It's bad like really bad. I get the point with Target lock on further target but limit to ships with torpedo and missile, why? It rather have Guidence Chip, then scanner. I guess the limit is so do to Jumpmaster. Yeah you know: Target Lock round 1, round 2 or 3 focus to deadeye and then focus.
T-65 would be happy to have Scanner. They would plan their target. Then focus when in fire arc and at right range.
Low ps bombers and kwings don't mind long range. Allows a target lock, and at range three get a focus and launch that homing missile on a higher ps target with full modifications.
The target lock mechanic has always been weak. Pushing it out to range 3 and beyond just wouldn't work. The Arc Dodgers of Ace wing will see a TL token outside of attack range and will just never land inside your firing arc while the wingmate will simply slip in at range 2 (where you cant make a TL action against) and murder your LRS bomber.
To be honest it is only good in epic when going against capital ships that cant target and fire at you at range 4-5. Get the TL then as soon as you are in range let lose the missiles and torpedoes. Get outside of range 2 (and Quad Laser range) and repeat till huge ship is gone.
Right. just what was needed in epic. A better way to blow up the capital ships.
It might have been interesting on certain ships but the requirements for ordinance really kill it. For example, I might well take it on basic TIE advanced, on Z-95s, on ships with FCS. But on true ordinance ships even ignoring the downsides, it has to compete with Guidance Chips and that's a tough battle. I might consider it on a Punisher with FCS perhaps but otherwise I see little utility.
Right. just what was needed in epic. A better way to blow up the capital ships.
You would still probably be better off with a swarm of TIE Interceptors for hunting capital ships. This is why I am interested in seeing what the Epic tournament is like. The only downside is there is no series of tournaments for epic where we can see what really works and what parings provide what results. The best guess we an make is to speculate. Sort of like swarm fighters beat Huge Gunships. Huge Gunships beat support transports and fighters, support transports and fighters beat swarm fighters.
I think I'll be trying LRS on K-Wings with single torps/missiles and TLTs. Hit them with that alpha strike and then peck away at any survivors. Might not work against everything, but ought to be fun to try. Oh yeah.
Regen Miranda likes it - a way to pick up a free die modification on the rounds when nothing is in range post-SLAM.
Generic bombers like it - they were never going to get a target lock in the first engagement otherwise (because they move into range 4-5, then the enemy ship moves into range 3, and the bomber feels silly while it's shot at with no return fire), but it definitely wants to be used against a jouster, not an arc-dodger - and the classic jousters are outgunned in general at the moment, so they're lacking their ideal targets. If Jumpmasters hadn't done their shtick even better and with a PS bid to boot, we might've seen generic bomber swarms as a Jumpmaster counter - simultaneous fire but with an extra shot on the board would've been an interesting trade if you could pull it off, y'know? As-is, I'm not sure how much we'll see it.
Punishers hate it. Even with the recent FCS nerf, the close-range restriction on target locks cripples their ability to reaquire die mods, so best run guidance chips instead.
The missile-and-torpedo limitation keeps B-wings and Y-wings from joining the ordinance play, too. C'est la vie.
Firesprays love it - if you didn't have anything better to do with your mods and titles, grab Slave 1, then be able to double-modify your first round of shooting with very little penalty (because after the initial range 3 exchange, you're probably too busy grabbing Focus and Evades to bother TLing enemies anyway).
In summary: It's a good bomber fix, but one that falls short because Jumpmasters happened. Instead, it's a subtle buff to turret K-wings and Firesprays by accident. No-one else much cares.
But Bombers might be able to do something with it regardless; we'll just have to see.
For K-wings, non-EU Firesprays, and TIE Shuttles, its a cheap dice mod that doesn't have a downside if you're not using the modification slot anyway. Other than that, I don't see any real benefit taking LRS over chips for an ordinance boat.
JONUS BROTHERS
99 points
Discuss:
PILOTS
Black Eight Squadron Pilot (35)
x 2
TIE Punisher (23), Accuracy Corrector (3), Extra Munitions (2), Proton Torpedoes (4), Proximity Mines (3), Long Range Scanners (0)
Captain Jonus (29)
TIE Bomber (22), Extra Munitions (2), Proton Torpedoes (4), Crack Shot (1), Long Range Scanners (0)
Edit- might replace LRS on Jonus w/ Chips. Just a thought.
