bomber got played a lot when they first came out (6hull was co cool) then died off because ordinance was crap and expensive..... now days they are lots better thanks extra munition and Guidance Chips and a larger choice of bombs/missiles/torpedos etc

Don't discount Long Range Scanners.

there's no real "fix" in vets for bombers, just more toys especially ept Gamma Vets (crackshot? deadeye? pretty big force multipliers on that ship) and the awesome Deathfire

Tie shuttle is about the only thing in the box that actually makes them worse than before, but you don't have to use it

I think Long Range Scanners is a fix for low PS Tie Bombers. Oh, the Scimitar Pilot isn't relevant in tournament meta with the U-boats around, but that doesn't mean things won't shift later. Just because it doesn't fit in right this moment doesn't mean it isn't some sort of fix. Then again.....I still think it can work right now, but people seem unwilling to try.

Also, I get that your opinion is that the Tie Shuttle is a bad thing, but I see it as just something different. I don't agree that it makes the Tie Bomber worse. It's a way to make pilots like Jonus useful, since he can't get to use his own ability.

Well, I know it's anecdotal, but I made Top 8, 5th after swiss, with 2 Scimitar equiped with Long Range Scanner, and they played their part.

I think that Bombers are currently underrated. For only 16pts you have a lot going on. 6 hull behind 2 agility can take a while to go through, they certainly can't be one shotted. 2 attack is not a lot but can still hurt big ship with low agility or a target that your big hitter stripped the tokens. PS3-4 now being the norm, they are efficient blocker with their average dial and barrel roll. And if they joust, the k-turn 5 can help you clear the enemy line. They also benefit from being one of the few imperial unit with a straight 1.

From my point of view, they are definetly worth their 16pts.

6 scimitars with LRS and 2 with seismics 100pts.

Beefy swarm! lol...yeah bad idea

Deathfire is the Tarn Mission of the box, given time a build will surface that works nicely with him.

I'm liking Deathfire. I've been running him with EM and Prox Mines. Doing a Barrel Roll and then dropping the mine is awesome. I wish he there was a title that let him convert missile slots to bomb slots.

I also wish there was a another "Death" ship so I can run him and Deathrain in a total Death list.

Just run Death Vader with them, when people tell you that you're mispronouncing his name, tell them you have no idea what they're talking about

• Gamma Squadron Veteran, Crack Shot, Homing Missiles, Long Range Scanners x 2
• Gamma Squadron Veteran, Deadeye, Plasma Torpedoes, Extra Munitions, Guidance Chips x 2

I like this list. Too bad there aren't enough for Extra Munitions on the first 2. One thing you could drop one of the Crack Shot Vets to just a regular Gamma and get Extra Munitions on the one Crack Shot Vet. This guy can hold Soontir Fel off for a bit as just him is enough to break through Fel's defenses. The one without Crack Shot doesn't have to target the same one as the one with CS, either.

• Gamma Squadron Veteran, Crack Shot, Homing Missiles, Long Range Scanners x 2
• Gamma Squadron Veteran, Deadeye, Plasma Torpedoes, Extra Munitions, Guidance Chips x 2

I like this list. Too bad there aren't enough for Extra Munitions on the first 2. One thing you could drop one of the Crack Shot Vets to just a regular Gamma and get Extra Munitions on the one Crack Shot Vet. This guy can hold Soontir Fel off for a bit as just him is enough to break through Fel's defenses. The one without Crack Shot doesn't have to target the same one as the one with CS, either.

The unmodified-but-for-guidance-chips Plasma torpedoes kind of bug me. It's a, what, 70% chance of 3 hits? That's focus-and-Predator territory; it's not bad per se but nor is it going to set the world on fire. It's also moderately bothersome that you shoot them after the Homing Missiles as cleanup.

Then again, I'm not sure that swapping them round helps either, sooo... if it works, it works, I guess?

Than a crackshot tie, you mean?

