying straight into your opponent's firing arc.

It also suggests that the maneuver dial itself is one appropriate for an arc-dodger though.

No one plays the Starviper because it's abilities do not justify the cost. If the Starviper pilots were all 5 points cheaper, it would see a ton a play even without a green turn.

The Virago title is the biggest problem with the Starviper. The base ship should have had a system and illicit slot and Virago could have done something cool. That wouldn't have made them the go to Scum ship but would have increased their popularity.

well, virago and a 25 point base cost for no real reason

virago is a horrible design that even Slave 1 did better in wave 2. If the upgrade doesn't do diddly squat by itself it's worth 0 points

well, virago and a 25 point base cost for no real reason

virago is a horrible design that even Slave 1 did better in wave 2. If the upgrade doesn't do diddly squat by itself it's worth 0 points

I don't think that 25 points is horrible for a PS1 ship with 5 health, with 3 health and agility. If it had a built in system and illicit slot it would be fairly comparable to the E-Wing. A two point reduction in the cost of the E-Wing wouldn't shake up the meta but it would bring them close to being worth the cost.

well, virago and a 25 point base cost for no real reason

virago is a horrible design that even Slave 1 did better in wave 2. If the upgrade doesn't do diddly squat by itself it's worth 0 points

I don't think that 25 points is horrible for a PS1 ship with 5 health, with 3 health and agility. If it had a built in system and illicit slot it would be fairly comparable to the E-Wing. A two point reduction in the cost of the E-Wing wouldn't shake up the meta but it would bring them close to being worth the cost.

it's very horrible

not as bad as the knave, of course, but still absolute garbage

the Starviper's PS 1 profile is a conservative 23 points or a more reasonable 22

Given FFGs heavy emphasis in the article at charging in headfirst and being in opponents arcs, I think there is a lot more evidence that this will be a jouster with a lot of cool upgrades than an arc-dodger.

Edit: Quote from article for reference.

But while the ship's range of actions and maneuver dial, combined with its lack of shields, suggest that it should be a classic arc-dodger in the vein of the A-wing and the TIE interceptor, its pilots, like Fenn Rau , tend to favor brash, head-on charges. Accordingly, among the expansion's six ship cards and two upgrades, you will find no fewer than four cards that reference "Range 1," and three that reward you for flying straight into your opponent's firing arc.

It also suggests that the maneuver dial itself is one appropriate for an arc-dodger though.

True. Both the Interceptor and A-wing have green turns. That said, they classify the A-wing as an arc-dodger even though it lacks the barrel roll action, limiting it to one location modification per turn (outside of Tycho w/ expert handling). This implies that FFG does not feel a ship needs to be able to both boost and barrel roll in the same turn in order to be considered an arc-dodger. By extension, this means that green turns, which enable PTL, may not be required to meet FFGs definition of an arc-dodger.

I would actually love to see the fang be the first ship with multiple speeds of green turns (on both sides. Jumpmaster dkesnt count) since its supposed to be super maneuverable

Given FFGs heavy emphasis in the article at charging in headfirst and being in opponents arcs, I think there is a lot more evidence that this will be a jouster with a lot of cool upgrades than an arc-dodger.

Edit: Quote from article for reference.

But while the ship's range of actions and maneuver dial, combined with its lack of shields, suggest that it should be a classic arc-dodger in the vein of the A-wing and the TIE interceptor, its pilots, like Fenn Rau , tend to favor brash, head-on charges. Accordingly, among the expansion's six ship cards and two upgrades, you will find no fewer than four cards that reference "Range 1," and three that reward you for flying straight into your opponent's firing arc.

It also suggests that the maneuver dial itself is one appropriate for an arc-dodger though.

On the other hand, the title gives a bonus action if you're caught in arc and ffg's non-binding assurance that it really is a jouster, you guys!

Again, not being shot at is far better than being shot at. This thing will either be an arc-dodger or DOA.

well, virago and a 25 point base cost for no real reason

virago is a horrible design that even Slave 1 did better in wave 2. If the upgrade doesn't do diddly squat by itself it's worth 0 points

I don't think that 25 points is horrible for a PS1 ship with 5 health, with 3 health and agility. If it had a built in system and illicit slot it would be fairly comparable to the E-Wing. A two point reduction in the cost of the E-Wing wouldn't shake up the meta but it would bring them close to being worth the cost.

it's very horrible

not as bad as the knave, of course, but still absolute garbage

the Starviper's PS 1 profile is a conservative 23 points or a more reasonable 22

With the card as it is you are probably right. If it had an illicit and systems slot included I think it would probably be undercosted

Given FFGs heavy emphasis in the article at charging in headfirst and being in opponents arcs, I think there is a lot more evidence that this will be a jouster with a lot of cool upgrades than an arc-dodger.

Edit: Quote from article for reference.