Edited by JasonColeFor K-wings, non-EU Firesprays, and TIE Shuttles, its a cheap dice mod that doesn't have a downside if you're not using the modification slot anyway. Other than that, I don't see any real benefit taking LRS over chips for an ordinance boat.
No TIE shuttles, alas.
They can't carry crew
and
have the slots to fly LRS. I admit this is a terrible pity - I've seen multiple times I'd have loved nothing better.
I like LRS on Tomax with Crackshot (no ordnance). It allows me to have focus/TL for the first round of combat. Then, zoom out of range, re-acquire target lock and repeat. Tomax is such a high priority target that dies immediately if kept in the fight, so LRS fits nicely if flown opportunistically.
In all fairness, it's much better to spend one extra point and upgrade to Omega Leader, but that's for another thread.
Edited by Criwi Romed
For K-wings, non-EU Firesprays, and TIE Shuttles, its a cheap dice mod that doesn't have a downside if you're not using the modification slot anyway. Other than that, I don't see any real benefit taking LRS over chips for an ordinance boat.
No TIE shuttles, alas.
They can't carry crew and have the slots to fly LRS. I admit this is a terrible pity - I've seen multiple times I'd have loved nothing better.
Ack, my brain blanked. ****.
But on true ordinance ships even ignoring the downsides, it has to compete with Guidance Chips and that's a tough battle.
It doesn't compare so badly if you are using Homing Missiles. You can fire it with a reroll and a Focus token which gives you very good odds of getting 4 hits and ignoring Evade tokens. It is very good at countering the /x7 Defenders in the same box.
If you have something like Deadeye and/or protorps then Chips are better. The LRS is a fairly specific upgrade but for cheap bombers with no EPT, it can be good.
People have talked about Aces simply staying out of the Bomber's range or arc. If you just have 1 then that is not too hard but if you run a pair of Bombers then you can create a zone that even Soontir will struggle to dodge if he actually wants to take part in the battle. And if his wingman wanders into Range 3 of a bomber while trying to take one out, the other can simply switch a TL to the wingman and shoot him. Even without a Focus, that will normally be 3 hits with a homing missile.
LRS Bombers will not suddenly become Soontir-slayers but they will certainly make life harder for your opponent to use him effectively and that is an advantage in itself. Plus they can hit hard against a variety of targets. I am thinking that a Gamma Bomber with LRS and homing missiles paired with a Gamma Vet with Deadeye, Chips and Torpedoes. That leaves 45-ish points which is just right for a Deci-Vader, Buzzsaw Whisper, 3 Black/Crack Ties or anything else you can come up with.
It doesn't compare so badly if you are using Homing Missiles. You can fire it with a reroll and a Focus token which gives you very good odds of getting 4 hits and ignoring Evade tokens. It is very good at countering the /x7 Defenders in the same box
This. It's cheap and pairs up well with homing missiles and crack shot - you can easily pack in two bombers, and avoiding both takes some serious work. I agree that Guidance Chips are normally better, but this way you get around the problem with low PS bombers not being able to get a target lock on a higher PS target.
The Arc Dodgers of Ace wing will see a TL token outside of attack range and will just never land inside your firing arc while the wingmate will simply slip in at range 2 (where you cant make a TL action against) and murder your LRS bomber.
But here's the thing - the bomber wouldn't have been able to get a target lock without LRS either, because that ace moves after the bomber, and would have 'zipped' from range 4+ to range 2 after the bomber moved. At least this way, the target locks may have telegraphed a target, but at least persuaded the locked ace to go "not a ****ing chance!!!" and decide to avoid the arc of fire. With guidance chips, you'd never have gotten the target lock off, so wouldn't have got a shot in the first place (barring deadeye-type shenanigans).
I like the idea of sprinkeling a Crackshot/Homing Veteran with LRS into my Deadeye/Homing Veteran list. The telegraphing of target helps you herd aces into the arcs of the other two Bombers in theory.
