So it seems the X7 title is popular. No love for the TIE/D?

It's a defense over offense thing. X7's are tanky, while TIE/D's hit like a meteor. In good hands, tie/D's can be more deadly then x7's.

This is truth. The neat thing about TIE/Ds is that you pack multi-ship firepower and some control into a single, fast small base that pays relatively little for PS. TIE/Ds are going to die faster, and they will be weak to things that x7s are not, but they will kill things a lot faster (which saves them some damage) and they will control things (which also saves some damage). They have more upside, but also more downside. If you don't want games going to time, take TIE/Ds.

I'm just happy that after all this time we finally have 'how to counter defenders' threads. I remember clearly the days of defenders being considered trash. This warms my cold defender filled heart.

Ya beat me to the punch on that one, is a strange new area we are heading into where threads about Defender counters exist.

So it seems the X7 title is popular. No love for the TIE/D?

It has its place but its expensive and in a 100point game the efficiency of a x7 juke is hard to get around. IMHO the D's come into their own in Epic play where they can really dish out damage

I'm not seeing Juke as being especially helpful unless you are running Vessery or Brath. Any lower in the PS, and you will already have spent that evade, right? Juke works well on Omega Leader because he's an 8.

And because of Comm Relay

So it seems the X7 title is popular. No love for the TIE/D?

It's a defense over offense thing. X7's are tanky, while TIE/D's hit like a meteor. In good hands, tie/D's can be more deadly then x7's.

This is truth. The neat thing about TIE/Ds is that you pack multi-ship firepower and some control into a single, fast small base that pays relatively little for PS. TIE/Ds are going to die faster, and they will be weak to things that x7s are not, but they will kill things a lot faster (which saves them some damage) and they will control things (which also saves some damage). They have more upside, but also more downside. If you don't want games going to time, take TIE/Ds.

Surely there is a way to mix both? Perhaps you can use the /X7 to engage and have the /D try to hang back and blast in?

Tie D/Tractor beam can get out of control really fast. And unlike ions or stress, stacked tractor tokens can kill.

I like how a thread on Defender counters has devolved into "How can I build Defenders even better?"

It's almost like there is no hope.

I like how a thread on Defender counters has devolved into "How can I build Defenders even better?"

It's almost like there is no hope.

ssh

give the poor dears their time in the limelight

after all this time, they deserve it

Hard counter for Defenders in Wave 10?

The problem with TIE/D is that you typically only get to modify one of the shots, and if you're only going to have one good, modified shot you might as well take x7.

Not that D can't be built around of course. But that's it, you have to build around it with EPT's and Vessery's ability and flying ships that can easily proc his ability with him whereas x7 on any naked Defender is already great.

Amen. I am staggered by how good the simple 28pt x7/delta is...

I like how a thread on Defender counters has devolved into "How can I build Defenders even better?"

It's almost like there is no hope.

No hope at all for the enemies of the empire.

How good is taking some high PS bomb droppers with conners and protons against Defenders?

So it seems the X7 title is popular. No love for the TIE/D?

It has its place but its expensive and in a 100point game the efficiency of a x7 juke is hard to get around. IMHO the D's come into their own in Epic play where they can really dish out damage

Vess as the TIE/D is a lot of points but if you use him with an ion cannon he can be a nightmare. If you have a TL buddy and take a focus like you should be, you can almost always push through that ion token and it's damage. Against a 2 agi ship even with a focus to burn, you've got less than a 10% chance of not hitting them with the ion. With each volley, you're looking at dealing a solid 3 damage. And since that makes your average opponent right think "Oh crap, I better kill him fast!", you can plan your attack around that.

Tie/D and tractor beam is just a waste, I don't really know why people use it. I mean you are basically paying 3 points at the cost of getting a free evade for something that doesn't do damage? It has it's uses, especially against AGI 1 ships, but more often than not you're going to be left wishing you'd dropped the extra 2 more points to get an ion.

While triple x7s is nasty, I like mixing an x7 and D together for a pretty potent combo.

How good is taking some high PS bomb droppers with conners and protons against Defenders?

high ps conners rarely work too well because the action step skip becomes invalidated unless they run over it themselves (ie, no overlap upon deploy)

seismics aided by sabine (Crew), though...yeah that's 1/3rd of a defender gone without the need for any dice rolls

low PS conners also work very decently, same 1/3rd health gone + only an evade at most from x7 + a debilitating white ion move (no x7) the turn after

such bombs devastate aggressors, and Defenders are really no different defensively (well, they have less health...and no thrusters...)

then again, about the only thing bombs suck against is ordnance that'll ruin your carrier (namely Miranda) before you get to do anything too fancy

and Dash, because he will never chase you (the prick), though it's possible to land Advanced SLAM conners on him

Defender counters?

(but don't give yourself away)

The problem with TIE/D is that you typically only get to modify one of the shots, and if you're only going to have one good, modified shot you might as well take x7.

Not that D can't be built around of course. But that's it, you have to build around it with EPT's and Vessery's ability and flying ships that can easily proc his ability with him whereas x7 on any naked Defender is already great.

Predator is very close to mandatory for me on TIE/Ds that aren't Vessery. The modification (or lack thereof) on each shot matters in different ways depending on the target. Because all the 3 point cannons are binary results (miss or hit effects), overkill doesn't help you, so just hitting is enough. Against lower AGI stuff, the 3 dice + predator re-roll is normally enough to hit, on its own giving you the effect, and not benefiting from additional Focus. Against high AGI stuff, this averaging about 2 hits with Predator and no action is can still strip tokens and occasionally hit higher AGI targets.

