So I'm writing this topic because I'm perplexed (and maybe a tinge bored).

I LOVED the Liberty class MC80 when I was play testing it to make a list. But I've yet to like ANY Home One MC80 build I've tried. WHAT GIVES!?!?

I don't know, is it the big juicy front arc and gunnery teams? Is it the fact that 7 die is 10pts cheaper than 6 die? I know I know, the defensive mods that keep your ship alive... hooey! I think that under some conditions it really doesn't matter much if you've got them, the ship killers can take out either if they hit them right. I just can't put my finger on it, but the Home One variety feels substandard vs the Liberty. It just seemed to put more consistent damage out that it didn't matter if it died a turn earlier than a Home One, it did the same, if not more work.

Anybody else have the same feelings? I'm totally open to some discussion on this!

Not excited about the Liberty at all...

If I wanted a Go-it-Alone, Front Arc'd, Gunnery Teaming Ship... I'd be playing Imperials... The gimmick of the twin turbolasers as me thinking things on occasion, but really, its just not grabbing me...

while I don't think they are costed inappropriately I decided a while ago that hinge one doesn't work in 400 points very often. It differs a bit from what the interdictor is doing to imps in that it is a better support ship than a fighting ship but it costs to much to do that effectively. While I don't think either are unplayable buy any means they just don't work as often as other things

Home One gets a bad rep from a lot of people for speed 2. Ironically, a lot of people don't go above speed 2 anyway because they don't wanna overshoot (at least in my experience). Home One just reaches that cost point that you really need to invest in it to get anything good out of it. In its basest form, 10 points gets you better durability, almost the same firepower except out of easier to use side arcs, longer range AA, and better squad command. To get really good with Home One though you have to use Engine Techs, which pushes that point cost up even more and and its tough to get the best use out of it on a large base, but a Home One with Engine Techs is more maneuverable than base speed 3 AFII. You figure out how to make Home One dance and most people will curse your name.

I couldn't be happier about the Liberty, it's the ship that I dearly wanted for the Rebels. I'm fine with a strong broadside presence, but I want something that gives me more options than, "Shoot from the side and run away reaaaaally really fast!" Le Liberté is a fast battle cruiser with good positional guns that can take care of itself with minimal investment. It doesn't necessarily need to load itself up, but it can if it wants too. I like the Defiance MC80C as an anchor, it lasts for a long time, but I do feel constrained by its slow speed and relatively one-note nature melded with the need for a lot of upgrades to get the most out of it.

That said, the Liberty with just a gunnery team is enough to contend with some Imperial shots up front and draw fire while the rest of the Rebel fleet positions itself. Because its attack vector is different from the majority of the rebel fleet, it can set up some more interesting shots The Liberty looks a lot like a bully, it can threaten a lot of smaller Rebel and Imperial ships, but it's probably not going to stand up to anything that's not on its own terms. it's a strong actor with gravitas, thus it can't be ignored. Yet, the Liberty80 doesn't have to be the show stealing diva that the H1 MC80c requires, in order to be useful. 96 points isn't much more than upgrading the MK.II the way I like it.

Yeah, im not a fan of the MC80 H1

Liberty looks interesting

I've gotten a lot of usage out of the MC80 in both Assault and Command variants. If you fly it well, it is a pretty tough ship to bring down. And lasting one turn longer is pretty significant in terms of overall total damage output.

I don't know if it is because I came in after wave 2 or because it was the first rebel ship I bought after the core set, but I like the MC80 Home One. I think the defiance title is really strong and can add some extra power, which it really needs at times. I also like the Independence title in a B-Wing bombing list. It can really help the the B-wings be more effective. I ran a modified version of Thruthiness' Rieekan bomber list and I dominated the one and only casual tournament I played in. I practiced it a lot, but I think if you really want it the Home One variety to work in a list it can.

I like the liberty and I think it will work nicely into the rebels, but like all ships I think there will be a learning curve.

Aye ISD-II, the H1 MC80 is maneuverable and fast-ish but you have to have a way to keep your foot on the gas. That's partially my problem with it, it's the diva that needs support or it needs to be a bit fat to make sure it works. The Liberty can be lean and still work pretty well. Sure, it can take advantage of a lot of shinies but I don't feel like there's much that I need to give it to make that platform work.

I have found that Defiance HMC's are something of an assassin ship, lining up dual arc shots on an opponent and really brutalizing them. And to that end, the HMC can jink and juke remarkably well in a tight spot while the LMC is faster but slow on the turn. That's not always an issue bit it certainly can be. The HMC has a nice heel turn and it can really take a beating, especially that HMCA while the LMC can joust and run which I feel is something it might need to avoid being atomized by return fire on its paper-thin flanks and aft. The Independence HMC is fantastic and is likely going to be even better given the usefulness of FCT. The Home One HMC is something of a prima donna and I'm not sure what to think of it (though with the new quad-cannons, I can imagine). They're both good, but good for what is really the question.

On a semi related note, have we found our naming convention to differentiate the two yet?

I sat down and thought it out...

And I figured out why the Liberty isn't doing it for me........