Don't forget that the bomber has a good dial for slow rolling to make sure they get range 2-3. Deadeye and LRS are a great pair together because they cover each others backs and homing missile is even better with those two over chips (as is other ords that doesn't spend the focus/tl), TL out the gate on a target and on the turn you will be in rage you focus. If your bombers shoot later on and you are focus firing something down you have the bomber's ords as a final blow just in case or if the ship dies before the bomber gets to shoot at it the bomber can still shoot at a target with deadeye, deadeye with LRS can also fire with focus, k-turn, fire ords again for big 1-2 punch(works great with high ps over low ps). Deadeye with LRS also helps that pesky reacquire TL at range 1-2 if you are having a tough time disengageing and if you can disengage you can TL + focus all over again. I thought chips all the way until i started to play test with LRS, having your action open when you already have your TL is huge, oh they moved out of arc some? Barrel roll and fire away! Focus up for more punch or even for defensive purposes. LRS doesn't replace chips and chips doesn't make LRS useless, they both of their sweet spots of what they are good with. Without going into specifics a basic guideline is LRS for low PS so they can get their TL off asap, chips for high PS since they have better control getting TL right before combat.
Here's my Rebel anti-ace take on an LRS squad.
http://x-wing.fabpsb.net/permalink.php?sq=r55a15m30p23r51g4o4p24r51g4o4p24
I figure with a pair of fully modified Homing Missile shots and a PS5 T-70 I should have a decent chance of making many a PalpAces and Defender squadrons very, very unhappy.
Gawd, I wish I wasn't at the beach so I could try it out. Anyone in Rehoboth?
It seems to me that the people who have always loved bombers seem to like Long Range Sensors (LRS). They fit well on low Pilot Skill (PS) ships who can seldom get Target Locks anyway. But there is another group that think this modification doesn't go far enough or is terrible; often because it doesn't help enough other ships even though most agree it was a fix for bombers. Odd that.
These three fixes have gone along way to make bombers fun taking:
Heychadwick has already pointed out the these builds should not be flown in standard 2x or 4x formation. But spreading them out and over lapping long range fields of fire is the biggest winner. Your Ace will be in someone's arc and the other can K-Turn out passed Range 3 and start the process over. Of course a build of only LRS equipped ships is probably a loosing proposition.
Once must find balance in the force... or was it balanced forces? I'm not sure I keep getting those confused.
It's bad like really bad.
It is not bad, it is a niche upgrade which is perfect for the task -which is getting those initial Target Locks.
That the OP would rather use Guidance Chips than LRS, doesn't make LRS bad...
I wish the Missile and Torpedo equipped was dropped from the card. Then everyone could take it. Would help X-wings, and other ships, now it's really only a bomber upgrade.
They could have said everyone can take it, but if you have both missile and torp, all missiles and torps equipped were 2 pts less to a minimum of 1. It would be used a lot more by everyone .
Edited by eagletsi111I really don't see LRS as a put it on your whole squad thing. It seems to work well for mixing it up. Use the Awax bomber and LRS one of your other bombers while Chiping a third bomber. Lets you make the most out of your single extra target lock from the Awax, while still making sure everyone has TL and focus for the shot. The other thing you can do is LRS on one of your guys to try and force a specific ship to stay back. Often times a good play will keep a first turn TLed ship back to keep you from shooting him. If he is not engaging in the game for fear of being waxed in one turn then you still have an advantage. LRS are not an all or nothing concept for me but a very viable part of my arsenal.
I wish the Missile and Torpedo equipped was dropped from the card. Then everyone could take it. Would help X-wings, and other ships, now it's really only a bomber upgrade.
They could have said everyone can take it, but if you have both missile and torp, all missiles and torps equipped were 2 pts less to a minimum of 1. It would be used a lot more by everyone .
There is no equip, you only need the icons in your upgrade bar. Still, most of the time you'll want Homing + EM anyways, so even if you had to actually fill the slots, LRS would still be good.
it does somewhat limit your ordnance use, both because range1 TL stuff are now impossible (unless you also use Deadeye for some reason) and you have no Chips for the things that spend the TL.
One of my friends always wondered why Homing missiles were 5pts and proton torps were 4. Same attack dice, same ranges, homers deny evade token (but not raw dice or focus) and protons make a focus a crit. In raw form, protons would be better in every way unless you didnt have a torp slot to begin with. He never noticed you dont spend the TL on homers though, which VASTLY improves hitting odds. Homers dont technically need chips, but ptorps do.
How many ships that can take this already have titles, tie bombers, firesprays, I can't think of anything else. Punishers and Kwings still have title hope to add a second mod like interceptors. Just throwing that out there, a ship with lrs AND chips with multiple ordnance would be beast.