Home one garbage. Liberty new hotness. If a ship can't run gunnery team it's not worth running.

The top two lists at nationals disagree with you

Also there were no flying poops at the final table.

No need to be hostile... The contention point was "if it can't run gunnery team its not worth running..."

Plenty of useful ships that can't run Gunnery Team, since there's only 1 Rebel that can at this point in time.

Au contraire, Dras: there's 2 reb ships that can run gunnery teams. That said, both ships are in a position where gunnery teams aren't necessarily the default choice (OE on the MC30 and FC on the RAF are great options).

That said, if we revise that statement and say that 'if a ship doesn't have Weapon Teams then it's not worth running' you still have to contend with the prominance and damage spat out by CR-90's. Would it be fair to say that at this stage in the game, TRC90's are definitely a 'thing' worth running?

Weapon Teams are a very powerful slot, and the Liberty can really be souped up as a weapon's platform given all those scary shooty-slots. The existing HMC's seem to have done fine without it, they just need more fine tuning with regards to their upgrades and missions to bring out the shine. Thus, I categorically disagree with Buddyfett on all counts; there's too much Granny Wendy rhetoric in that sales pitch to hook me, and I'm already in the pro-Liberty camp.

I iwll stand corrected, I always forget about the Mc30....

... but still, immediately discounting the Corvette because it can't take Gunnery Teams seems like a mistake based on records.

I iwll stand corrected, I always forget about the Mc30....

... but still, immediately discounting the Corvette because it can't take Gunnery Teams seems like a mistake based on records.

that's because it is a mistake

I think what he was trying to say was that a super expensive ship without gunnery teams is not worth taking

which, honestly, I sorta agree with since it's my biggest problem with the wingless turd. It's got the battery armaments to be scary, but without gunnery team it's missing out on a lot of offensive power which makes it very difficult to include in lists unless you're godlike at double-arcing opponents (or want Home One)

the winged turd won't suffer from this problem, and cheap ships like the cr90 don't really care because you get 2/3 of them for the price of a bigger ship anyway

or Demolisher because of it shenanigans, and also because close range gunnery teams is a VERY optimistic prospect

it's missing out on a lot of offensive power which makes it very difficult to include in lists unless you're godlike at double-arcing opponents (or want Home One)

or Indy or Defiance. All three of the MC80 titles are quite different, but quite good, and all three crank up your offense several notches in their own way.

And double-arcing most opponents with the MC80 is not terribly difficult. It's tough to do it at range, sure, but I rarely want that thing at range anyway. Slap Engine Techs on her and find a reliable way to nav when you need it and double-arc at will. I pulled a last-first 180 with Defiance to turn the tables on a Raider blockade at a tournament the other day--these things get mind-blowingly bendy if you build them to be.

it's missing out on a lot of offensive power which makes it very difficult to include in lists unless you're godlike at double-arcing opponents (or want Home One)

or Indy or Defiance. All three of the MC80 titles are quite different, but quite good, and all three crank up your offense several notches in their own way.

And double-arcing most opponents with the MC80 is not terribly difficult. It's tough to do it at range, sure, but I rarely want that thing at range anyway. Slap Engine Techs on her and find a reliable way to nav when you need it and double-arc at will. I pulled a last-first 180 with Defiance to turn the tables on a Raider blockade at a tournament the other day--these things get mind-blowingly bendy if you build them to be.

Tantive 4 = token on command. Defiance = rewards for activating later. Tantive 4 Nav Token + Engine Tech Defiance = Face melting amount of firepower delivered exactly where you need it.

it's missing out on a lot of offensive power which makes it very difficult to include in lists unless you're godlike at double-arcing opponents (or want Home One)

or Indy or Defiance. All three of the MC80 titles are quite different, but quite good, and all three crank up your offense several notches in their own way.

And double-arcing most opponents with the MC80 is not terribly difficult. It's tough to do it at range, sure, but I rarely want that thing at range anyway. Slap Engine Techs on her and find a reliable way to nav when you need it and double-arc at will. I pulled a last-first 180 with Defiance to turn the tables on a Raider blockade at a tournament the other day--these things get mind-blowingly bendy if you build them to be.

