ok so play testing table top with proxies and this came up.

I had a markB going SPEED 3. I revealed a maneuver dial , did my 2 attacks, entered the "Determine Course" for my ship

PER THE RR GUIDE

my argument was YES, because we are still in the "Determine Course" step which involves deciding what speed i will be going and clicking my tool back and forth. In essence, i COULD also reduce my speed to 2 ... meaning he set it to 2 using G-8 but i also set it to 2 preparing for next turn for some reason. i don't see why what i explained would be invalid . we played it the opposite way and i think it gives TOO much power to the Interdictor. Especially since i loaded up on maneuver tokens and had General Madine.

This is... An odd one...

Because the Command dial is spent (and resolved):

• Navigate: Resolve during the “Determine Course” step of movement.

Its During the Determine Course.

Whereas G8 is "before it resolves"

So, either one of two situations cooks up:

They have Separate Timings, in which (always), You set your Course, and your Maneuver, and then the Interdictor messes with your Speed...... But you've locked in your maneuver, so if you overlap the tool, you follow the whole "remove the tool, put it on the other side, etc" part of the rules...

OR

They have the same timing.

In which case, the above will apply only if the Interdictor is the Second Player.

If the Interdictor is the first player, then it resolves its slow down before you can elect to Slow down or Speed up yourself..........

...

I don't know which way it is, and will probably have to ruminate on it for a while....

yeah me and friend have been play testing saturday and today. this one had us stumped, i think it goes along the lines of tractor beam, if i have a maneuver dial i counter him , as both my manuver dial speed change and his G-8 speed reduce happen before i click in my tool. I can't find a way it ends good for the Interdictor using G-8

1. I say ok i'll remain at speed 3 , click click this click click that, i go to lock in but before i do he says nope G-8 your going speed 2 now.. but WAIT i haven't clicked in the tool yet !! so i say ok i change my mind since you set me at temp speed of 2 i'll blow/use my maneuver speed change to bump myself back up to 3, he has already exhausted his G-8 card so it is gone..

2. he just comes out right away after i attack and we enter determine course and says he will use G-8 to reduce my speed to 2, i then say i'll use my maneuver dial to bump it back up to speed 3 anyway.

i think you as the interdictor have to gamble on the ship not having a maneuver dial or token. if i had a token i could blow it just like with tractor beams to keep myself at my original speed.

But it does lock you in to having Navigates all the time , which means you're not doing anything else... Since they know, when you reveal your dial, wether you have it or not... Which means they know wether they have a really useful opportunity to spend it or not...

I mean, if you don't have a Token (or its been Tractor'd), and you've got a Squadron command, fair game...

I don't think of it as a Gamble.

I think of it as insurance .

But it does lock you in to having Navigates all the time , which means you're not doing anything else... Since they know, when you reveal your dial, wether you have it or not... Which means they know wether they have a really useful opportunity to spend it or not...

I mean, if you don't have a Token (or its been Tractor'd), and you've got a Squadron command, fair game...

I don't think of it as a Gamble.

I think of it as insurance .

So Drasnighta, i tend to lean on you for rules. i know this one is odd, after presenting my case and evidence, which way are you leaning? meaning if i have Nav dials or tokens i can defend off a G-8 attack to reduce my speed??

It's even more interesting because your speed increase will bring you MarkB to speed 4 once g8 effect is undone.

It's even more interesting because your speed increase will bring you MarkB to speed 4 once g8 effect is undone.

no not at all, the strange issue is that G-8 reduces my speed temporarily to 2 BEFORE i lock in my maneuver tool, SO since i have a maneuver command dial and have NOT locked in my maneuver tool i can declare my final speed, i am still entitled to spend it to increase my speed back to 3. My temp speed got set to 2 so I am using it to bring that temp speed back up to 3 .

"Some Days... I quote Myself...."

This is... An odd one...

...

I don't know which way it is, and will probably have to ruminate on it for a while....

Still trying to parse it in my head... Unfortunately, I am very toddler-distracted at the moment, as my kiddo is unwell.

It's even more interesting because your speed increase will bring you MarkB to speed 4 once g8 effect is undone.

no not at all, the strange issue is that G-8 reduces my speed temporarily to 2 BEFORE i lock in my maneuver tool, SO since i have a maneuver command dial and have NOT locked in my maneuver tool i can declare my final speed, i am still entitled to spend it to increase my speed back to 3. My temp speed got set to 2 so I am using it to bring that temp speed back up to 3 .

But to increase your temporary speed, you must increase your permanent speed.

If a CR90 is speed 3 and starts to move the G8 says drop to speed 2 temporarily. If the CR90 is then allowed to use its Nav token to pop the speed back up to 3 is this temporarily speed 3 and so at the end of the manoeuvre it is now speed 4?

During the "Determine Course" step the rules state

and increase my speed back to 3.

No.

You can increase your dial from speed 3 to speed 4, temporarily travelling at speed 3 because of G8.

Nowhere does it say you can use a nav dial to change your speed temporarily.

and increase my speed back to 3.

No.

