Hi all,

Just bought the LOTR LCG Core set. It's my first LCG (and my first cooperative card game) so I'm pretty excited about it. As above: What do you wish you had known when you started that nobody told you (since I'll be the one teaching my friends, it'll be good to be a step ahead) and what's the best thing to get after the core set, if we should decide we like it?

Thanks!

I wish I knew it would be a lot better to show to friends once I had the whole first cycle.

I wish I knew it would be a lot better to show to friends once I had the whole first cycle.

What does the "first cycle" comprise, and what does it change/make better from the core set?

We've played Armada pretty extensively so we know that the core sets are just the start.

Hello and welcome to the game! It's a heck of a lot of fun.

Your question is quite common and has been well answered by this series of articles on Tales from the Cards: https://talesfromthecards.wordpress.com/new-player-guides/

In fact, this section of the article directly addresses your question: https://talesfromthecards.wordpress.com/2013/01/03/5-things-i-wish-i-wouldve-known-when-i-started-playing-lotr-lcg/

Ian's new player guide is very well-written and thoroughly researched - it is a highly recommended read for folks who are just starting off the game and know they are going to get more involved with LOTR:LCG.

Still, each player is likely to have their own unique response to your question. Here are a few of my responses to your question.

1) Most importantly (in my view) - this is a cooperative game in which you will either team with other players or play solo in attempt to succeed against the quest. How you decide to play the game is entirely up to you and your play-group, i.e. how you define "having fun" with LOTR:LCG is your call. If you forget or don't exactly understand how a rule works, don't worry about it. Just enjoy the experience.

2) Owning 2 or more Core sets is not essential - I own 3 Core sets and am happy that I do. That said, you absolutely do not need to shell out more money on additional Core sets. Yes, you will acquire duplicate copies of very powerful cards that come in the Core set such as Unexpected Courage, Steward of Gondor and Test of Will. These cards really help, but you can always proxy them if you want to run them, or play without them and do just fine. The tracking components are really nice, but again there are easy ways to play the game without them. Dice, tokens, pen and paper, etc all let you track information just fine. There are also various computerized versions of the game, too.

3) The community for this game is quite friendly - in my experience the LOTR:LCG community is very friendly, both on-line and in-person. A few people might give you a hard time if you post something they disagree with, but this is rare. Most of the time folks are quite willing to answer questions and give advice on these forums and on Boardgamegeek. My in-person experience has been even better. LOTR:LCG players love this game and want to share that enthusiasm with others they meet at the table.

4) Player cards in the various releases are universally playable in all quests - you may or may not be familiar with the game's various product lines at this point. There are essentially 3 types of product lines for LOTR:LCG: Deluxe expansions and the Adventure Pack Cycles that follow it, Saga expansions, and GenCon/Fellowship quests (these are quests only, no player cards). Player cards can be found in the first two product lines and can be used with any deck against any quest. The only minor exception is that you will find some special cards in the Saga products (Treasures in the Hobbit boxes and Boons/Banes in the Lord of the Rings boxes) that can only be played with those products.

5) Deck-building is necessary to succeed at this game - you can manage to win with the stock, mono-spheres decks in the Core set, but it will be hard and infrequent. This means that you must deck-build to succeed against quests consistently. Presumably you were aware of this when you purchased the game, but some new players are not and may become frustrated when they discover this aspect. In regard to deck-building there are essentially three approaches; one deck to rule them all, quest-specific, and thematic. One deck to rule them all decks are designed to be so powerful such that they can overcome any quest in the game. The game is mature enough now that many cards exist to support this archetype and they do work. Such decks are unquestionably strong and can be fun, but they tend to rely on a number of powerful cards as their foundation. As a result you may find the play-style to become rather stale as you must include these cards in every Rule deck you make. Quest-specific decks consist primarily of cards you identify as critical for beating the quest you are currently playing against. This style of play is not necessary for every quest, but certain quests will make it mandatory (Journey to Rhosgobel is an example). Thematic decks are the last style and are built with cards that follow a certain theme that appeals to you, such as through certain types of creatures or races (i.e. Eagles, Hobbits, Dwarves, Gondor, Rohan, etc) or perhaps match a story theme (Boromir/Faramir/Denethor or Aragorn/Gimli/Legolas as heroes supported by a deck of cards that is thematically consistent with those heroes). Thematic decks could be either a one deck to rule them all or quest-specific.