You end up with some flexibility. If the cannon hitting is the greatest benefit, you power the cannon with Focus. If you're just trying to finish something off (or the cannon already hit), you power the primary shot with Focus. If you're going to take a nasty shot and want to minimize damage (or you didn't need Focus when attacking), you keep it for defense.

could technically put Marksman on there instead of Predator but then you lose defensive focus, which as we all know from the past a defender without evade isnt THAT durable and even worse without a focus.

Marks would mod both attacks, assuming you roll focus results to begin with. Seems like every time i bring it i roll blanks all the **** time lol

could technically put Marksman on there instead of Predator but then you lose defensive focus, which as we all know from the past a defender without evade isnt THAT durable and even worse without a focus.

Marks would mod both attacks, assuming you roll focus results to begin with. Seems like every time i bring it i roll blanks all the **** time lol

Although it's normally discussed on Maarek, Ryad could maybe swing Marksmanship with Experimental Interface for a full joust build. With EI she could get Marksmanship for both attacks, and either a Focus for defense or a Target Lock if she didn't need defense and was just going to try and murder something. 43 points for the Ion Cannon version. I don't know.

The Defender was the first x-wing ship I ever bought. Yes, the first ; I picked up a starter set half an hour later after discussing it with my wife. I'm happy that it's awesome at long, long last.

Biophysical is right, though - x7s are popular, because their tanky nature makes them relatively error-tolerant. TIE/Ds are much more risk-reward - fly them poorly, and they'll evaporate.

But fly them well, and they can annihilate.

Wonder which ones you'll be running in the near future, Bio?

Syndicate Thug (18)
Ion Cannon Turret (5)
Bomb Loadout (0)
Extra Munitions (2)
Conner Net (4)
BTL-A4 Y-Wing (0)

Dace Bonearm (23)
Adaptability (0)
Ion Cannon Turret (5)
Intelligence Agent (1)

Syndicate Thug (18)
Ion Cannon Turret (5)
Bomb Loadout (0)
Extra Munitions (2)
"Genius" (0)
Ion Bombs (2)

Binayre Pirate (12)
Ion Pulse Missiles (3)
Guidance Chips (0)

Total: 100

View in Yet Another Squad Builder

I might need to squeeze in a bit more ion somewhere...

The problem with TIE/D is that you typically only get to modify one of the shots, and if you're only going to have one good, modified shot you might as well take x7.

Not that D can't be built around of course. But that's it, you have to build around it with EPT's and Vessery's ability and flying ships that can easily proc his ability with him whereas x7 on any naked Defender is already great.

probably the best use i got out of tractor beam was abusing the ability to change targets when firing primary weapon.

I threw a bwing that was in my face to the side right into my 4tie swarm. He fired before the ties but after me, he lost his shot on me and i just attacked his HWK that was behind him with my main gun...while the 4ties once their turn came up just devoured this now 0agi bwing lol.

practical? nope. Funny as hell though throwing a bwing to the wolves.

Syndicate Thug (18)

Ion Cannon Turret (5)

Bomb Loadout (0)

Extra Munitions (2)

Conner Net (4)

BTL-A4 Y-Wing (0)

Dace Bonearm (23)

Adaptability (0)

Ion Cannon Turret (5)

Intelligence Agent (1)

Syndicate Thug (18)

Ion Cannon Turret (5)

Bomb Loadout (0)

Extra Munitions (2)

"Genius" (0)

Ion Bombs (2)

Binayre Pirate (12)

Ion Pulse Missiles (3)

Guidance Chips (0)

Total: 100

View in Yet Another Squad Builder

I might need to squeeze in a bit more ion somewhere...

That actually isn't too bad. I think I'd probably drop the Pirate's missile and leave it a dedicated blocker, though, and then spend the extra points elsewhere. Int Agent isn't that much help on a list with only one ps-dependent option (the ion bomb), and there are just so many shiny other picks for that crew slot...

Syndicate Thug (18)

Ion Cannon Turret (5)

Bomb Loadout (0)

Extra Munitions (2)

Conner Net (4)

BTL-A4 Y-Wing (0)

Dace Bonearm (23)

Adaptability (0)

Ion Cannon Turret (5)

Intelligence Agent (1)

Syndicate Thug (18)

Ion Cannon Turret (5)

Bomb Loadout (0)

Extra Munitions (2)

"Genius" (0)

Ion Bombs (2)

Binayre Pirate (12)

Ion Pulse Missiles (3)

Guidance Chips (0)

Total: 100

View in Yet Another Squad Builder

I might need to squeeze in a bit more ion somewhere...

That actually isn't too bad. I think I'd probably drop the Pirate's missile and leave it a dedicated blocker, though, and then spend the extra points elsewhere. Int Agent isn't that much help on a list with only one ps-dependent option (the ion bomb), and there are just so many shiny other picks for that crew slot...

Problem is, too many of the awesome scum crew have antisynergy with Dace's ability. Outlaw Tech and Zuckuss? stress. 4Lom? cant clear stress. Boba? Ion turret cant crit. Bossk prevents Dace from being able to use his ability on the ion turrets of the Ywings.

Gonk is a possibility, as is Dengar. K4 has some synergy with clearing stress every round. And that's about it.