So G-8s trigger "before" the Determine Course step (which is the first step in executing a maneuver).

Sooo...ship activates, does some ****, movement comes up...and NOW is the right time to use G-8s, BEFORE the Determine Course step is resolved.

And please, no BS that tries to make BEFORE into some weird WHILE timing. That I don't buy.

Not that I actually advocate the point (I don't), but the whole part about the BEFORE into the WHILE timing is the Word "Resolves".

The word "Resolves" or "Resolved" is not defined by the rulebook, in such the way that BEFORE and WHILE are...

So people took "Resolves" to be "Finishes"... Which turns "BEFORE" it is done into "BEFORE IT FINISHES".

Which is essentially similar to, but not equal to, "WHILE"...

So you may not buy it.

I may not buy it, either.

But because people do buy it, we're waiting a few months.

So G-8s trigger "before" the Determine Course step (which is the first step in executing a maneuver).

Sooo...ship activates, does some ****, movement comes up...and NOW is the right time to use G-8s, BEFORE the Determine Course step is resolved.

And please, no BS that tries to make BEFORE into some weird WHILE timing. That I don't buy.

Not that I actually advocate the point (I don't), but the whole part about the BEFORE into the WHILE timing is the Word "Resolves".

The word "Resolves" or "Resolved" is not defined by the rulebook, in such the way that BEFORE and WHILE are...

So people took "Resolves" to be "Finishes"... Which turns "BEFORE" it is done into "BEFORE IT FINISHES".

Which is essentially similar to, but not equal to, "WHILE"...

So you may not buy it.

I may not buy it, either.

But because people do buy it, we're waiting a few months.

I thought as much - thanks for summing it up so nicely!

Re. "resolve(s)" it's true that it's not defined as such (not like the timing terms are), but it's used pretty consistently throughout the RRG...like under Attack, where is says 'resolve the following steps". And the way it's used...it's pretty much the way you'd expect the English word 'resolve' to be used

So when/while you resolve a step...it's different from BEFORE when/while you resolve a step.

Just sayin...

Argh.... Do you guys mind if I pose some examples?

1) Corvette is at speed 3 with no NAV command or token. Corvette player goes to "Determine course" step, Imperials declare G8, so corvette player has to set their maneuver tool at speed 2. Is this correct?

2) Corvette is at speed 3 with NAV command. Corvette player goes to "Determine course" step, Imperials declare G8 (thus making "temporary" speed 2). Corvette then has the option to change their dial with NAV command to 2, 3 or 4, and set their maneuver tool at speed 1,2 or 3.... Is this correct?

3) OR Corvette is at speed 3 with NAV command. Corvette player goes to "Determine course" step, decides whether they are changing speed, set their speed (either 2, 3 or 4), THEN imperials declare G8, forcing the corvette to set the maneuver tool at one less than the set speed... Is this correct?

So with my new understanding of it, examples one and two are correct, but not three. The Imperial player has to declare whether or not G-8s trigger at the start of the Determine Course step, so you would then get to choose whether or not you're using a Nav token.

Otherwise, they're spot on examples. And for example two, you'll probably want to use a Nav command the following turn to bring your speed back down.

Is there a semblance of agreement here now? Or do we wait another couple of months?

To me it's pretty clear cut:

G-8 Experimental Projector:

Before an enemy ship at distance 1-5 resolves the Determine Course step, you may exhaust this card to temporarily reduce its speed by 1 to a minimum of speed 0 until the end of the maneuver.

Ship Movement

To execute a maneuver with a ship, its owner proceeds through the following steps:

1 . Determine Course: Straighten the maneuver tool, then click the joints of the maneuver tool a number of times in either direction up to the corresponding yaw values indicated on the ship’s speed chart for the current speed. The ship can resolve a NAV command to adjust speed and/or yaw.

Effect Use and Timing

Each effect in the game has a timing during which it can resolve. This timing is usually specified within the effect, though some effects use the more specific timing described in this section.

• A “before” effect occurs immediately before the specified event and cannot occur again for that instance of the event.

So G-8s trigger "before" the Determine Course step (which is the first step in executing a maneuver).

Sooo...ship activates, does some ****, movement comes up...and NOW is the right time to use G-8s, BEFORE the Determine Course step is resolved.

And please, no BS that tries to make BEFORE into some weird WHILE timing. That I don't buy.

It is being questioned, because they could have used "Before an enemy ship at distance 1-5 begins its determine course step, you may exhaust this card to temporarily reduce its speed by 1, to a minimum of 0 until the end of the maneuver."

I am more than happy to wait and see what FFG decide when they clarify this.

So 'before resolves' is different from 'begins'?

Well I suppose I can see a very slight difference. But looking at how the RRG uses resolve I don't think that's the case.

So 'before resolves' is different from 'begins'?

Well I suppose I can see a very slight difference. But looking at how the RRG uses resolve I don't think that's the case.

Dont start this again please!

G8 must occur before the maneuver tool is notched. End of.

So 'before resolves' is different from 'begins'?

Well I suppose I can see a very slight difference. But looking at how the RRG uses resolve I don't think that's the case.

Yes the very definition of the word resolves/d is : to determine a course of action.