6) Don't purchase Nightmare decks until you are experienced with the game and own a good-sized card pool - Nightmare decks are existing quests with new cards added to make the quest harder, but also more interesting. Unless you decide to acquire a big collection of player cards quickly or are absolutely certain to collect everything in this game, it's simply not worth it to purchase Nightmare decks until you've played for a while and own a good assortment of cards.

Hello and welcome to the game! It's a heck of a lot of fun.

Your question is quite common and has been well answered by this series of articles on Tales from the Cards: https://talesfromthecards.wordpress.com/new-player-guides/

In fact, this section of the article directly addresses your question: https://talesfromthecards.wordpress.com/2013/01/03/5-things-i-wish-i-wouldve-known-when-i-started-playing-lotr-lcg/

Ian's new player guide is very well-written and thoroughly researched - it is a highly recommended read for folks who are just starting off the game and know they are going to get more involved with LOTR:LCG.

Still, each player is likely to have their own unique response to your question. Here are a few of my responses to your question.

1) Most importantly (in my view) - this is a cooperative game in which you will either team with other players or play solo in attempt to succeed against the quest. How you decide to play the game is entirely up to you and your play-group, i.e. how you define "having fun" with LOTR:LCG is your call. If you forget or don't exactly understand how a rule works, don't worry about it. Just enjoy the experience.

2) Owning 2 or more Core sets is not essential - I own 3 Core sets and am happy that I do. That said, you absolutely do not need to shell out more money on additional Core sets. Yes, you will acquire duplicate copies of very powerful cards that come in the Core set such as Unexpected Courage, Steward of Gondor and Test of Will. These cards really help, but you can always proxy them if you want to run them, or play without them and do just fine. The tracking components are really nice, but again there are easy ways to play the game without them. Dice, tokens, pen and paper, etc all let you track information just fine. There are also various computerized versions of the game, too.

3) The community for this game is quite friendly - in my experience the LOTR:LCG community is very friendly, both on-line and in-person. A few people might give you a hard time if you post something they disagree with, but this is rare. Most of the time folks are quite willing to answer questions and give advice on these forums and on Boardgamegeek. My in-person experience has been even better. LOTR:LCG players love this game and want to share that enthusiasm with others they meet at the table.

4) Player cards in the various releases are universally playable in all quests - you may or may not be familiar with the game's various product lines at this point. There are essentially 3 types of product lines for LOTR:LCG: Deluxe expansions and the Adventure Pack Cycles that follow it, Saga expansions, and GenCon/Fellowship quests (these are quests only, no player cards). Player cards can be found in the first two product lines and can be used with any deck against any quest. The only minor exception is that you will find some special cards in the Saga products (Treasures in the Hobbit boxes and Boons/Banes in the Lord of the Rings boxes) that can only be played with those products.

5) Deck-building is necessary to succeed at this game - you can manage to win with the stock, mono-spheres decks in the Core set, but it will be hard and infrequent. This means that you must deck-build to succeed against quests consistently. Presumably you were aware of this when you purchased the game, but some new players are not and may become frustrated when they discover this aspect. In regard to deck-building there are essentially three approaches; one deck to rule them all, quest-specific, and thematic. One deck to rule them all decks are designed to be so powerful such that they can overcome any quest in the game. The game is mature enough now that many cards exist to support this archetype and they do work. Such decks are unquestionably strong and can be fun, but they tend to rely on a number of powerful cards as their foundation. As a result you may find the play-style to become rather stale as you must include these cards in every Rule deck you make. Quest-specific decks consist primarily of cards you identify as critical for beating the quest you are currently playing against. This style of play is not necessary for every quest, but certain quests will make it mandatory (Journey to Rhosgobel is an example). Thematic decks are the last style and are built with cards that follow a certain theme that appeals to you, such as through certain types of creatures or races (i.e. Eagles, Hobbits, Dwarves, Gondor, Rohan, etc) or perhaps match a story theme (Boromir/Faramir/Denethor or Aragorn/Gimli/Legolas as heroes supported by a deck of cards that is thematically consistent with those heroes). Thematic decks could be either a one deck to rule them all or quest-specific.