(And this is purely personal, and shows a bit of how my head works.......)

....

A 105pt Liberty (Liberty + Gunnery Teams) is almost entirely equivelant to 2x Neb-Bs at 102pts...

... Both throw a combination of around 6-8 dice (reds and blues vs all reds)
... Both have Speed 3 with Engine Techs if they want it.
... Both have 2-4 Squadron activation

... Both can shoot two targets... (either through GT, or the fact that you're two ships...)

... Both have 2 Braces, and a buttload of shields up front (5 vs 3+3)..
... both are stupid fragile on the side (2 vs 1+1)

I think, if anything, the liberty is a touch more survivable with the redirect, but that's countered by the Evades...

If anything the Liberty is more straightforward, but the Nebulon is two activations....

>>>> At least, in my head, that's why I'm not liking the Liberty... I'm not feeling like they open up much new ground that I wasn't already doing.....

Aye ISD-II, the H1 MC80 is maneuverable and fast-ish but you have to have a way to keep your foot on the gas. That's partially my problem with it, it's the diva that needs support or it needs to be a bit fat to make sure it works. The Liberty can be lean and still work pretty well. Sure, it can take advantage of a lot of shinies but I don't feel like there's much that I need to give it to make that platform work.

I have found that Defiance HMC's are something of an assassin ship, lining up dual arc shots on an opponent and really brutalizing them. And to that end, the HMC can jink and juke remarkably well in a tight spot while the LMC is faster but slow on the turn. That's not always an issue bit it certainly can be. The HMC has a nice heel turn and it can really take a beating, especially that HMCA while the LMC can joust and run which I feel is something it might need to avoid being atomized by return fire on its paper-thin flanks and aft. The Independence HMC is fantastic and is likely going to be even better given the usefulness of FCT. The Home One HMC is something of a prima donna and I'm not sure what to think of it (though with the new quad-cannons, I can imagine). They're both good, but good for what is really the question.

On a semi related note, have we found our naming convention to differentiate the two yet?

I propose "MC Homey" for Home One...or just "Homey" or "Homer."

I sat down and thought it out...

And I figured out why the Liberty isn't doing it for me........

(And this is purely personal, and shows a bit of how my head works.......)

....

A 105pt Liberty (Liberty + Gunnery Teams) is almost entirely equivelant to 2x Neb-Bs at 102pts...

... Both throw a combination of around 6-8 dice (reds and blues vs all reds)

... Both have Speed 3 with Engine Techs if they want it.

... Both have 2-4 Squadron activation

... Both can shoot two targets... (either through GT, or the fact that you're two ships...)

... Both have 2 Braces, and a buttload of shields up front (5 vs 3+3)..

... both are stupid fragile on the side (2 vs 1+1)

I think, if anything, the liberty is a touch more survivable with the redirect, but that's countered by the Evades...

If anything the Liberty is more straightforward, but the Nebulon is two activations....

>>>> At least, in my head, that's why I'm not liking the Liberty... I'm not feeling like they open up much new ground that I wasn't already doing.....

One other thing, it is 8 hull for the liberty and 5+5 for your two nebs.

Aye ISD-II, the H1 MC80 is maneuverable and fast-ish but you have to have a way to keep your foot on the gas. That's partially my problem with it, it's the diva that needs support or it needs to be a bit fat to make sure it works. The Liberty can be lean and still work pretty well. Sure, it can take advantage of a lot of shinies but I don't feel like there's much that I need to give it to make that platform work.

I have found that Defiance HMC's are something of an assassin ship, lining up dual arc shots on an opponent and really brutalizing them. And to that end, the HMC can jink and juke remarkably well in a tight spot while the LMC is faster but slow on the turn. That's not always an issue bit it certainly can be. The HMC has a nice heel turn and it can really take a beating, especially that HMCA while the LMC can joust and run which I feel is something it might need to avoid being atomized by return fire on its paper-thin flanks and aft. The Independence HMC is fantastic and is likely going to be even better given the usefulness of FCT. The Home One HMC is something of a prima donna and I'm not sure what to think of it (though with the new quad-cannons, I can imagine). They're both good, but good for what is really the question.

On a semi related note, have we found our naming convention to differentiate the two yet?

I propose "MC Homey" for Home One...or just "Homey" or "Homer."

Homey and Libby cruiser. Haha

Maybe we can make a "Homey don't play that" list.

I sat down and thought it out...

And I figured out why the Liberty isn't doing it for me........

(And this is purely personal, and shows a bit of how my head works.......)

....

A 105pt Liberty (Liberty + Gunnery Teams) is almost entirely equivelant to 2x Neb-Bs at 102pts...

... Both throw a combination of around 6-8 dice (reds and blues vs all reds)

... Both have Speed 3 with Engine Techs if they want it.

... Both have 2-4 Squadron activation

... Both can shoot two targets... (either through GT, or the fact that you're two ships...)

... Both have 2 Braces, and a buttload of shields up front (5 vs 3+3)..

... both are stupid fragile on the side (2 vs 1+1)

I think, if anything, the liberty is a touch more survivable with the redirect, but that's countered by the Evades...