Before something begins is before it even starts.

Yes the very definition of the word resolves/d is : to determine a course of action.

Before something begins is before it even starts.

By that logic the card should read "before you determine a course of action". Isn't the whole step about determining a course of action? I mean, it's even called "determine course".

....

Told you.

Yes the very definition of the word resolves/d is : to determine a course of action.

Before something begins is before it even starts.

By that logic the card should read "before you determine a course of action". Isn't the whole step about determining a course of action? I mean, it's even called "determine course".

That is exactly what the card says on it.

Before an enemy ships resolves the Determine course step. = Before you decide on your move and lock the tool in.

Dos this sound right?

I'm playing with my Rebels against my mate Dave's (filthy) imperials. I've activated my AF2 (that's at speed 2) and taken a few pot shots at a random raider...

Me: "Right, where to now then? Hmmm...." (playing with the manuever tool)

Dave eyes his G-8 card, sits back and steeples his fingers, "So, you think you're going to get away do you? Ahahaha!!!"

Me: "Yep, Watch this, I'm at speed 2, so I can get to here (eyballing with the maneuver tool) and out of your front arc"

Dave: "I think not...." and taps his G-8 card, "...all too easy"

Scenario 1: I don't have a Nav Order

Me: "It's a trap!!"

I have to drop my speed and slowly glide past his guns at speed 1 for that turn

Scenario 2: I do have a Nav Order

Me: "Many Bothans died to bring me intelligence about your gravity generators, and I am prepared!" - I spend my Nav order to increase my speed back to 2.

In Scenario 2, I think that this would then mean that the following turn (if nothing else happens) I should now be at speed 3 since the G-8 only temporarily reduces speed.

Correct

Dos this sound right?

I'm playing with my Rebels against my mate Dave's (filthy) imperials. I've activated my AF2 (that's at speed 2) and taken a few pot shots at a random raider...

Me: "Right, where to now then? Hmmm...." (playing with the manuever tool)

Dave eyes his G-8 card, sits back and steeples his fingers, "So, you think you're going to get away do you? Ahahaha!!!"

Me: "Yep, Watch this, I'm at speed 2, so I can get to here (eyballing with the maneuver tool) and out of your front arc"

Dave: "I think not...." and taps his G-8 card, "...all too easy"

Scenario 1: I don't have a Nav Order

Me: "It's a trap!!"

I have to drop my speed and slowly glide past his guns at speed 1 for that turn

Scenario 2: I do have a Nav Order

Me: "Many Bothans died to bring me intelligence about your gravity generators, and I am prepared!" - I spend my Nav order to increase my speed back to 2.

In Scenario 2, I think that this would then mean that the following turn (if nothing else happens) I should now be at speed 3 since the G-8 only temporarily reduces speed.

That seems to be the logical interpretation, yes.

With the release of Wave 4, this thread should be resurrected, as painful as it will be (sorry). Even with a consensus that the G-8 owner can and needs to use it before the tool is locked, we should get an official answer from FFG on these issues. I hope they are answering Wave 3 & 4 questions? All of these questions assume the moving player has a navigation command dial, possibly a Nav token too.

1. Can the G-8 be used up to the point the moving player sets the maneuver tool in the ship?
2. Who decides if they are changing speed first, the moving player or the G-8 player, if both want to see if the other is making a change? The moving player has precedence, but does he have to decide if he will be changing his speed before the G-8 player decide to change the ship's speed? If the moving player decides not change speed, can the G-8 player then decide to change the ship's speed, and after this, can the moving player change his mind and make a speed change, up or down? Wow!!!#$#%!
3. If the moving player's ship is already at max speed (ie, a AF at speed 3), can the moving player increase his temporary speed of 2 that resulted from a G-8 changing it from 3 2?
4. Anything else we're missing?

5)

Its pointless to keep discussing, as its going to be at least 30 days before FFG puts out an FAQ or indeed, even ANSWERS any questions on the New Release Items...

It was debated to death, and we seemed to let entropy tell us that we needed to wait.

Its out now, but we still need to wait.

Is there an official FFG policy not to answer questions until 30-day after a release?

That's been their historical response, yes. It was lots of fun when Rieekan and Instigator first dropped and nobody had a clue how either was supposed to work.

Is there an official FFG policy not to answer questions until 30-day after a release?

Yes.

Is the simple answer not that the player with the G-8 needs to let the other player know that they may use it and so need to know the speed their ship will be going at?

No need for an FAQ, just talk to the other player.

I would think you notch tool, then opponent taps g8, you do one less notch than you would have, overlap tool is ok like a ram... or maybe I just want it to be that way... anyways, can't for the life of me understand releasing content without clarifications, especially since we have been playing with these cards online for some weeks already

Its mostly because they want to gather active feedback before they put out a pronouncement.

Perhaps in the vain hope that we sort things out first... ::shrug::

There're a lot more of us than there are of them, and if there is a way to break the game, we'll generally find it.

It makes decent sense.

So then are we saying that the language was left intentionally vague, or ambiguous, or at the very least up to interpretation, in order to beta test???

So then are we saying that the language was left intentionally vague, or ambiguous, or at the very least up to interpretation, in order to beta test???

We are the playtesters...