6) Don't purchase Nightmare decks until you are experienced with the game and own a good-sized card pool - Nightmare decks are existing quests with new cards added to make the quest harder, but also more interesting. Unless you decide to acquire a big collection of player cards quickly or are absolutely certain to collect everything in this game, it's simply not worth it to purchase Nightmare decks until you've played for a while and own a good assortment of cards.

Thanks for the indepth response. The linked articles are great.

1. We're getting better with this as a play-group since starting Eldritch Horror. We've spent a lot of time with Armada so we're familiar with trying to kill each other, just not as much with trying to help each other.

2. I don't intend on buying a 2nd core set; if one of my friends wants to, mazel tov to them, but there are enough expansions that I think I'll put my resources there.

3. That's true in general for a lot of communities, and particularly for the cooperative-style games: competitive games have friendly players "to a point", then they can fit the stereotype of... well, of miniatures gamers.

4. Cool.

5. Again, coming from Armada, fleet-building is one of my favorite parts of the game. I looked at Netrunner but it seemed a bit too onerous and rules/errata heavy, but I love making and executing a strategy.

6. Cool.

Don't get discouraged by the quests in the Core set. Passage Through Mirkwood is pretty easy, almost a tutorial. Journey Along the Anduin is pretty hard--it really requires you to get good at deck building to beat it, but it's a good challenge. Dol Guldur is really hard; it's balanced more for a 4 player game and it's kind of unfair to one player. As you get expansions, you'll find that quests run the gamut with respect to difficulty.

You might also have an easier time of things if you don't force yourself to build 50 card decks until you have a few more cards. Stick with 30-40 card decks, and work your way up to 50 card "tournament" decks as you buy more expansions.

1) Basically the game gets better when you own more cycles. In some ways the core set alone doesn't fully represent what the game is about.

2) Buy the adventure packs in order (Shadows of Mirkwood, Khazad Dum then onwards)

3) Some people disagree, but its probably better to own a couple of full adventure cycles before buying the Hobbit and Lord of the Rings saga sets. The reason for this is the sagas can be hard without a large card pool.

4) Have fun!

Oh, and watch out for Heirs of Numenor! My wife and I actually quit playing for a few months when we hit that expansion, we were so frustrated. Definitely don't go out and buy it early. Now that the card pool has matured a little, we can go back and appreciate it, but it represents such a paradigm shift from the quests that came before it that it takes a while to figure out how to beat it.

While I agree it is best to get the expansions in order if possible, it can be difficult to find what you want in stock, and the reprints from FFG can take some time. FFG is good about eventually reprinting things though. I did find that some of my local game stores often had a much better selection than what I could order online, and got a lot of "out of print" stuff way.

I wish I knew it would be a lot better to show to friends once I had the whole first cycle.

What does the "first cycle" comprise, and what does it change/make better from the core set?

The first cycle is the core + Mirkwood, second is Khazad-Dûm + Dwarrowdelf and so on.

The 6 packs in the Mirkwood cycle all have SOMETHING that makes your decks nicer, plus a nice dwarf hero. As always recommended, consider each cycle of 7 expansions one unit. FFG design them as such, so the smaller packs include player cards meant to help with the deluxe's quests (or at least fit thematically). I'm not sure if they did it originally from the Mirkwood days, but there's some sort of pattern to the cards, so they planned more than 20 cards at a time.

Each cycle (and saga expansion) technically only requires the core, but in practice you'll probably want as many player cards as possible to stand a fighting chance. The more variety you have, the more different approaches to deckbuilding you can try to tackle a quest. Plain fighting seems to be less favoured than questing, but be prepared for anything (i.e. have all spheres available, or at least enough tricks among what you've got).