Tantive 4 = token on command. Defiance = rewards for activating later. Tantive 4 Nav Token + Engine Tech Defiance = Face melting amount of firepower delivered exactly where you need it.

Yup, this + Leia was exactly how I ran it, then just stacked CF.

I iwll stand corrected, I always forget about the Mc30....

... but still, immediately discounting the Corvette because it can't take Gunnery Teams seems like a mistake based on records.

that's because it is a mistake

I think what he was trying to say was that a super expensive ship without gunnery teams is not worth taking

which, honestly, I sorta agree with since it's my biggest problem with the wingless turd. It's got the battery armaments to be scary, but without gunnery team it's missing out on a lot of offensive power which makes it very difficult to include in lists unless you're godlike at double-arcing opponents (or want Home One)

the winged turd won't suffer from this problem, and cheap ships like the cr90 don't really care because you get 2/3 of them for the price of a bigger ship anyway

or Demolisher because of it shenanigans, and also because close range gunnery teams is a VERY optimistic prospect

Exactly. If I've only got one 8+ die shot with my 170 point ship the defender gets to spend all their lovely defence tokens and all of a sudden I've only put 2 damage on the arc I want to wreck.

I iwll stand corrected, I always forget about the Mc30....

... but still, immediately discounting the Corvette because it can't take Gunnery Teams seems like a mistake based on records.

that's because it is a mistake

I think what he was trying to say was that a super expensive ship without gunnery teams is not worth taking

which, honestly, I sorta agree with since it's my biggest problem with the wingless turd. It's got the battery armaments to be scary, but without gunnery team it's missing out on a lot of offensive power which makes it very difficult to include in lists unless you're godlike at double-arcing opponents (or want Home One)

the winged turd won't suffer from this problem, and cheap ships like the cr90 don't really care because you get 2/3 of them for the price of a bigger ship anyway

or Demolisher because of it shenanigans, and also because close range gunnery teams is a VERY optimistic prospect

Exactly. If I've only got one 8+ die shot with my 170 point ship the defender gets to spend all their lovely defence tokens and all of a sudden I've only put 2 damage on the arc I want to wreck.

Well usually I use the MC80 to mop up enemy ships after they have been attacked by my MC30's, there is not much shields left after the MC30's have been there first.

Its all about co-op between the ships and squadrons you have in your fleet.

Thinking along the lines that one ship should do everything by itself kind of limits your options.

I iwll stand corrected, I always forget about the Mc30....

... but still, immediately discounting the Corvette because it can't take Gunnery Teams seems like a mistake based on records.

that's because it is a mistake

I think what he was trying to say was that a super expensive ship without gunnery teams is not worth taking

which, honestly, I sorta agree with since it's my biggest problem with the wingless turd. It's got the battery armaments to be scary, but without gunnery team it's missing out on a lot of offensive power which makes it very difficult to include in lists unless you're godlike at double-arcing opponents (or want Home One)

the winged turd won't suffer from this problem, and cheap ships like the cr90 don't really care because you get 2/3 of them for the price of a bigger ship anyway

or Demolisher because of it shenanigans, and also because close range gunnery teams is a VERY optimistic prospect

Exactly. If I've only got one 8+ die shot with my 170 point ship the defender gets to spend all their lovely defence tokens and all of a sudden I've only put 2 damage on the arc I want to wreck.

Gunnery teams doesn't really fix that scenario though. Gunnery teams just means you would just shoot again and do that to a completely different ship.

If there's another good ship in target range on that same particular arc. Not impossible with an MC80, naturally, but I don't think it's a required slot. Again, I'd contend that something like an ISD-I is a pretty great platform and gunnery team isn't remotely an auto-include on it either.

Would I like it if my MC80 had a Weapon's Team slot? Yes, yes I would. Do I ignore the MC80's because they don't have it? Nope. For the LMC I sorta want gunnery teams so I can drown my opponent in leading shot Reds and let the rest of the fleet clean up after the block-headed Mon Cal Kamikaze... heh, Red Menace. Think I got my next LMC name.