I'd take the guaranteed loss of attack dice from a Tie that died before it shot over killing Howlrunner after she got her shot off any day

Because what inevitably happens is your opponent rolls perfect hits + focus :/

You could always sub out one homing missile for an assault missile, of course.

But yeah, thinking about it, you'll probably do more by potting a pair of TIE fighters before they fire.

The unmodified-but-for-guidance-chips Plasma torpedoes kind of bug me. It's a, what, 70% chance of 3 hits? That's focus-and-Predator territory; it's not bad per se but nor is it going to set the world on fire. It's also moderately bothersome that you shoot them after the Homing Missiles as cleanup.

Against an elusive target, definitely not; but it's still pretty good firepower for a 25 point ship. Where it becomes important is against targets who are less elusive - because if you hit, the 'plasma burn' means you'll take another shield off. So the plasma torpedoes are much better suited for engaging Lamba Shuttles, Decimators, hell, even T-70 X-wings, Y-wings and B-wings. It's still a secondary weapon so no extra green die at range 3, and even three hits makes it undodge-able by an agility 2 or less target.

If I was targeting Jumpmasters, I'd fire one plasma torpedo first, then the homing missiles, and save the last torpedo to finish off (because I can switch targets with it most easily if I need to).

Too bad there aren't enough for Extra Munitions on the first 2.

True. But - at least in my brain - since Crack Shot is one use (aside from Tomax Bren), and Long Range Scanners means reacquiring a target lock once spent is really hard, you're committing to a lethal single shot instead of two that might not do anything.

It's depressing to say, but just getting 3-4 hits isn't necessarily good enough against very elusive aces; I'd rather have two missiles that between them should kill one guy dead, rather than four that might hit, might miss, and will struggle to fire again.

One other thought at the 25 point level for four bombers. Effective? Probably not. Something I've never seen? Definitely. With Long Range Scanners letting you get a target lock in early and hold on to it, might it be possible to field one of the most ridiculous squads I've seen in a long time:

• Gamma Squadron Pilot, Advanced Proton Torpedoes, Extra Munitions, Long Range Scanners x 3
• Gamma Squadron Pilot, TIE Shuttle, Fleet Officer, Twin Ion Engines Mk. II

Set up locks on turn 1 and close to close range - the Fleet Officer can provide focus to anyone wanting to pull a red manoeuvre or to use their action to barrel roll.

At the very least, a Gamma Squadron Pilot (or Gamma Veteran) with Advanced Protons and Long Range Scanners fits in the '25 point limit' of four ships, allowing you to slot in one guy as an "are you really sure you want to boost to range 1?" deterrent.

A Gamma Veteran with Proton Rockets, Extra Munitions, Crack Shot and Guidance Chips might do the same function. Proton Rockets are much less powerful, but are a **** sight less fiddly to use....

i ran vader + 2 gammas with Swarm Tactics last night so they all fire at PS9.

Both bombers had homers, seismics, extra muns, and long range scanners.

The alpha strike was utterly devastating. Targetlock turn 1, focus turn 2-3 and fire homing missiles. Homing missiles dont burn the targetlock to fire, so i had both TL and Focus on a 4die attack that denied evade tokens. In the 3 games i played the first thing i locked onto blew up immediately, or vader finished it off next round because it had enough hp to tank it.

The problem was firing the 2nd homing missiles. That **** range 1-2 no TL zone is crippling. I even went 4FWD with them then 5K'd and scraped the edge of the board and i was still JUUUUST in range2 of everything because it was painfully obvious what i had to do to get another TL so everyone just followed them, even ignoring Vader to do so.

I won 2 games, but barely. Third game vader died to early bad green dice and the bombers just couldnt do anything after that.

I knew when i saw that card it was going to be really **** bad. Moving as fast as bombers possibly can, which afaik is the fastest ship that CAN take long range scanners, i still couldnt get away because all you gotta do is tail them. range2 bubble is insanely hard to get away from.

On a side note, i went against a trip defender list with two /ds and fletchette cannons. For the record, F THAT STRESS lol. Only won that one because he clipped a rock and my 2nd bomber got away as a result, and vader 5-hit prockets ftw on top of him rolling full blanks on green. I should have lost that lol.

edit: wow it censored 5-hit if you dont put the - in there.