While I agree it is best to get the expansions in order if possible, it can be difficult to find what you want in stock, and the reprints from FFG can take some time. FFG is good about eventually reprinting things though. I did find that some of my local game stores often had a much better selection than what I could order online, and got a lot of "out of print" stuff way.

Yeah, it's good to find a few stores to get your games from. I use five regular places which usually get me everything among them. Ordering all of Dwarrowdelf took 4 sources. I also ended up with The Lost Realm as my second deluxe expansion due to it just sitting there in a bargain bin. The player cards in any expansion are always useful though, and that one has a few neat ones. Shame about the two bags of encounter cards I probably won't play for a while.

So is it worth going through first/second/third cycles in order or are there some expansions that are just plain cooler than others that I should spend my money on first?

So is it worth going through first/second/third cycles in order or are there some expansions that are just plain cooler than others that I should spend my money on first?

I would argue that there are a few quests in each cycle that stand out (i.e. Conflict at the Carrock, Shadow and Flame). It must also be admitted that a couple of quests in the first cycle (i.e. Hills of Emyn Muil) are perhaps a little weaker than others. However if you go only for the best quests (and your mileage may vary as to what they are), then you're missing out on character cards that you could use, and even the weaker quests are still good.

Following the above, my recommendation is to try and buy and play them in order for at least the first two cycles.

Half the cards in each pack are useful no matter which quests you play, or at least enough cards that I haven't regretted a single purchase out of the first two cycles. Might as well try the quests included too once you get those. I intend to play in sequence and tweak my deck(s) as needed, then go back to the beginning and see if anything gets easier or harder. Infinite tweak loop ahoy!

Most people are pretty happy playing in order of release. If you aren't on a really tight budget and think you'll probably get everything eventually I don't see any reason to jump around.

Most people are pretty happy playing in order of release. If you aren't on a really tight budget and think you'll probably get everything eventually I don't see any reason to jump around.

And if I am? I also play Armada (among other games) and my wife is patient, but only to a point

Most people are pretty happy playing in order of release. If you aren't on a really tight budget and think you'll probably get everything eventually I don't see any reason to jump around.

And if I am? I also play Armada (among other games) and my wife is patient, but only to a point

GET OUT BEFORE IT'S TOO LATE!

If you're on a budget, you might consider prioritizing some of the Deluxe expansions over the Adventure Packs. Each deluxe comes with 3 quests free of other dependencies, so they extend your play options the quickest. The quests in the Adventure Packs are all tied to a specific Deluxe box, and they expand upon the themes introduced in that box, so if you find a Deluxe box you particularly enjoy you could branch out into its APs for more like it.

Over Hill and Under Hill and The Black Riders, the first boxes of the Hobbit and Lord of the Rings Sagas respectively, contain four heroes instead of the usual two per Deluxe, so they might be a good place to start if you're looking for bang for your buck.

Watch out for Heirs of Numenor, however; when it was first released it was thought by many to be brutal (even unfairly so) and it can turn people off if they're not ready for it. Maybe save that box for when you have a larger pool of player cards to meet it.

If you're on a budget, you might consider prioritizing some of the Deluxe expansions over the Adventure Packs. Each deluxe comes with 3 quests free of other dependencies, so they extend your play options the quickest. The quests in the Adventure Packs are all tied to a specific Deluxe box, and they expand upon the themes introduced in that box, so if you find a Deluxe box you particularly enjoy you could branch out into its APs for more like it.

Over Hill and Under Hill and The Black Riders, the first boxes of the Hobbit and Lord of the Rings Sagas respectively, contain four heroes instead of the usual two per Deluxe, so they might be a good place to start if you're looking for bang for your buck.

Watch out for Heirs of Numenor, however; when it was first released it was thought by many to be brutal (even unfairly so) and it can turn people off if they're not ready for it. Maybe save that box for when you have a larger pool of player cards to meet it.