You can increase your dial from speed 3 to speed 4, temporarily travelling at speed 3 because of G8.

Nowhere does it say you can use a nav dial to change your speed temporarily.

hmm , def needs to be FAQ'ed. i'm sure when they wrote the original rules they didn't anticipate this and temporary speed change. i think there should def be a way to defend against this G-8 by blowing a maneuver dial or token in some similar fashion to Tractor Beams. if an opponent can "temporarily" reduce my speed, and if i have a maneuver dial/token while we are still in the "Determine Course" step, i should be able to thwart that temporary reduction.

and increase my speed back to 3.

No.

You can increase your dial from speed 3 to speed 4, temporarily travelling at speed 3 because of G8.

Nowhere does it say you can use a nav dial to change your speed temporarily.

hmm , def needs to be FAQ'ed. i'm sure when they wrote the original rules they didn't anticipate this and temporary speed change. i think there should def be a way to defend against this G-8 by blowing a maneuver dial or token in some similar fashion to Tractor Beams. if an opponent can "temporarily" reduce my speed, and if i have a maneuver dial/token while we are still in the "Determine Course" step, i should be able to thwart that temporary reduction.

Nav dial this turn and next turn.

No greater counter needed.

and increase my speed back to 3.

No.

You can increase your dial from speed 3 to speed 4, temporarily travelling at speed 3 because of G8.

Nowhere does it say you can use a nav dial to change your speed temporarily.

hmm , def needs to be FAQ'ed. i'm sure when they wrote the original rules they didn't anticipate this and temporary speed change. i think there should def be a way to defend against this G-8 by blowing a maneuver dial or token in some similar fashion to Tractor Beams. if an opponent can "temporarily" reduce my speed, and if i have a maneuver dial/token while we are still in the "Determine Course" step, i should be able to thwart that temporary reduction.

Nav dial this turn and next turn.

No greater counter needed.

i don't follow you ?

sorry was at dentist office didn't have time to digest. yeah ROTFL that is not a counter that is a total waste . if what you suggest can't stop G-8 then it is not a counter to begin with .

Yeah, you can't counter G-8 directly. If you're already at max speed, you actually can't counter it at all. G-8 does not affect your dial, so that stays the same. It actually has nothing to do with when it happens.

In your example, nothing can protect you from the effects of G-8. G-8 temporarily reduces your speed, but doesn't change your dial. A Nav command increases or decreases the speed on your dial. Since that hasn't been changed, and you're already going max speed, there's nothing you can do.

Now, if you were going Speed 2, you'd be all set. You and your opponent can have a bit of a stand off over the G-8 trigger. You flip a Nav dial, declare you're going to use it, then determine course. If they wait until you adjust the maneuver tool just so, then interrupt the transition between Determine Course and Move Ship, the Determine Course Step has not "resolved", therefore you can use your Nav command to adjust the speed on your dial to 3, so your speed is temporarily reduced to 2. You'll need a Nav command next turn, though, or you'll be moving speed 3.

MS-1 Ion Batteries are the direct counter. Crit effect exhausts a card of choice.

Other than that, theyve taken a hundred point ship for this effect, why would there need to be a counter. You probably have more firepower.

I would argue that since the "Before" on the card is related to the resolution of the Determine Course step, that it happens last before the ship is moved.

If the defender has ample opportunity to still do whatever they want during the Determine Course step then the trigger for G-8 should be "during the Determine Course step", not "Before it resolves", right?

If it's explicitly before it resolves (it is), shouldn't G-8 hit before any piece of the Determine Course Step does? Meaning the entirety of Determine Course happens after G-8? Still not sure if that answers the question at hand, though.

G-8 is happening temporarily before the navigation dial is used, so there's no reason you can't then speed it back up permanently to speed 3. In this case, we're just changing the time when that temporary change would end. The speed would go back to its normal value after the determine Course step, the Navigation just changes that to during the step itself.

The only difference between this and other instances of temporarily reducing speed is that there is no precedent for temporarily reducing speed when you could legally place a model in that location.

G-8 is happening temporarily before the navigation dial is used, so there's no reason you can't then speed it back up permanently to speed 3. In this case, we're just changing the time when that temporary change would end. The speed would go back to its normal value after the determine Course step, the Navigation just changes that to during the step itself.

The only difference between this and other instances of temporarily reducing speed is that there is no precedent for temporarily reducing speed when you could legally place a model in that location.

If your going max speed on the dial you cannot increase your speed regardless of your actually moving that fast or not

Can you use the Nav command or token to change speed the same way after the G8?

e.g. CR90 travelling speed 4 thinking about its yaw turns when the G8 slows it to speed 3, so the CR90 says "in that case I will spend the token to go even slower", so it moves as though speed 2. Then I assume its speed increases again to 3 as the G8 change was only temporary.

Can you use the Nav command or token to change speed the same way after the G8?

e.g. CR90 travelling speed 4 thinking about its yaw turns when the G8 slows it to speed 3, so the CR90 says "in that case I will spend the token to go even slower", so it moves as though speed 2. Then I assume its speed increases again to 3 as the G8 change was only temporary.

That should be the case.