Defender's excel at shrugging off one bad roll. They usually cant do it multiple times. Just like how you deal with aces you need multiple attacks, one or two to burn the tokens then another to actually hit them. Any ship with a focus or evade and 3+ agi is hard to hit as it is let alone if they have both. However 3 agi on its own isnt that dependable.

My defenders never die in a single round even if i roll badly because of those tokens vs how many targets im dealing with. But ive lost them or had them at 1hp by the 2nd round many times. Focus fire, if you cant hit them with more than 1 ship then dont even try unless you dont have another shot. Better range2 or even 3 with no tokens than range1 with both tokens (defender's side)

Thoughts on Dagger B's with FCS, E2 Mod, and Gunner crew?

VERY expensive, and will fold quickly under fire.

Some combo of ATB, homing missiles, bombs would do the trick. How well that would stand up in a tourney environ vs all-comers (everyone else) I dunno

Rebels could try something like this:

Defender Counter (99)

Gold Squadron Pilot (24) - Y-Wing

Autoblaster Turret (2), Bomb Loadout (0), Conner Net (4)

Gold Squadron Pilot (24) - Y-Wing

Autoblaster Turret (2), Bomb Loadout (0), Conner Net (4)

Hera Syndulla (30) - Attack Shuttle

Adaptability (0), Autoblaster Turret (2), Sabine Wren (2), Conner Net (4)

Lieutenant Blount (21) - Z-95 Headhunter

Deadeye (1), Ion Pulse Missiles (3)

You've got a decent chance of having higher PS with both Blount and Hera, so you could land an ion missile. ABTs, conners and Hera could clear one off. Hera and her pilot ability/PS should be able to react to the Defenders pretty well. I dunno, Rebels seem hard pressed against defensers

for 31 points you can fly TAP Inquisitor, cheaper than any cool defender and will do just fine.

I'm curious, why settle for "just fine" when you could fly the pure awesome that is the Defender?

Why settle for either when you could fly both?

Ah the wonderful world of green dice

Realistically speaking, defenders are still easier to hit than palp aces (focus and evade but no thrusters; no palp unless they bring palp ofc) so really dice still work

Otherwise, bombs. Defenders are lower PS and usually don't bring EU, making them easy money for Sabine (bit too much health to go through without Sabine, though).

TLT also works decently (TLt + bombs = Miranda, baby!)

And of course token mitigation is always helpful ala Jax, as mentioned. Wes is also pretty ******* irritating

Mostly, though, you just gotta realize they'll kick your ass in a joust basically Everytime.

Ah the wonderful world of green dice

Realistically speaking, defenders are still easier to hit than palp aces (focus and evade but no thrusters; no palp unless they bring palp ofc) so really dice still work

Otherwise, bombs. Defenders are lower PS and usually don't bring EU, making them easy money for Sabine (bit too much health to go through without Sabine, though).

TLT also works decently (TLt + bombs = Miranda, baby!)

And of course token mitigation is always helpful ala Jax, as mentioned. Wes is also pretty ******* irritating

Mostly, though, you just gotta realize they'll kick your ass in a joust basically Everytime.

Oh my god, stealth device Juke x7 Vessery is hilariously broken in a palp aces list. Good luck ever hitting the bastard lol.

Why settle for either when you could fly both?

There we go.

OGP with Palpatine and FCS

31 point Inquisitor

Vessery with x7, Juke, Stealth Device.

Things that work well against X7 Defenders:

- Ion (to include connor nets, prevents free evade token next turn)

- High PS arc dodgers

- Carnor Jax

- Omega Leader

- Gunner (or IG88B or Tie D title)

- Stressbot

- Rebel captive

- TLT Spam

- Homing Missiles

- Connor Net

- The party bus

Whatever you do, just don't try and joust with them

Things that work well against X7 Defenders:

- Ion (to include connor nets, prevents free evade token next turn)

- High PS arc dodgers

- Carnor Jax

- Omega Leader

- Gunner (or IG88B or Tie D title)

- Stressbot

- Rebel captive

- TLT Spam

- Homing Missiles

- Connor Net

- The party bus

Whatever you do, just don't try and joust with them

Stress bot? Rebel Captive. OH NO NOW WHEN I DO MY 4 WHITE K TURN I /only/ GET AN EVADE AND PROBABLY A TARGET LOCK BECAUSE I'M RUNNING VESSERY.

Turrets can kill them, no Autothrusters. IDK how double Decimator would fare though.

Oh my god, stealth device Juke x7 Vessery is hilariously broken in a palp aces list. Good luck ever hitting the bastard lol.

Have you actually play-tested this build thoroughly, or is this statement based off of a couple of games/theory? My results have been that Juke is not effective on any of the lower PS defenders. In a match against any sort of aces list, you will probably spend your evade token on defense before getting a chance to Juke. There are a lot of meta heavyweights firing before PS6 currently.

On the current list of all things OP, Juke Vessery barely registers.

Things that work well against X7 Defenders:

- Ion (to include connor nets, prevents free evade token next turn)

- High PS arc dodgers

- Carnor Jax

- Omega Leader

- Gunner (or IG88B or Tie D title)

- Stressbot

- Rebel captive

- TLT Spam

- Homing Missiles

- Connor Net

- The party bus

Whatever you do, just don't try and joust with them

Stress bot? Rebel Captive. OH NO NOW WHEN I DO MY 4 WHITE K TURN I /only/ GET AN EVADE AND PROBABLY A TARGET LOCK BECAUSE I'M RUNNING VESSERY.