Thanks. The deluxe Expacs and Saga expacs look like the way to go for us for now to get up to 50 card decks. I'll probably do The Black Riders and The Road Darkens for now, then pick up Khazad-Dum and Over Hill and Under Hill when I get the money.

Thanks for the help!

The only other thing I would suggest is to use http://ringsdb.com/or a spreadsheet or something to keep track of what expansions you have and what you still need. There is a lot of content for the game, and it can be hard to figure out what you need if you are buying things out of order.

If you're on a budget, you might consider prioritizing some of the Deluxe expansions over the Adventure Packs. Each deluxe comes with 3 quests free of other dependencies, so they extend your play options the quickest. The quests in the Adventure Packs are all tied to a specific Deluxe box, and they expand upon the themes introduced in that box, so if you find a Deluxe box you particularly enjoy you could branch out into its APs for more like it.

Over Hill and Under Hill and The Black Riders, the first boxes of the Hobbit and Lord of the Rings Sagas respectively, contain four heroes instead of the usual two per Deluxe, so they might be a good place to start if you're looking for bang for your buck.

Watch out for Heirs of Numenor, however; when it was first released it was thought by many to be brutal (even unfairly so) and it can turn people off if they're not ready for it. Maybe save that box for when you have a larger pool of player cards to meet it.

Thanks. The deluxe Expacs and Saga expacs look like the way to go for us for now to get up to 50 card decks. I'll probably do The Black Riders and The Road Darkens for now, then pick up Khazad-Dum and Over Hill and Under Hill when I get the money.

Thanks for the help!

Sounds like a good plan. The only thing I would note is that The Road Darkens only contains one hero (Gandalf) instead of the usual two, and half of the player cards from that pack only really work when playing with him, so if broadening your player card options is the primary goal it might not be the best choice. That said, he's an interesting hero; he plays really differently from other heroes.

Good luck!

The only other thing I would suggest is to use http://ringsdb.com/or a spreadsheet or something to keep track of what expansions you have and what you still need. There is a lot of content for the game, and it can be hard to figure out what you need if you are buying things out of order.

I use boardgamegeek.com to track my games. I do wish expansions collapsed into their base game in the mobile app, but it's still pretty nice when I'm at the store and want to check if I already have an expansion before buying (particularly Munchkin, where I'm always forgetting which sets I've already purchased!)

If you're on a budget, you might consider prioritizing some of the Deluxe expansions over the Adventure Packs. Each deluxe comes with 3 quests free of other dependencies, so they extend your play options the quickest. The quests in the Adventure Packs are all tied to a specific Deluxe box, and they expand upon the themes introduced in that box, so if you find a Deluxe box you particularly enjoy you could branch out into its APs for more like it.

Over Hill and Under Hill and The Black Riders, the first boxes of the Hobbit and Lord of the Rings Sagas respectively, contain four heroes instead of the usual two per Deluxe, so they might be a good place to start if you're looking for bang for your buck.

Watch out for Heirs of Numenor, however; when it was first released it was thought by many to be brutal (even unfairly so) and it can turn people off if they're not ready for it. Maybe save that box for when you have a larger pool of player cards to meet it.

Thanks. The deluxe Expacs and Saga expacs look like the way to go for us for now to get up to 50 card decks. I'll probably do The Black Riders and The Road Darkens for now, then pick up Khazad-Dum and Over Hill and Under Hill when I get the money.

Thanks for the help!

Sounds like a good plan. The only thing I would note is that The Road Darkens only contains one hero (Gandalf) instead of the usual two, and half of the player cards from that pack only really work when playing with him, so if broadening your player card options is the primary goal it might not be the best choice. That said, he's an interesting hero; he plays really differently from other heroes.

Good luck!

So do you think that it'd be best to get Khazad-Dum first? With Hobbit it feels a little Dwarf Heavy. Thematically I love Gondor but I'm a little bit afraid of Heirs of Numenor for now.