But while the ship's range of actions and maneuver dial, combined with its lack of shields, suggest that it should be a classic arc-dodger in the vein of the A-wing and the TIE interceptor, its pilots, like Fenn Rau , tend to favor brash, head-on charges. Accordingly, among the expansion's six ship cards and two upgrades, you will find no fewer than four cards that reference "Range 1," and three that reward you for flying straight into your opponent's firing arc.

It also suggests that the maneuver dial itself is one appropriate for an arc-dodger though.

So FFG says it has the actions and dial of an arc-dodger, spoils a pilot who would be great in an arc dodgers, and a state line that begs you don't get hit.

On the other hand, the title gives a bonus action if you're caught in arc and ffg's non-binding assurance that it really is a jouster, you guys!

Again, not being shot at is far better than being shot at. This thing will either be an arc-dodger or DOA.

There's no disagreement about whether avoiding arcs, is better than being shot at. The discussion is about what FFG is going in, not what would make a more powerful ship.

Either way, I don't expect the Fang to be DOA. Ships that are DOA are due to bad pricing. The basic TIE Fighter is junk if you look at the stats, but the price of 12 pts makes it valuable. The fact that the most expensive of the Fangs is 28 pts, means that the generics are likely priced in the low 20s (maybe high teens). IMO, even if it's not an arc-dodger, it is a 3 red, 3 green, 4-hit ship and that pricing is OK. I've seen generic TIE Interceptors used to great effect (w/o PTL) and the Fang has an extra health and a title that grants additional action economy. Also, Fenn Rau will be rolling 4 red and 4 green dice at range one. He's comparable to a Phantom at range one (less action economy, but no vulnerability to higher PS).

It may not be meta-setting, but it won't be DOA.

(snip)

Also, Fenn Rau will be rolling 4 red and 4 green dice at range one. He's comparable to a Phantom at range one (less action economy, but no vulnerability to higher PS).

It may not be meta-setting, but it won't be DOA.

Fenn will be rolling 5 red and 4 green at range one.

Base 3 red + 1 for range 1 + 1 for ability

Given FFGs heavy emphasis in the article at charging in headfirst and being in opponents arcs, I think there is a lot more evidence that this will be a jouster with a lot of cool upgrades than an arc-dodger.

Edit: Quote from article for reference.

But while the ship's range of actions and maneuver dial, combined with its lack of shields, suggest that it should be a classic arc-dodger in the vein of the A-wing and the TIE interceptor, its pilots, like Fenn Rau , tend to favor brash, head-on charges. Accordingly, among the expansion's six ship cards and two upgrades, you will find no fewer than four cards that reference "Range 1," and three that reward you for flying straight into your opponent's firing arc.

It also suggests that the maneuver dial itself is one appropriate for an arc-dodger though.

So FFG says it has the actions and dial of an arc-dodger, spoils a pilot who would be great in an arc dodgers, and a state line that begs you don't get hit.

On the other hand, the title gives a bonus action if you're caught in arc and ffg's non-binding assurance that it really is a jouster, you guys!

Again, not being shot at is far better than being shot at. This thing will either be an arc-dodger or DOA.

There's no disagreement about whether avoiding arcs, is better than being shot at. The discussion is about what FFG is going in, not what would make a more powerful ship.

Either way, I don't expect the Fang to be DOA. Ships that are DOA are due to bad pricing. The basic TIE Fighter is junk if you look at the stats, but the price of 12 pts makes it valuable. The fact that the most expensive of the Fangs is 28 pts, means that the generics are likely priced in the low 20s (maybe high teens). IMO, even if it's not an arc-dodger, it is a 3 red, 3 green, 4-hit ship and that pricing is OK. I've seen generic TIE Interceptors used to great effect (w/o PTL) and the Fang has an extra health and a title that grants additional action economy. Also, Fenn Rau will be rolling 4 red and 4 green dice at range one. He's comparable to a Phantom at range one (less action economy, but no vulnerability to higher PS).

It may not be meta-setting, but it won't be DOA.

The Fang seems like it's an arc dodger with a contingency plan. The popularity of Soontir Fel and The Inquisitor with PTL isn't just because they are good at staying out of arc. When they can't get out of arc, they can token up and usually brush off attacks as long as they aren't getting attacked by too many ships.

(snip)

Also, Fenn Rau will be rolling 4 red and 4 green dice at range one. He's comparable to a Phantom at range one (less action economy, but no vulnerability to higher PS).

It may not be meta-setting, but it won't be DOA.

Fenn will be rolling 5 red and 4 green at range one.

Base 3 red + 1 for range 1 + 1 for ability

Good catch! Hooray for math!

the fang is literally a mix of the Awing and Interceptor.

Damage output of an Interceptor, total hp of an Awing, dodgyness of an Interceptor. Only drawback we know so far is it has no shields and no "evade" action, though it has a card that somewhat counters that part.

I am fully expecting the standard interceptor PTL + Autos build. Getting tired of seeing every pilot get PTL glued to them.