Just an idea, but maybe Ion bombs can give you the room to get away.

going to try running the double bomber with LRS again, only this time im running Ruthless xD Vessery and Deadeye on both my gammas.

Deadeye lets me fire at range 2 even if i didnt get the targetlot, but i still get this ridiculously strong alpha-strike with the LRS. Vessery wont get his ability every time unless i dont spend a TL but he will even further concrete the alpha strike since he goes first.

That's what I'm doing as well. I'm going with Homing Missiles on the Bombers to get fully modified dice against which ever ace I choose to delete. I can't say I'm using Vessery. He and I don't get along. But I figure the third ship really doesn't matter as much as the two Gamma Vets.

im running him because i know first hand the xd/ion combo on him is **** mean and Vader isnt that important in this list, since i mainly brought him since hes the best PS9 or even PS8 we got for the job of being a Swarm Tactics host. Soontir/Jax would have issues staying close to the bombers since unlike vader they cant take ANY damage or theyre screwed, and their EPTs are kinda locked down anyway. Only other ships i could think of would just be inhibiting the pilot (i.e. the interceptors) or not as performing as Vader (like Juno/Brath/Inquis/any TIE F/Fo pilots)

Bombers are still really squishy.

Yarp. And it still hurts to lose them after loading them up with munition points.

IMO the "grand meta" hasn't played with bombers enough for them to shine yet so currently they are nitch list out there that use them.

I really agree with this statement. I don't think people have played with Tie Bombers enough. When I brought them up before Imp Vets, people always countered that U-boats were more efficient and would be superior. Not that I agree, but that was the general attitude. Now that U-boats are changed, we could see people trying them out more. I really don't think a lot of people have really tried Tie Bombers much.

Homing Missiles are fantastic for Imp Aces and /X7 title Defenders. It's great for anything without Evade, as well, due to getting the re-roll. Both LRS and Guidance Chips are good on them. People seem to dismiss LRS without really trying them, but I think a mix of both is probably appropriate.

A Gamma Vet w/ Crackshot, LRS, and Extra Munitions costs 27 pts, but has a 98% of doing at least one damage to a tokened up Stealth Soontir Fel. If you are able to use LRS on Soontir and force him out of the fight for even a turn or two due to avoiding firing arc, then he makes up his points as the rest of the list can beat up on the rest of his. In an alpha strike list, sometimes that's all it takes.

Tie Bombers do attract crits a lot, which is why I think Moff Jerrod would be a good addition to any Tie Shuttle....if you have the points for it.

Even before the nerf, 3 gamma squad bombers and OL crush trip uboats. I was running nothing but that from mid march to late may and they worked really well.

Mostly garbage. FFG abandoned Rhymer and Vader shuttle is cool though I guess.

• Gamma Squadron Veteran, Crack Shot, Homing Missiles, Long Range Scanners x 2
• Gamma Squadron Veteran, Deadeye, Plasma Torpedoes, Extra Munitions, Guidance Chips x 2

I like this list. Too bad there aren't enough for Extra Munitions on the first 2. One thing you could drop one of the Crack Shot Vets to just a regular Gamma and get Extra Munitions on the one Crack Shot Vet. This guy can hold Soontir Fel off for a bit as just him is enough to break through Fel's defenses. The one without Crack Shot doesn't have to target the same one as the one with CS, either.

I'm wondering if Jonus can give the Plasmas enough extra punch to be worth loosing a Bomber with a Homing Missile. The Bomber with the Homing Missile may not need to spend his target lock if he gets Jonus rerolls, which would allow him to keep the target lock to fire again the next round, even after pulling a 5 K-Turn. I had a point left so I went with Adaptability to get Jonus at the same PS as the rest of the squad and to give him Intel Agent to help setup blocks against higher PS ships.

I think that DTF may actually not be a horrible idea on Jonus as it may keep you ordnance carriers alive a bit longer.