If you're on a budget, you might consider prioritizing some of the Deluxe expansions over the Adventure Packs. Each deluxe comes with 3 quests free of other dependencies, so they extend your play options the quickest. The quests in the Adventure Packs are all tied to a specific Deluxe box, and they expand upon the themes introduced in that box, so if you find a Deluxe box you particularly enjoy you could branch out into its APs for more like it.

Over Hill and Under Hill and The Black Riders, the first boxes of the Hobbit and Lord of the Rings Sagas respectively, contain four heroes instead of the usual two per Deluxe, so they might be a good place to start if you're looking for bang for your buck.

Watch out for Heirs of Numenor, however; when it was first released it was thought by many to be brutal (even unfairly so) and it can turn people off if they're not ready for it. Maybe save that box for when you have a larger pool of player cards to meet it.

Thanks. The deluxe Expacs and Saga expacs look like the way to go for us for now to get up to 50 card decks. I'll probably do The Black Riders and The Road Darkens for now, then pick up Khazad-Dum and Over Hill and Under Hill when I get the money.

Thanks for the help!

Sounds like a good plan. The only thing I would note is that The Road Darkens only contains one hero (Gandalf) instead of the usual two, and half of the player cards from that pack only really work when playing with him, so if broadening your player card options is the primary goal it might not be the best choice. That said, he's an interesting hero; he plays really differently from other heroes.

Good luck!

So do you think that it'd be best to get Khazad-Dum first? With Hobbit it feels a little Dwarf Heavy. Thematically I love Gondor but I'm a little bit afraid of Heirs of Numenor for now.

If Dwarves really aren't your jam, you might be better off sticking with the LotR Saga boxes for a bit--they tend to be less faction-based and more general purpose.

If you're on a budget, you might consider prioritizing some of the Deluxe expansions over the Adventure Packs. Each deluxe comes with 3 quests free of other dependencies, so they extend your play options the quickest. The quests in the Adventure Packs are all tied to a specific Deluxe box, and they expand upon the themes introduced in that box, so if you find a Deluxe box you particularly enjoy you could branch out into its APs for more like it.

Over Hill and Under Hill and The Black Riders, the first boxes of the Hobbit and Lord of the Rings Sagas respectively, contain four heroes instead of the usual two per Deluxe, so they might be a good place to start if you're looking for bang for your buck.

Watch out for Heirs of Numenor, however; when it was first released it was thought by many to be brutal (even unfairly so) and it can turn people off if they're not ready for it. Maybe save that box for when you have a larger pool of player cards to meet it.

Thanks. The deluxe Expacs and Saga expacs look like the way to go for us for now to get up to 50 card decks. I'll probably do The Black Riders and The Road Darkens for now, then pick up Khazad-Dum and Over Hill and Under Hill when I get the money.

Thanks for the help!

Sounds like a good plan. The only thing I would note is that The Road Darkens only contains one hero (Gandalf) instead of the usual two, and half of the player cards from that pack only really work when playing with him, so if broadening your player card options is the primary goal it might not be the best choice. That said, he's an interesting hero; he plays really differently from other heroes.

Good luck!

So do you think that it'd be best to get Khazad-Dum first? With Hobbit it feels a little Dwarf Heavy. Thematically I love Gondor but I'm a little bit afraid of Heirs of Numenor for now.

The early game was pretty Dwarf focused, unfortunately--they're the focus of the Khazad-Dum player cards too. I personally think Khazad-Dum would make a better companion to the Core Set than The Road Darkens, both because the player cards are a little more broadly applicable and because the quests are easier (relatively speaking).

If Dwarves really aren't your jam, you might be better off sticking with the LotR Saga boxes for a bit--they tend to be less faction-based and more general purpose.

Oh, don't worry, they are; Dwarves and Gondor are my two favorite thematically speaking. I just also have to get my wife and friends into the game, and their tastes (wrong though they may be) might vary.

So I wound up getting Khazad-Dum, Over/Under Hill, and Black Riders. I figure with that, the Coreset, and Hunt for Gollum, I'll have plenty to work with for a good long while.

Now I just have to get down the damned Anduin without dying...