I've said it elsewhere but they're going to be trying to make the Fearless(ness?) EPT competitive with PTL for the purpose of tempting players to fly Protectorates like jousters rather than arc-dodgers. My guess is that the Fang will fit either role appropriately enough, but its access to fly as designed (jousting) is entirely dependent on the strength and cost of cards we haven't seen yet.

Given FFGs heavy emphasis in the article at charging in headfirst and being in opponents arcs, I think there is a lot more evidence that this will be a jouster with a lot of cool upgrades than an arc-dodger.

Edit: Quote from article for reference.

But while the ship's range of actions and maneuver dial, combined with its lack of shields, suggest that it should be a classic arc-dodger in the vein of the A-wing and the TIE interceptor, its pilots, like Fenn Rau , tend to favor brash, head-on charges. Accordingly, among the expansion's six ship cards and two upgrades, you will find no fewer than four cards that reference "Range 1," and three that reward you for flying straight into your opponent's firing arc.

It also suggests that the maneuver dial itself is one appropriate for an arc-dodger though.

So FFG says it has the actions and dial of an arc-dodger, spoils a pilot who would be great in an arc dodgers, and a state line that begs you don't get hit.

On the other hand, the title gives a bonus action if you're caught in arc and ffg's non-binding assurance that it really is a jouster, you guys!

Again, not being shot at is far better than being shot at. This thing will either be an arc-dodger or DOA.

There's no disagreement about whether avoiding arcs, is better than being shot at. The discussion is about what FFG is going in, not what would make a more powerful ship.

Either way, I don't expect the Fang to be DOA. Ships that are DOA are due to bad pricing. The basic TIE Fighter is junk if you look at the stats, but the price of 12 pts makes it valuable. The fact that the most expensive of the Fangs is 28 pts, means that the generics are likely priced in the low 20s (maybe high teens). IMO, even if it's not an arc-dodger, it is a 3 red, 3 green, 4-hit ship and that pricing is OK. I've seen generic TIE Interceptors used to great effect (w/o PTL) and the Fang has an extra health and a title that grants additional action economy. Also, Fenn Rau will be rolling 4 red and 4 green dice at range one. He's comparable to a Phantom at range one (less action economy, but no vulnerability to higher PS).

It may not be meta-setting, but it won't be DOA.

Given FFGs heavy emphasis in the article at charging in headfirst and being in opponents arcs, I think there is a lot more evidence that this will be a jouster with a lot of cool upgrades than an arc-dodger.

Edit: Quote from article for reference.

But while the ship's range of actions and maneuver dial, combined with its lack of shields, suggest that it should be a classic arc-dodger in the vein of the A-wing and the TIE interceptor, its pilots, like Fenn Rau , tend to favor brash, head-on charges. Accordingly, among the expansion's six ship cards and two upgrades, you will find no fewer than four cards that reference "Range 1," and three that reward you for flying straight into your opponent's firing arc.

It also suggests that the maneuver dial itself is one appropriate for an arc-dodger though.

So FFG says it has the actions and dial of an arc-dodger, spoils a pilot who would be great in an arc dodgers, and a state line that begs you don't get hit.

On the other hand, the title gives a bonus action if you're caught in arc and ffg's non-binding assurance that it really is a jouster, you guys!

Again, not being shot at is far better than being shot at. This thing will either be an arc-dodger or DOA.

There's no disagreement about whether avoiding arcs, is better than being shot at. The discussion is about what FFG is going in, not what would make a more powerful ship.

Either way, I don't expect the Fang to be DOA. Ships that are DOA are due to bad pricing. The basic TIE Fighter is junk if you look at the stats, but the price of 12 pts makes it valuable. The fact that the most expensive of the Fangs is 28 pts, means that the generics are likely priced in the low 20s (maybe high teens). IMO, even if it's not an arc-dodger, it is a 3 red, 3 green, 4-hit ship and that pricing is OK. I've seen generic TIE Interceptors used to great effect (w/o PTL) and the Fang has an extra health and a title that grants additional action economy. Also, Fenn Rau will be rolling 4 red and 4 green dice at range one. He's comparable to a Phantom at range one (less action economy, but no vulnerability to higher PS).

It may not be meta-setting, but it won't be DOA.

Glad you agree it's better to arc-dodge instead of joust. Now why are you jousting when you can arc-dodge?

Why are you assuming it can arc-dodge effectively? My whole point is that we may not have a choice. People saw a similar action bar on the Starviper and proclaimed that it would be the greatest arc-dodger ever until they saw the dial. We need to wait to see the dial on the Fang before we can annoint it as the next great arc-dodging ship. FFG clearly wants to make this ship a jouster, which means they may have held off allowing it to be flown effectively as purely an arc-dodger.

Because the action bar, and the article said so. Why are you assuming it can't when all evidence is to the contrary?