Turrets can kill them, no Autothrusters. IDK how double Decimator would fare though.

Yes, stress messes with Defenders. Unless you bring the MKII Engines, you are now stuck doing straight maneuvers to clear your stress. With the exception of Vessery, this means you are now throwing unmodified red dice. Good luck getting significant damage in this way. Yes, you have a white K-turn, but a good opponent will also know the 4K is coming and set up for it.

Play me.

In our Spy vs. Spy League (second game you swap lists) I was one shot of the board by Zuckuss. I will forever hang my head in shame.

Last (small) store tournament I did, I didn't see any defenders but I had amazing success with Bossk (VI, Mangler, EU, Zuckuss/4LOM/Dengar) and Kath Scarlett (Slave 1 + Extra Munitions/Proximity Mines, PTL, Recon Spec). Extra dice once everything is behind Kath, plus Bossk can reliably get 3 or 4 hits through against raw defense dice. Didn't lose a single ship in 3 matches, including against a very dangerous elite Crack swarm. If I was to make one change it would be to swap Kath's bombs for an EU for extra maneuverability and repositioning.

I would imagine that this list against Defenders could reliably focus down single ships, but it could also sting quite a bit. Low PS could easily block and defenders pack a lot of punch (plus I have low agility). But I just love the powerhouse that is PS9 Mangler Bossk with his bounty hunter buddies, and I can't move on from my YV-666 + Firespray lists yet.

Another good counter, I'd imagine, is a PTL Kanan-crew Donut Dash. Indeed quite the powerhouse.

Muwhahahahahahahahaha this thread pleases me...despair for the defenderpocolypse has come all your base belong to me.

I've had some good results with Soontir + Inquisitor + Shuttle with a Sensor Jammer.

I can usually focus fire one that is looking to shoot at the shuttle and force them to make some hard decisions with their focus token. Soontir is also not going to get hit unless you play greedy or get bumped, the boosts on Inq and Soontir make it much easier to outmaneuver the defenders. The defenders can hit hard but it still takes a good amount of time to bring down the shuttle.

Play me.

In our Spy vs. Spy League (second game you swap lists) I was one shot of the board by Zuckuss. I will forever hang my head in shame.

You really want lots of dice.

This is unusual, because ordinance lists aside, as of late there's been a move away from Buckets Of Firepower to other options, but Defenders can tank just one or two attackers very well, but die to massed fire. The white K-turn is tricky to keep guns on to pull this off, but that then demands you try to hit and fade rather than get into a K-turn match with them from a simple joust.

They're far from impossible to kill - but nonetheless really good in and of themselves.

Bossk flying his stapler of doom with mangler, Dengar, and EU. BLAMM-OOOO!!!

Having 3 evade dice and 2 tokens is not new...

Block the obvious U-turn.

Thoughts on Dagger B's with FCS, E2 Mod, and Gunner crew?

VERY expensive, and will fold quickly under fire.

I play what I call a Elite-Mini-MidgetPack which is two Bs (Nera and Keyan) with FCS, Proton Torp, Guidance Chip, and Extra Mun and while getting an average of 2 hits 2 crits....well.....it didn't mean anything. Especially an X7 with Palp. But I assume you are way better pilot so I say go for it.

Oh my god, stealth device Juke x7 Vessery is hilariously broken in a palp aces list. Good luck ever hitting the bastard lol.

Have you actually play-tested this build thoroughly, or is this statement based off of a couple of games/theory? My results have been that Juke is not effective on any of the lower PS defenders. In a match against any sort of aces list, you will probably spend your evade token on defense before getting a chance to Juke. There are a lot of meta heavyweights firing before PS6 currently.

On the current list of all things OP, Juke Vessery barely registers.

I've played it a few times. I don't always have to end up spending that evade token. Vessery also doesn't actually need his EPT that much because he gets 3 actions a turn usually already. The Juke evade is just icing on the cake.

You know all of those discussions about how Sensor Jammer is not only a defensive upgrade, but an offensive one because it forces your opponent to spend focus so you can hit into unmodified green dice? Juke works that way too.

It's a great upgrade on Vessery. I don't care how rarely it triggers (it doesn't trigger rarely, mind you) I'm getting it for free on most turns. Ships that fire before me may spend their focus token, chances are they're not going to hit with Palp and focus and stealth device and evade. Then I can juke if I still have my evade.

Juke is one of these cards like Mindlink on Brobots that's in reality very powerful, but people dismiss it because it doesn't have some obvious effect like Predator or PtL.

I get it, you want to metabate. But you're metabating so hard that you're dismissing Juke on a ship that gets a free evade and target lock for free every time it does a /white 4 K-Turn. I'm procing Juke for free every turn, if it triggers once or twice during a match it's a Crackshot pretty much. If it procs more than that, then I'm super benefitting.

Having 3 evade dice and 2 tokens is not new...

Block the obvious U-turn.

On a 6 health ship with a white 4 K-Turn that gets its evade assigned to it for free. That's new.

It's not hard to position such that your 4K-Turn cannot be blocked. Many times it's simply inevitable that I'm going to 4k. You know it's going to happen, but there is nothing you can do about it.

I'm just happy that after all this time we finally have 'how to counter defenders' threads. I remember clearly the days of defenders being considered trash. This warms my cold defender filled heart.

I'm just happy that after all this time we finally have 'how to counter defenders' threads. I remember clearly the days of defenders being considered trash. This warms my cold defender filled heart.

Ya beat me to the punch on that one, is a strange new area we are heading into where threads about Defender counters exist.