The progression from stage 1a to 2a happens at the end of the round. Does this then trigger the second forced effect on stage 2b on that same round ? (Forced - add one progress to the quest for each enemy in the staging area)?

I feel like this has already been answered somewhere recently, but I can't find the answer now. But there's an official ruling by Caleb on a different question that's relevant here. That ruling was quoted in this thread , and it reads:

"Forced effects do not trigger unless they are in play at the time that they would trigger. This is true for Response effects as well.

Cheers,

Caleb" ( source )

So let's look at Helm's Deep. Stage 1B reads, in relevant part: " Forced : At the end of the round, advance to stage 2A". Stage 2B reads, in relevant part: " Forced : At the end of the round place 1 progress here for each enemy in the staging area (bypassing the active location)."

Now, you're at the end of the round. Stage 1B is in play, and it will trigger. At this time, the end of the round, stage 2B is NOT YET in play. It comes into play because of triggering Stage 1B's Forced effect (which triggers at the end of the round) -- but that means that it was not in play when it would trigger.

Therefore, this quest works precisely the way you would think. If you choose to go through stage 1, you get one free round of setup (and a free ally) at the cost of taking a burden card. But then you do indeed get that free round, and you will only trigger stage 2B's Forced effect at the end of round 2.

Timing for "end of round" and "end of phase" has always seemed rather awkward to me. I think it would be easier if they were all switched to "start of round" and "start of next phase".

Thanks rmunn. And apologies for the multiple posts - ffgs servers were giving an error last night, but it obviously was posting.

When in doubt, always remember the main rule for LOTR LCG : ''If the rule screws up the player, then it must apply.''

When in doubt, always remember the main rule for LOTR LCG : ''If the rule screws up the player, then it must apply.''

Except that in this case, it doesn't apply -- because the effect that would most have screwed the player would have been "After stage 1B, stage 2B's Forced effect immediately applies and tokens go on the quest right away." Remember that in this scenario, you want progress to NOT be placed on the quest; and the ruling by Caleb that applies here is the one that is actually helpful to the player, because it delays progress going on the quest by one turn.