If anything the Liberty is more straightforward, but the Nebulon is two activations....

>>>> At least, in my head, that's why I'm not liking the Liberty... I'm not feeling like they open up much new ground that I wasn't already doing.....

That is a really interesting way of looking at it.

One other thing, it is 8 hull for the liberty and 5+5 for your two nebs.

But the Leading Shots you get can save those dog shots your Nebs put out.

I'll take Homer and Libby, but anything longer feels o' so slow in this information age! What with all the Neb, TRC, GSD, ISDII, and the hippin' and the hoppin'....

That's an interesting thought Dras, though to me it's more about Gunnery Team ISD's = 2 hurt/dead Nebs, early loss of combat effectiveness. Nothing concrete, and I like the notion. I've seen a lot of my Nebulon B's always -just- die to that last ram or one frustrating little poke from a tie fighter squadron while it was running away with full fore and aft shields.

Not excited about the Liberty at all...

If I wanted a Go-it-Alone, Front Arc'd, Gunnery Teaming Ship... I'd be playing Imperials... The gimmick of the twin turbolasers as me thinking things on occasion, but really, its just not grabbing me...

Defiance is definitely more my style!

But the Leading Shots you get can save those dog shots your Nebs put out.

And I've got two sets of TRCs and the Evades to use 'em!

But the Leading Shots you get can save those dog shots your Nebs put out.

And I've got two sets of TRCs and the Evades to use 'em!

I've done that. It's satisfying.

But yes, there's no point endlessly debating minutae of upgrades and effectiveness... It was just, a bit of a realisation as to why I didn't immediately jump on it....

The Corvette, the Nebulon, the AFMK-Ii and the Home One Expansion, all contain variously different ships and combinations... Even if you try to lump the AFMK-II and the Home One in the same classification of "broadside" ship, you're still stymied by the fact that they have vastly different combinations of dice, speed, hull, shields and upgrades....

Maybe its because I've always liked using Nebulons...

So something that takes a little away from Nebulons, in my mind, is anathaema, and I avoided it.

I sat down and thought it out...

And I figured out why the Liberty isn't doing it for me........

(And this is purely personal, and shows a bit of how my head works.......)

....

A 105pt Liberty (Liberty + Gunnery Teams) is almost entirely equivelant to 2x Neb-Bs at 102pts...

... Both throw a combination of around 6-8 dice (reds and blues vs all reds)

... Both have Speed 3 with Engine Techs if they want it.

... Both have 2-4 Squadron activation

... Both can shoot two targets... (either through GT, or the fact that you're two ships...)

... Both have 2 Braces, and a buttload of shields up front (5 vs 3+3)..

... both are stupid fragile on the side (2 vs 1+1)

I think, if anything, the liberty is a touch more survivable with the redirect, but that's countered by the Evades...

If anything the Liberty is more straightforward, but the Nebulon is two activations....

>>>> At least, in my head, that's why I'm not liking the Liberty... I'm not feeling like they open up much new ground that I wasn't already doing.....

My thoughts were

1. weak double arc

2. no defensive retrofit

3. not a fan of black black AA, much prefer UU or UB

4. poor maneuverability unless geared towards

That said... i think its a fine ship and it will do well, but personally, would rather have Defiance

I'm not sure... I can see a place for both variants.

The combination that I'm most excited to experiment with is:

MC-80 Command Cruiser w/ Flight Controller teams, Expanded hanger bay, and maybe Flight Commander.

I want to run a list with both MC80 variants. Using the liberty to run straight at the enemy while home one is used to hem them in with its huge broadside. Don't know how it will work, but I think it would be fun.

I want to run a list with both MC80 variants. Using the liberty to run straight at the enemy while home one is used to hem them in with its huge broadside. Don't know how it will work, but I think it would be fun.

I'm thinking the ET's will be more important OR you'll want to bid for 2nd with "Come at me brah" objectives. But that same thought crossed my mind.

I have the same problem with Home one style ships as I have with the VSD and B wings speed 2 sucks. in a speed 3 plus world

I have the same problem with Home one style ships as I have with the VSD and B wings speed 2 sucks. in a speed 3 plus world

One of the things I'm surprised nobody else seems to have noticed is that it appears that once upon a time during playtesting the MC80 Home One Assault Cruiser had speed 3. It was presumably dropped, but you can still see the evidence under the speed 3 nav chart - the top box is shaded in red, which is done only in columns with white boxes (where the bottom 3 boxes would all have been white).

Of course nowadays that hardly matters really, but it always seemed kind of curious to me.

Regarding the MC80 Liberty chassis, making the nav chart work for you is going to take some doing, I think. Crix Madine, Nav Teams, something. Getting your arcs lined up wrong against enemy ships is going to be punishing, and the thing handles like an overfull grocery cart and generally wants to be speed 3 or speed 1 (sometimes I think Ozzel might be better appreciated as a Rebel, on a side note), whereas ISDs and MC80 Home One chassis have more user-friendly base nav charts. The main upside is the MC80 Liberty doesn't suffer from piddly ships blocking its front arc like the MC80 Home One does - that's exactly where it would prefer them to be.